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Vertical stabilizer hinge problem

M

Mark Henderson

Well Known Member
I am having problems with binding on the VS hinges. I built the upper and lower hinges last week. The lower hinge was fine, and turned smoothly and freely like the flaperon hinges. The upper hinge was a problem. It turned, but was stiff. I assumed that I had over squeezed the rivets, or applied asymetrical force while squeezing. I drilled them out, and had a little elongating of the holes. I ordered new VS-1210 brackets. I tried the new ones today. I did not even get to the riveting stage. The bearing seems fine, and turns freely prior to being inserted. I When I put all the pieces together and clamped the assembly in a vise to rivet, it was stiff. Same as before, it would turn, but not freely. To clarify what I did, I held the upper surface, (above the bearing) in the vise. No rivets were installed. Just holding it caused the bearing to become stiff. Has anyone else experienced this? I am considering trying to make the recess in the outer brackets deeper to provide more total room for the thicness of the bearing. Thanks for any help.
 
This was seen on some of the early production parts and has been discussed here previously. I suggest you call Van's tech support on Monday.
 
Try this.

Sight down through all the holes.

Do the line up perfectly?

Do any of the bracket have to be flexed at all to get the assembly together?

Just a thought, check them out real close.
 
Not enough space for bearings

I have not started building the tail yet. But I have had trouble with bearings on on other parts of the RV-12, like the flaperons. I used a micrometer to measure the thickness of the bearings and space available and found that the outside plates were not milled deep enough. There was not enough room for the bearings and they were squashed after riveting.
Joe Gores
 
Mark,

I have found that the bearings will work fine if you cleco every hole before riveting. The -4 rivets are tough to get them to squeeze exactly flat and not "mush" to one side or the other. This "sliding" seems to set up side forces on the bearings if the brackets are not held tight while riveting. I have had your experience with the bearing being very tight. When I took the hinge apart and re-riveted it without doing anything else but riveting every hole it then worked fine.

You need to work on your "rivet drilling" skills. Make sure you are drilling in the center, and use a drill just a tad smaller than the #30 (#31 or 32) used to drill it to size, break off the manufactures head by putting the drill in the hole and prying it back and forth til it breaks. Use a pair of pliers on the shop end and wiggle it out. The objective is not to even touch the side of the hole with the drill. I guess I have had a lot of practice. :rolleyes:


JMHO.
 
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The solution

When I ordered the new brackets I thought I was getting 2 brackets, ie 1/2 of the strip of 4. Instead they sent me 2 full strips, so I had spares. The first 2 I tried kept binding. Just for fun I tried a couple of others. The fit seemed a bit better, so I riveted them. I used 2 clecos on the outside holes and then squeezed the center 3 just enough to hold them in place. I swapped out the clecos and did the same. In rotation I squeezed each rivet a little more. Each rivet was squeezed about 4 times. This seemed to do the trick. I did not have any problems on the other hinge, or on the flaperon bearings. I don't know if the second set of brackets was the key, or if I used better technique. I appreciate everyones help. Thanks
 
Mark Henderson said:
When I ordered the new brackets I thought I was getting 2 brackets, ie 1/2 of the strip of 4. Instead they sent me 2 full strips, so I had spares. The first 2 I tried kept binding. Just for fun I tried a couple of others. The fit seemed a bit better, so I riveted them. I used 2 clecos on the outside holes and then squeezed the center 3 just enough to hold them in place. I swapped out the clecos and did the same. In rotation I squeezed each rivet a little more. Each rivet was squeezed about 4 times. This seemed to do the trick. I did not have any problems on the other hinge, or on the flaperon bearings. I don't know if the second set of brackets was the key, or if I used better technique. I appreciate everyones help. Thanks
Click to expand...

Had the same experience with Van's when I ordered the replacement control horns. There is a left and right in each stamping, and they sent me two. As to riveting around bearings - I used the same technique you describe, and had no binding problems. You just have to make sure everything is in straight, and properly seated, then rivet a litlle at a time until there is no chance of "cocking" the assembly.
 
Similar Problem with Control Column Brackets and Bearings

Had a similar problem page 21-10. Both bearings were very stiff. One a little better than the other. Could not move them with my finger but could move them with a drill bit inserted. Called Van's and provided them with the following info after drilling out all of the rivets. The bearing is very free after removing the loads.

Bearing 0.187"
Middle Plate 0.126-0.1265"
Outer Plate #1 0.0635"
Outer Plate Bearing Recess 0.0375" (So Recess Depth - 0.026")
Outer Plate #2 0.0635"
Outer Plate #2 Bearing Recess 0.0375-0.0385" (So Recess Depth - 0.025-0.026")

Total Recess = Recess Depth #1 + Recess Depth #2 + Middle Plate = 0.176 - 0.1765"
The bearing is 0.187" IT IS Getting CRUSHED!

And as mentioned there may also be some side forces.

Van's support indicated that their tooling methods for the COM 3-5 bearings are being improved as they were not accurate enough. My stiff bearings here are not acceptable. Van's will send me new brackets but it might be 1-2 weeks. Will try one more time after priming the parts to gain a mil or two or three, then try again with my parts. Will use the above suggestions.
 
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I canceled my order for the new control column brackets. I reassembled the parts and I can move the bearing with finger pressure.

What I did was as follows. I put one coat of Marhyde primer on each of the surfaces after taping off the bearing recess. Let it cure overnight in a warm place. Then I cleco'ed all of the holes ensuring the bearing was correctly seated. Then put in/riveted the nine LP4-4 rivets removing one cleco at a time. Then what I think made the difference was what I read this morning on the forums. Ensured my countersinks were near perfect and symmetrical. Thanks JerryG! When I set the 4 AD4 rivets around the bearing, I squeezed them ever so slightly, attempting to even out any side force. Made about 5 passes. Thanks to Larry Geiger, John Peck and Mark Henderson on the VAF forums. IT WORKED!! Thank you for your assistance.
 
Was this problem with the upper VS hinge resolved? I ran into the same problem over the weekend and I ended up re-riveting the thing 3 times before I gave up. I'm pretty good at drilling out rivets by now.
I tried to progressively squeeze the rivets to avoid asymmetric pressure on the bearing, tried to make sure, the brackets are not introducing any side force either, and still I end up with an almost frozen bearing after riveting.
The lower hinge works just fine and the bearing there moves freely.
I don't know what else to do at this point to finish this part...
 
I had several bearings brackets that gave a problem during construction; vertical stab, flaperons and control column.
I my case after ordering new parts I didn't have any problems during construction. Seems that especially the "older" parts gave some problems.
There was some info about this in one of the RVators.
 
not milled deep enough

The trouble is that the bearing recesses are not milled deep enough. There is not enough room for the bearing. When you rivet it together, the bearing is squashed. Measure the bearing thickness and the space available with a micrometer. Then can ask Van's for new parts. Or you can apply heavy paint to hold the parts farther apart. Or you can insert a shim to keep the sides apart. Or you can mill the recesses deeper. Altering your riveting technique does not help much.
Joe
 
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