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W-918 Aileron

D

Dex

Member
I decided I'd try to rivet the male ends into the steel rod used in the W-918. The "optional" process is to weld them... I don't have a welder or the knowledge to do it myself so I thought "rivets must be ok".

That was before I botched the job as shown below
W-918_1.jpg

W-918_2.jpg


Is it too late to pay someone to weld the ends on with the existing rivet holes there (I'd complete the hack job I started and drill out all of the remaining rivets of course) ? Obviously I'd have them close those up when they run the bead around the end of the rod. Just not sure if I need to buy new parts at this point or if these are salvageable? They look pretty beat up to me. I'd rather save the money if it's only cosmetic (ego) damage...

Thanks for your help,

Darrin "Dex"heimer
RV-9A Wings
 
Dex,

Since both parts are steel, it looks to me like you could do as you say -- drill out the rivets and have it welded up to include closing the holes. If you did not want to weld I would buy a new part --welding would probably cost as much as a new steel tube. Please also note that the opening where the rod end exits the rear wing spar to connect to the control surface is tight and a low profile weld technique would probably allow more clearance--ie the rivet heads could rub.
BTW, if I remember right my plans called for pulled rivets (others please correct me if I am wrong) for this connection--it looks like you used solid rivets and a rivet gun -- or am I misinterpreting the pic???

Cheers,

db
 
Dex,
That photograph looked very familiar to me. I did the same thing, bought new parts and had them welded. I have seen others who managed to put those rivets in cleanly but I couldn't do it. By the way the plans call for solid rivets, the pulled rivets are for the larger aileron rods that run from the bell crank to the controls.

Bill P. - fuse.
 
Dex,

I stand corrected on the pulled rivets--Bill is right--they are used on the larger tubes as you undoubtedly know by now. If I had mine to do over again I would probably have the small tubes/rod ends welded--at least on one end--to maximize the rear spar exit clearance.

Cheers,

db
 
Has anybody tried putting those rivets in by backriveting while using the Avery or Cleveland C-Frame and a rivet gun? The C-Frame might help keep everything from moving.
 
Last edited:
Like I've said before, there's nothing in the rules that say you have to use a rivet gun. Place the rivet in the hole, place the manufactured head on your anvil, and form the shop head with a 4 lb. sledge. Works great every time.
 
rv9builder said:
Has anybody tried putting those rivets in by backriveting while using the Avery or Cleveland C-Frame and a rivet gun? The C-Frame might help keep everything from moving.
Click to expand...
I love riveting with the C-frame. Consistently good results, especially on stuff like this.
 
Mel said:
Place the rivet in the hole, place the manufactured head on your anvil, and form the shop head with a 4 lb. sledge. Works great every time.
Click to expand...

I used a similar method but used the back rivet set instead of the sledge. No reason to be setting it with the manufactured head.
 
I put the assembly in a vise to hold it and used a hand squeezer to set the rivets. Pretty painless. But to your original question, if theres excess don't see why you couldn't cut off the damaged end and start new. Don't recall offhand if the tube is longer than required.
 
Reply from Vans

This is Vans reply:
It's OK to weld them if you wish, as you say the small holes can be filled as part of that process.

Probably the easiest method to do this (and other parts) is to use the C frame tool to hold the gun and set. That way they will be held in the correct alignment, and you can use your free hand to roll the tube back and forth to steer the rivets as they are set.
Click to expand...
Vans​

I didn't think about using the c-frame for that. I might give that a try just to see if it works :) I'm committed to welding at this point as it will be the cleanest repair after the hack job I did on them earlier.


Darrin
 
That didn't work all that well either :-(

Ok... tried the C-Frame idea and didn't do much better than before. I did manage to NOT put any more nicks in the tube by having the gun fly around though. So, Welding is the route for me! I'm comfortable with my limitations :)

Darrin
 
C frame

pmccoy said:
I also used the C-Frame to set these rivets. The results look good.
thumb.jpg
Click to expand...

Okay, I'm trying to picture this..... the cupped set goes on the bottom and the flush set goes on the plunger. Place the rivet man. head in the cup set and then you whack it with a hammer to mash the shop head?
 
I just used the hammer and anvil (which is part of my vise) approach and it worked just fine. I also poured boiled linseed oil into the tube for "priming" rather than use regular primer. This is how the steel tubing in the old tube and rag homebuilts were protected from corrosion.
 
Robert M said:
Okay, I'm trying to picture this..... the cupped set goes on the bottom and the flush set goes on the plunger. Place the rivet man. head in the cup set and then you whack it with a hammer to mash the shop head?
Click to expand...

No Robert, you don't use a hammer just use your rivet gun using that extra shaft which is turned down at one end to fit the gun. A short burst or two and you've got a very nice shop head.
 
BillC said:
No Robert, you don't use a hammer just use your rivet gun using that extra shaft which is turned down at one end to fit the gun. A short burst or two and you've got a very nice shop head.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to think back now! :confused: I don't think I got that extra turned down shaft with my C Frame. Got mine in a kit from ATS, I may have an extra shaft - just don't remember. I'll have to look around in my tool boxes.

Thanks for the info BillC
 
The "Other" method

I had mine welded. Simple and cheap.
070331g.jpg

For those who are interested, the rods are 4130 steel and the rod ends are alloy steel. They can be welded nicely with a MIG welder using stainless steel wire on about 30 amps heat. I then ground down the welds and primed.
 
Welding

smithhb said:
I had mine welded. Simple and cheap.
......
For those who are interested, the rods are 4130 steel and the rod ends are alloy steel. They can be welded nicely with a MIG welder using stainless steel wire on about 30 amps heat. I then ground down the welds and primed.
Click to expand...

If your rod ends AN490 parts, they are also 4130 steel per the Mil-Spec, and probably cadmium plated.

AC 43-13 says not to grind or file welds (section 7-74...7) and also states that MIG welding is more suitable for mass production rather than small repairs.

I had mine TIG welded by a local aircraft welder... if you can find him at lunch time, usually a few $$ will cover the job....:)

{Will insert picture as soon as I take it....}

Since this is definitely a structural part, I believe that the AC is relevant, but it is an experimental plane, so each to his own....

gil in Tucson
 
The rods certainly carry forces, but they are relatively small. Van's has determined that the loads can be safely carried by two aluminum rivets. Back hammering them, whether it be done by a hammer or C frame, appears to work very well - all you need to do is make sure the rivets won't fall out over time. My biggest concern is the dissimiliar metal situation, so you want to prime the completed joint well.

I was in an offline discussion with another about my use of Boiled Linseed Oil as a primer. I really like it for the inside of steel tubes. It has withstood the test of time and, being an oil, you can install the second AN fitting when the oil is still wet and and you won't have to worry about primer being scraped away. You can also leave a little bit of extra oil inside to be sure that the rivet and hole inside the tube are well protected for added corrosion control.
 
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