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What options should I order?

T

TimSPEED

Member
Hi everyone.
New member here looking to order an RV-8 in the next few days. So todays question then, what options should I get, what mods do I need, what did you buy you thought wasn't that useful?

So far I have only bought an engine, it's a 200HP AEIO-360 I managed to score locally for a good deal.

Kit options for the RV-8 I am considering are:

Empennage:
Electric Elevator Trim

Wing:
Do I want the fuel sending units or is there a better option?

Other:
Cockpit Adjustable Rudder Pedals
Rear Seat Rudder Pedals
Static Air kit
Electric Aileron Trim

What else should I order from Vans?

The details around the main landing gear legs are unclear on the site, are they included? Do I want the Vans legs?

And what isn't included?
I know I am up for Avionics and Prop in addition to the already acquired engine. But can I order wiring harnesses? Seat belts? Interior items? What things are missing from the Vans order form?

Many thanks.

Tim
 
You should plan on having to order interior upholstery, like seats, belts, and side panels, stick boots, etc. You can find advertisers along the left side of this forum for all those things.

I think the standard gear legs come in the finishing kit (not sure about that, might come in the fuselage kit?) The other option is the Sky Designs aluminum airfoil gear legs, and sometimes if you can find them, aluminum Grove landing gear legs. Be sure to use the search feature here to read up on past threads discussing better gear attachment hardware, in particular better nuts for the bolts that hold the legs on.

A big optional feature is the Showplanes Fast-back. Lots of folks prefer that look. Many builders stick to the standard canopy design that comes with the kit.

There are lots of little niceties, I'll try to name a few here (all of these things are supplied by 3rd parties, or available from Vans but not part of the standard kit) : like individual fluid reservoirs that mount directly on the brake master cylinders rather than the kit-supplied reservoir and tubing that mounts on the firewall. I really enjoy the rudder pedal extensions that I put on my first RV-8, and I will do those again. I personally did not end up installing the back-seat rudder "pedal" kit as they are not very effective. But the optional back-seat throttle is a good thing. There is a after-market latch for the canopy slider that allows you to stop the canopy half-way back. Single steering link for the tail wheel instead of dual chains. Several alternative tail wheel forks. There are many options now for nav lights, strobe lights, landing lights. There are optional short wingtips that are faster at low to mid altitudes but a little slower at very high altitudes. Bigger tires? Many of us that operate on grass or gravel really enjoy having the larger 380x150-5.00 tires - the biggest tire you can fit on the standard 5" wheels. The stock wheel fairings will fit, but you should plan ahead and mount them a bit higher. Many other things like this.

As you build you will have to make choices like whether to put the battery in the back or front. With your engine, you will want the battery in the back.

You should definitely use the search feature to read about the "gear tower mod" to improve access to the inside of the towers.

Beyond that, most of your decisions for things that are not in the kit will be wiring and engine installation details, as well as avionics, prop, paint. There is a wiring kit that comes with materials to make the console switch panel and a central power distribution, but the RV-8 is not as advanced as some of Vans newer kits that come with complete wiring harnesses. There are as many ways to do it as there are RV-8s flying and under construction.

Aside from searching VAF, there are also a number of builder web pages where builders document their construction, often featuring nice additions/modifications. Among the best when I was building were Randy Lervold's RV-8.com and Dan Checkoway's site was really good, although it was primarily for the RV-7, but is sadly now gone. I think Mickey Coggins site, RV8.ch is still up. There are many others.

Welcome to VAF!
 
Skip Vans static air kit. Tackle later and there are better choices out there.
 
Depends

TimSPEED said:
Hi everyone.
Wing:
Do I want the fuel sending units or is there a better option?
Click to expand...

It depends on how you define "better". If cost is not a primary concern, the CiES senders are much more accurate, the electronics are outside the fuel tank and they have a much longer MTBF. They are also $455 dollars or so, versus the $45 dollar Stewart-Warner stock floats.

For most builders, the benefits of the CiES senders don't outweigh the cost. For some (myself included), the accuracy and MTBF are worth the price of admission.

The SW senders can be calibrated pretty well, especially at the low range. If you take some time to dial in your K factor for the fuel flow sensor - barring an unknown leak - you will have a pretty good idea how much fuel you have on board.

Keep in mind that most advice on this forum is worth what you pay for it... ;)
 
And now a public service message from the Centers for Self Control:
____________________________________________________________

Optionitis

(op-shun-i-tus)

1. A disease of homebuilt airplane builders, characterized by endless rationalization. Secondary symptoms include (a) slow build progress, (b) self-doubt, (c) eyestrain. Severity varies widely. Some option heavily without apparent effort, while others succumb to analysis paralysis.

Optionitis is often diagnosed concurrent with Empty Wallet Syndrome.

Epidemiology is complex, but the primary vector appears to be internet contact with other infected individuals. Most patients eventually gain some degree of immunity, if they reach their second build.

_________________________________________________________

Seriously, there are some modifications which have become near universal, notably improved gear tower access and the better nuts on the gear attach bolts. Beyond those few items, realize no one will make fun of you for building a stock, lightweight RV-8. Van himself would very much approve.

Address purchased options when you come to them in the build process. It's natural to try to think ahead, but realize you'll change your mind, new products appear, older products lose manufacturer support, etc. You already have the long lead time item (the engine), so relax. Most of the small stuff can be ordered two weeks before you want it.

Understand a bit of human nature; if you post a "Should I buy this" question here, you'll get a "Oh yeah, gotta have it" from someone who already bought it.

A lot of the best mods don't actually require buying much of anything. They are craftsmanship items, not checkbook items.

Which brings us back to now. For most builders, the immediate concern should be tool purchase and skill development. Build a tail kit, and then think about building an airplane.
 
DanH said:
And now a public service message from the Centers for Self Control:
____________________________________________________________

Optionitis

(op-shun-i-tus)

1. A disease of homebuilt airplane builders, characterized by endless rationalization. Secondary symptoms include (a) slow build progress, (b) self-doubt, (c) eyestrain. Severity varies widely. Some option heavily without apparent effort, while others succumb to analysis paralysis.

Optionitis is often diagnosed concurrent with Empty Wallet Syndrome.

Epidemiology is complex, but the primary vector appears to be internet contact with other infected individuals. Most patients eventually gain some degree of immunity, if they reach their second build.

_________________________________________________________

Seriously, there are some modifications which have become near universal, notably improved gear tower access and the better nuts on the gear attach bolts. Beyond those few items, realize no one will make fun of you for building a stock, lightweight RV-8. Van himself would very much approve.

Address purchased options when you come to them in the build process. It's natural to try to think ahead, but realize you'll change your mind, new products appear, older products lose manufacturer support, etc. You already have the long lead time item (the engine), so relax. Most of the small stuff can be ordered two weeks before you want it.

Understand a bit of human nature; if you post a "Should I buy this" question here, you'll get a "Oh yeah, gotta have it" from someone who already bought it.

A lot of the best mods don't actually require buying much of anything. They are craftsmanship items, not checkbook items.

Which brings us back to now. For most builders, the immediate concern should be tool purchase and skill development. Build a tail kit, and then think about building an airplane.
Click to expand...

Dan, Well stated.

Additional advice.
Decide and Buy options as you go as you will learn much as you build.
Build what you want not what others suggest.
If you want to invest in something early it should be quality tools. Quality tools improve your chances of making quality parts.
 
Static Air kit

Webb said:
Skip Vans static air kit. Tackle later and there are better choices out there.
Click to expand...

The only thing I used from the Vans Static Air kit was the port. It goes in from outside and retains the aerodynamic profile so the instruments work correctly. It's just a rivet. If you can find the correct rivet. The inside is all from a SafeAir kit I think Cleveland sells.
 
Dan is on point. I went astray from the plans very little and it still took me 4 years of "fast" building to get it done. I know people that started before me and are still building. No big deal if you like building. Many on the other hand want an airplane.

Building was fun, flying is waaaaay more fun. Mod responsibly. ;)
 
Hey Dan.
I LOVE IT, Your explanation of "optionitis".
I built houses for 42 years and dealt with this concept/problem a lot and with bigger dollars.
I always referred back to (wants and needs)
Well, unless I knew the budget was unlimited. Then spend away.
It's easy to spend money, But hard to get somebody else to pay you what you have in it cause of all the "extras"
Art
 
wirejock said:
I wonder who you're taking about. I resemble that remark. :D
Click to expand...

Likewise! Technically, I started my -8 in 2008. But I had an airplane to fly. Now it is a no mod zone and show perfect is no longer the goal. There comes a point when it is time to toss it into the air.
 
Finishing

scard said:
Likewise! Technically, I started my -8 in 2008. But I had an airplane to fly. Now it is a no mod zone and show perfect is no longer the goal. There comes a point when it is time to toss it into the air.
Click to expand...

They aren't joking about the 90% done and 90% to go stage.
I am bustin' it in the shop trying to get all these wires where they belong.
When the riveting is done, it's more like 10% done and 90% to go.
Nice part is it did take me longer but when it flys, it won't have to be disassembled for paint.
When I'm done, it's going to be time to fly!
 
wirejock said:
I wonder who you're taking about. I resemble that remark. :D
Click to expand...

Haha many many others Larry. Your build is stellar and will be an awesome plane when it’s done! Can’t wait to meet up at a fly in someday… soon!
 
Last edited:
Bear in mind that my goal was to list off as wide a variety of common mods as I could think of to a newcomer that would not have any way to know about them. It is up to the builder to decide whether to incorporate any of them. I did express my bias on a few items. But the idea is that the newcomer can now go search and get a range of opinions about a variety of mods/upgrades.

It is of course a really good point that many modifications will take you astray and lengthen the build process.

One I left off that I should have mentioned is the upgrade to McFarlane throttle and mixture cables. Also the "Deluxe" throttle quadrant.
 
It is experimental aviation, after all.

Some folks want the base model, others want the King Ranch version.

King Ranch version costs more, weighs more and doesn't have the same performance. More luxurious and more comfortable.

Nothing wrong with either choice and it's nice to have options, recognizing the compromises that come with any of the choices.
 
this is more of a question than an answer.... apparently there are options for flap control, actuation, and indication, but I am not yet familiar
 
Blw2 said:
this is more of a question than an answer.... apparently there are options for flap control, actuation, and indication, but I am not yet familiar
Click to expand...

Yes. To begin, there is the flap drive motor itself. The one supplied by Vans was plagued for a period of time with grease migrating into the motor so it would stop working, requiring the motor to be cleaned out internally. Mine has never had that affliction, and I don't know if this is still a problem or not. But there is, now, a second source of flap drive motors. If I recall, they are somewhat less expensive. Search the forum to learn more.

Then, there is flap positioning. The normal set-up from Vans is just a three-position momentary contact switch. You hold the switch down for "one mississippi two mississippi" to get 1/3 flaps, a couple more seconds for another bunch of flap, etc. Same with retraction, you have to hold the switch in the up position to keep the flaps moving until they are all the way up.

There are at least two sources for flap positioning systems that you "program" to where you want the flaps to go after a momentary contact of the switch. Then another momentary contact moves it to the next programmed position, etc. You can have as many 'stops' as you like. If you hold the switch down for a couple of seconds, they will go to full down. On retraction, if you hold the flap switch up for a couple of seconds, the flaps will then retract fully.

Both of the vendors require you to fit a position feedback system in parallel with the flap drive motor. Not at all a big deal. At this point, I don't remember what was different about the flap position feedback, but the difference lead me to select one brand over the other. Sorry I just don't remember why it was that I liked one more than the other, but you can research a little and figure out how they work.

Particular to the RV-10 and RV-14, the wing airfoil works best at cruise with some negative flap (reflex). I believe both vendors that make flap positioning systems support an option to allow the reflexed position to be one of the programmed positions.
 
Thanks again everyone. I am more than happy to receive too many or extra ideas and opinions, it's an ideal way to learn more :)
 
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