Van's Air Force
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What to ask/look for when buying an engine
- Thread starter jtrollin
- Start date
Radomir
Well Known Member
You know what they say about something that looks too good to be true 
Since this guy is in aviation business, I'd think he fully well knows what's market value of a zero-time fresh overhaul IO-540 is. It ain't 15k (it's more than that)...
Is there a paperwork trail for any of the work/overhaul?
Everything's possible, but I'd simply be extra careful or you may end up with a 15k boat anchor.
Since this guy is in aviation business, I'd think he fully well knows what's market value of a zero-time fresh overhaul IO-540 is. It ain't 15k (it's more than that)... Is there a paperwork trail for any of the work/overhaul?
Everything's possible, but I'd simply be extra careful or you may end up with a 15k boat anchor.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
Last edited:
I am going to take it apart anyway
The reason I do not want a new engine (other than cost) is that I want to rebuild the engine myself and get a better understanding of how it all works together. They guy said he has 15 other O/IO 540s but can't find anyone that has dealt with him before or the overhaul shop.
He was going to send me a list of parts that were replaced and if they are new parts or yellow tagged.
The reason I do not want a new engine (other than cost) is that I want to rebuild the engine myself and get a better understanding of how it all works together. They guy said he has 15 other O/IO 540s but can't find anyone that has dealt with him before or the overhaul shop.
He was going to send me a list of parts that were replaced and if they are new parts or yellow tagged.
paper work
My used lycoming has turned out (so far) to be very solid.
I think I got lucky. It could have just as easily turned out to be a disaster.
The engine came with excellent paper work; logs, overhaul receipts, AD compliance info, etc.
I think all the paperwork increased my chances of at least knowing what I had.
Get all the documentation you can and "roll the dice" if you feel lucky.
Dave
-9A flying
My used lycoming has turned out (so far
) to be very solid.I think I got lucky. It could have just as easily turned out to be a disaster.
The engine came with excellent paper work; logs, overhaul receipts, AD compliance info, etc.
I think all the paperwork increased my chances of at least knowing what I had.
Get all the documentation you can and "roll the dice" if you feel lucky.
Dave
-9A flying
used engine here
bought off ebay, said to be rebuilt. Had to tear it down, that is another story, did most of the work myself, with the guidance of a good friend, and a IA helping with the critical stuff, was in great shape, rebuilt as said, all totalled, I have right about 12K into the engine, 0 SMOH, 166 STOH, Narrow-Deck 0-360 A1A converted to A2A, since then I have put almost 85 (knock on wood) trouble free hours. Could easily have gone the other way, but worked out great, saved a ton, and most importantly, LEARNED ALOT.
Randy
8A
bought off ebay, said to be rebuilt. Had to tear it down, that is another story, did most of the work myself, with the guidance of a good friend, and a IA helping with the critical stuff, was in great shape, rebuilt as said, all totalled, I have right about 12K into the engine, 0 SMOH, 166 STOH, Narrow-Deck 0-360 A1A converted to A2A, since then I have put almost 85 (knock on wood) trouble free hours. Could easily have gone the other way, but worked out great, saved a ton, and most importantly, LEARNED ALOT.
Randy
8A
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
My story parallels this one, and I know the components inside my engine were properly overhauled/inspected/etc.
flaglerairexchange
Member
Well Guys I own Flagler Air Exchange, Inc. I have been in business with my father for over 15 yrs (Command Aircraft Parts & Recovery, Inc)... My father has moved on & no longer wants to do aircraft salvage, parts, etc.... So I'm now on my own,,,,
This engine we are talking about for 15K was a smoking deal.... I just wanted to move it fast.. No worries now because I'm going to ask $22,500 which is what its really worth...
(IO 540 C4B5, Std/Std solid flange crank tagged, ovh cam, narrow deck case, Six new superior Millennium cylinders, new rod bolts, new bearings, etc.
I don't cut any corners!
Here's why I could sell it for 15K for all you experts out there...
I bought 2 hangars full or parts & the six new Superior Cylinders came from that deal. I already had a IO-540 C4B5 case, sump, crank, Rod, & Cam. (I have been parting Aztec's out for yrs)... I use a guy in south Florida to build my engines (Flight Line Engines).. Same guy has been building my engines for the last 12 yrs, not one problem with his engines... I would say I overhaul, teardown, 20-30 engines per yr with Flightline engines. He's currently overhauling my personal Baron IO 550 engines...
Anyone wants to call or email me feel free....
386-437-5729
or
[email protected]
Thanks Tom for the heads up on this thread....
This engine we are talking about for 15K was a smoking deal.... I just wanted to move it fast.. No worries now because I'm going to ask $22,500 which is what its really worth...
(IO 540 C4B5, Std/Std solid flange crank tagged, ovh cam, narrow deck case, Six new superior Millennium cylinders, new rod bolts, new bearings, etc.
I don't cut any corners!
Here's why I could sell it for 15K for all you experts out there...
I bought 2 hangars full or parts & the six new Superior Cylinders came from that deal. I already had a IO-540 C4B5 case, sump, crank, Rod, & Cam. (I have been parting Aztec's out for yrs)... I use a guy in south Florida to build my engines (Flight Line Engines).. Same guy has been building my engines for the last 12 yrs, not one problem with his engines... I would say I overhaul, teardown, 20-30 engines per yr with Flightline engines. He's currently overhauling my personal Baron IO 550 engines...
Anyone wants to call or email me feel free....
386-437-5729
or
[email protected]
Thanks Tom for the heads up on this thread....
flaglerairexchange
Member
I had these two engine installs on my computer...
And Yes I just purchased a container full of parts & engines that will be at my shop next week...
I have IO 540 C4B5's from 600 SFRM to Runout cores, I also have a pair of O-540 A1D5's 35 SMOH/625SMOH,Pair GTSIO 520's, another O 540 (250HP) 0 timed, Pair TSIO 360EB's... I have a 40ft container packed full....
pierre smith
Well Known Member
My opinion is that you guys needing engines....
....ought to at least go visit the gentleman (you don't have your name in your bio) at Flagler air. When you can get a decent engine for around a third of Van's, an airline trip would be a money saver.
For the mechanically inclined, look at runouts if he'll gaurantee the crank, or some other similar agreement. There's a huge used engine market out there and this one is easily accessible to anyone in the Southeast and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to rebuild one either. I've seen many 0-540's on Pawnees run 2500 hours plus and weren't big oil users then. They did that time at a minimum of 2500 revs continuous and full power in the turns!
Best,
....ought to at least go visit the gentleman (you don't have your name in your bio) at Flagler air. When you can get a decent engine for around a third of Van's, an airline trip would be a money saver.
For the mechanically inclined, look at runouts if he'll gaurantee the crank, or some other similar agreement. There's a huge used engine market out there and this one is easily accessible to anyone in the Southeast and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to rebuild one either. I've seen many 0-540's on Pawnees run 2500 hours plus and weren't big oil users then. They did that time at a minimum of 2500 revs continuous and full power in the turns!
Best,
dsmith1055
Active Member
Experience with Flagler
I have done business in the past with Flagler, including the purchase of a c-172 sight unseen, & found them to be knowledgeable and honest. All purchases were reasonable and as represented.
I have done business in the past with Flagler, including the purchase of a c-172 sight unseen, & found them to be knowledgeable and honest. All purchases were reasonable and as represented.
Rob Erdos
Well Known Member
Further to the Original Question...
...I'm in the same state of looking to buy a good used engine from among the advertisements and online sources. I've spoken to people who have bought engines via EBay or Barnstormers. It's unlikely that anyone inspects these engines internally before they buy them. After all, who will let you open up an engine on the possibility of a purchase? So, what level of documentation, evidence, inspection, analysis, etc. is required to satisfactorily reduce risk before one would commit to buying a used Lycoming?
Thanks,
Rob
...I'm in the same state of looking to buy a good used engine from among the advertisements and online sources. I've spoken to people who have bought engines via EBay or Barnstormers. It's unlikely that anyone inspects these engines internally before they buy them. After all, who will let you open up an engine on the possibility of a purchase? So, what level of documentation, evidence, inspection, analysis, etc. is required to satisfactorily reduce risk before one would commit to buying a used Lycoming?
Thanks,
Rob
pierre smith
Well Known Member
If you can't see the inside, don't buy it.
It's really that simple.
If you were only spending a few hundred dollars it'd be one thing but when we're looking at $10,000, give or take, I'd have to be able to take off one cylinder at least.
Best,
It's really that simple.
If you were only spending a few hundred dollars it'd be one thing but when we're looking at $10,000, give or take, I'd have to be able to take off one cylinder at least.
Best,
Rob Erdos
Well Known Member
Okay, So While We're At It...
...and I'm picking your respective brains to such effect:
If I had a prospective engine in mind, and if I hired an A&P to have a look inside, and if the owner was not averse to me pulling a jug, then what exactly would you ask him to check? What critical dimensions? What material conditions? What are the specific GO/NO GO items?
Rob
P.S. Thanks again...it's not a hypothetical question!
...and I'm picking your respective brains to such effect:
If I had a prospective engine in mind, and if I hired an A&P to have a look inside, and if the owner was not averse to me pulling a jug, then what exactly would you ask him to check? What critical dimensions? What material conditions? What are the specific GO/NO GO items?
Rob
P.S. Thanks again...it's not a hypothetical question!
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Mornin' Rob...
The cam lobes often rust or wear down. They're easy to see with a jug off.
The condition of the sides of the exposed piston will usually be a good indicator of the condition of the other three, as will any rust or scores on the open cylinder.
Any end play on the exposed connecting rod can be felt, as well as side play.
Best,
The cam lobes often rust or wear down. They're easy to see with a jug off.
The condition of the sides of the exposed piston will usually be a good indicator of the condition of the other three, as will any rust or scores on the open cylinder.
Any end play on the exposed connecting rod can be felt, as well as side play.
Best,
REBUILT IO-540 D4A5
I recently bought this engine from a fellow who has an RV-10 and had this IO-540 for a skybolt he planned to build. The engine was overhauled in Feb. 2004 and run for an hour. I have logs from that overhaul forward, but nothing before that. We are coming up on 7 years from the last run of this engine that has been sitting in garages and hangers. What advice can you give me to make this a reliable engine. I know very little about aircraft engines, but i did rebuild a Porsche engine 45 years ago and a chevy v-8 10 years ago.
RV-10 Soon
I recently bought this engine from a fellow who has an RV-10 and had this IO-540 for a skybolt he planned to build. The engine was overhauled in Feb. 2004 and run for an hour. I have logs from that overhaul forward, but nothing before that. We are coming up on 7 years from the last run of this engine that has been sitting in garages and hangers. What advice can you give me to make this a reliable engine. I know very little about aircraft engines, but i did rebuild a Porsche engine 45 years ago and a chevy v-8 10 years ago.
RV-10 Soon
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Personally....
....I'd pull a jug. "Sitting in garages and hangars" means a lot of possible humid conditions...rust enabling conditions.
Passing that inspection and re-assembled, I'd pre-oil the engine before an attempted start. There are several ways to do this and I used a vacuum cannister attached to the oil pressure sending line and sucked oil through the oil pump and passages.
Preferably, you can also pressurize at the same point, sending oil to all the oil galleys and crankshaft and cam bearings, to avoid any chance of galling a dry bearing face during the first cranking.
Best,
....I'd pull a jug. "Sitting in garages and hangars" means a lot of possible humid conditions...rust enabling conditions.
Passing that inspection and re-assembled, I'd pre-oil the engine before an attempted start. There are several ways to do this and I used a vacuum cannister attached to the oil pressure sending line and sucked oil through the oil pump and passages.
Preferably, you can also pressurize at the same point, sending oil to all the oil galleys and crankshaft and cam bearings, to avoid any chance of galling a dry bearing face during the first cranking.
Best,
