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Transition training in 9A

Paul Eastham

Paul Eastham

Well Known Member
Hi,
Does anyone know of a CFI giving transition training in a 9A? Mike Seager says he doesn't normally have access to the 9A (anymore?)

I am also curious to hear from any 9A pilot who did a transition in a 6A or 7A -- how well did the training carry over?

Paul
 
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OK

Hi Paul,
I trained two guys in my 6A last year who were partners in a 9A. They said that the 9A was easier to fly and land than my 6A by a little bit and had no trouble flying their 9A. The 6 and 7 have a somewhat faster roll rate and less roll stability than a 9, so the consensus is that if you train in a 6 or 7 the 9 will be a piece of cake. It also lands slower.


Regards,
 
My experience transitioning to a 9A:

I had a couple of hours training in a 6A, one hr with Mike Seager.
I was very current flying a Cherokee and a 172. Most of the time leading up to my first flight, I flew the Cherokee to get used to low-wing handling and managing the fuel selector and fuel pump and refining landing technique.

The 9A's numbers are very similar to a Cherokee or 172. The biggest functional difference is the delicacy of the landing gear.

If you have the opportunity, go practice landings (preferably in a Cherokee). Use the recommended RV technique: land on mains and keep the nose gear off as long as possible. A touch of power in the flare is useful.

On taxiing, hold the stick full aft to keep the nose gear light. On take-off, I even hold the stick full aft until the nose gear rises clear of the runway, then check forward, keeping the nose gear off the ground until lift-off.

Practice this until it is second nature, and you will have no problems landing a 9A. Everything else about the handling will seem familiar.

I would avoid full stall landings, because you don't want to drop it onto the runway like you can a spam can. Below 60 knots and the you'll see a dramitcally increased sink rate.

And... always be ready for an overshoot. The 9A can't get down and slow down quickly, and you are better to go around.

In summary.... be very current flying a Cherokee, practice your landing and taxiing techniques as described, and you will have no problem. In my opinion, a 9A is more similar to a Cherokee in landing than it is to a 6A or 7A.

Vern
 
I trained in a straight 6 and a 10 to transition to my 9A. Like Pierre said, the 6 is a little bit quicker in roll so it is ever so slightly harder (plus I trained in a tailwheel). When I flew my 9A it felt very similar, just little bit easier. The 6 was constant speed so it slowed down better than my fixed pitch 9A. Airspeed management was more important in the 9A, and the stick a little more touchy in the 6. Also of course the tailwheel aspect, but I personally feel the 6 was an EASY tailwheel to fly. The Kitfox I fly is much more humbling and much less forgiving than the 6.

Flying any RV will get you way more prepared than any spam can. The performance of a 6,7 is very close to a 9. A Cherokee is a world different in my opinion.

Scott
RV-9A - Flying - 90 hours
 
Scott DellAngelo said:
I trained in a straight 6 and a 10 to transition to my 9A. Like Pierre said, the 6 is a little bit quicker in roll so it is ever so slightly harder (plus I trained in a tailwheel). When I flew my 9A it felt very similar, just little bit easier. The 6 was constant speed so it slowed down better than my fixed pitch 9A. Airspeed management was more important in the 9A, and the stick a little more touchy in the 6. Also of course the tailwheel aspect, but I personally feel the 6 was an EASY tailwheel to fly. The Kitfox I fly is much more humbling and much less forgiving than the 6.

Flying any RV will get you way more prepared than any spam can. The performance of a 6,7 is very close to a 9. A Cherokee is a world different in my opinion.

Scott
RV-9A - Flying - 90 hours
Click to expand...


Flying any RV is a piece of cake in my opinion. The 9A, however, has different landing characteristics than other RVs, and is closer to a Cherokee than a 6A as I mentioned (it will float a long way with excess speed). Of course, all other aspects are definitely unlike a Cherokee.

The key aspect is good flying & landing skills... which can practiced on any similar aircraft. Then, some type-specific training (such as in a 6A) will prepare you for the final transition to a 9A.

I think the 9A is easy to fly and land, with two caveats: learn how to slow it down before final, and be ready for the rapid descent when you slow below 60 knots. It may have a 43 KIAS Vso, but the lift drops considerably below 60 KIAS. Not a problem if you are ready for it (or using it to your advantage).

What's really slick with the 9A is that if touch down a little above stall, you can hold the nose gear off the ground for a long time. This is helps with soft fields as well.

V
 
Go for the 6A with Seager

Paul Eastham said:
I am also curious to hear from any 9A pilot who did a transition in a 6A or 7A -- how well did the training carry over?

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul

I did my transition training for my 9A in a 9A. When I converted to a 9 I flew the 7 with Mike Seager. Go fly the 6A with Seager. Yes the speeds will be a bit different, but the time training with Mike is wonderful.
 
Flying the RV-9A -- 212 hours later...

I too, flew with Mike Seager in the factory RV-6A with a CS prop. http://www.n2prise.org/rv9a132.htm#May31 Ditto all the above comments, especially the full-up elevator in all taxi and take-off roll until the nose wheel comes up. That is when you release some of the stick pressure to hold the nose on the horizon and wait for the main wheels to lift off. It works every time. The sink rate is right per the other discussions above. I have the Hartzell constant speed prop, so I can get into tight fields with no problem. The takeoffs with the CS prop are really good since the engine is turning at 2650 RPM on the takeoff roll. With a fixed-pitch prop, you definitely have to manage your speed on the descent to landing or you will be going around. Also the takeoffs with the fixed-pitch prop will take a little longer since you have only "ONE GEAR" to play with.

Be careful about carrying power in the nose up attitude to final trying to get into a short field, if the power drops off unexpectedly, you will drop short due to that sink rate at low speeds. Be prepared. Play with that sink rate at altitude and watch that vertical speed meter. You should not plan on the long glide approach that a 172 does. Use 80 to 85 MPH on the approach and she will treat you nice to final. If you have VASI lights at your airport, start the approach higher than the glide slope (white over white) and watch the sink rate bring you down to intercept the glide slope over the numbers for a nice round out during the flare. At least that is what I do with the CS prop.

When I was flying the RV-6A with Mike, it took me a few landings to get used to the windshield view of the horizon and diving at the grass before the runway threshold at 90 to 95 MPH. At the end of the transition training, Mike said to just take off 10 MPH and fly my RV-9A. That has worked for me very well. I have only overshot one landing early on during my phase 1 testing back in June 2005.

Which prop are you putting on your RV-9A?

Jerry K. Thorne
East Ridge, TN
RV-9A N2PZ
Hobbs = 212.5 hours
 
Bryan Wood said:
Paul,

Are you going to do your first flight?
Click to expand...

Hi Bryan,
I was planning to unless some well-trained volunteer emerged.

For all those advocating training in a Cherokee -- that sounds pretty good, as I learned in a Warrior and love flying that airplane. I was thinking about getting current in it again before doing the transition training.

Paul
 
Being current before transition training...

That was what Mike Seager insisted upon before my RV transition training. I flew a rented Cessna 172 about a week before going to Scappoose, Oregon to fly with Mike.

Jerry K. Thorne
East Ridge, TN
RV-9A N2PZ
 
Paul Eastham said:
Hi Bryan,
I was planning to unless some well-trained volunteer emerged.
Paul
Click to expand...


Paul, Robin Reid does first flights as long as they are RV's. I don't know why, but some time back he settled on only RV's. When he did mine he had 24,000 hours and counting. Another benefit to having Robin do it is the inspection that he does to the plane before getting into it. He has areas that he looks at on RV's and he found things on mine even after the airworthiness inspection passed it with only placards being called out. He spent about 6 or seven hours getting into every part of mine. When he hands you the keys your flight testing is finished for all practical purposes. Sure you will have to work up information like glides, and best climbs and the like, but you will have an airplane that has been rung out and is known to meet its design strengths. Typically he does 3 or 4 flights with the first being short with an inspection following and corrections following that if needed. Then he goes off and puts it thru its paces. If your plane was aerobatic he wouldl perform all the tricks that the design allows and enter it into your aircraft log making it legal to do these in phase 2.. It will go to redline and back... I'm not sure if he spins the other RV's, but he didn't mine. Basically you get a professional pilot doing a planned and practiced test. You will get your plane back with hours on it, but well worth it. Yeah, it's kind of like having somebody else fill in on the honeymoon but if it makes you feel any better he is very good.

Best,
 
Robin charged $300 which is a bargain if you think about it. His day job is sitting in the left seat of a 747-400 and until recently his backup job was running his flight school and flight instructing. He does this simply as a good will gesture to keep local pilots from getting themselves into trouble. He certainly would have made more money by not spending a 12 hour day with me.
 
Bryan Wood said:
Paul, Robin Reid does first flights as long as they are RV's.

I am interested in learning more about Robin Reid's services. Can you give us an e-mail or phone number to reach him?

I am nearing completion on my 9A and would love to have some help on the first flight.

Thanks,
Duane
Click to expand...
 
Dan Cunningham, RV-9A Transition Instructor

Paul Eastham said:
Hi,
Does anyone know of a CFI giving transition training in a 9A?
Click to expand...

Check out

www.rvtransitionwithdan.com

Dan Cunningham is a first class guy and a first class CFII who built and flies his RV-9A, N904DC. He has transitioned several RV-ers in the last 6 months. He charges $115 per hour for instructor and airplane (wet).

Don
 
Another vote for Dan

Another RV-9A builder and myself have flown with Dan and will continue to do so until our first flights and highly recommend him to others.

I believe Paul is on the other coast and looking for someone who might be closer. But if Paul can come to visit the East coast by all means call or email Dan.

Thanks,
 
Sorry if I'm repeating, but you first need to see what your insurance company wants. If they want specific make and model, or any other possible RV. Satisfy them, then fill in with other training you think you may need. You get yourself "tuned up" on any short-wing RV and you'll do just fine with the -9, IMO.
 
Insurance company requirements...

You got that right. My insurance agent said FIVE hours transition training. It helped that I also got my BFR at the same time. Mike Seager was very helpful and he has more hours in all types of RV's than anybody.

Jerry K. Thorne
East Ridge, TN
RV-9A N2PZ
Hobbs = 212.5 hours
 
RV9-A Training

My insurance company suggested (strongly) that transition training was in same make and model.
We needed to ask Mike Seager very nicely to use Van's RV9-A for transition training in Scappoose, OR.
Mike was very kind and helped us out by doing this for us. I understand his business and flight logic. He can train in the 6A and get you ready for the 9A. If he uses Van's plane, same time spent, less money. Mike is a great teacher.
We were backed into a corner due to insurance requirements and we got help from Mike. Great guy and I recommend him.
As noted in previous replies, there are also other great transition trainers to chose from. The bottom line is that you are making a wise and great investment to get transition training.

Pat Garboden
Ozark, MO
 
Paul:
I did my transition training with Ben Johnson in his 6A, with cs prop. In three hrs he said I would have no problems with my airplane. My 9A is 160 hp fixed pitch. I had no problem test flying mine myself. We used 90 - 100 mph in the 6A for down wind and base then slowed to 80 mph on final. I slow to 75 mph and on final I like 70 mph. It is very docile at this speed and is very easy and fun to land.
Mitchell Alexander
RV9A N159MA 242hrs
 
Training with Mike Seager

Back when I did my transition training Mike Seager would provide the lessons in the factory 9A, but he didn't appear to want to. For those of you who haven't flown with him before he schedules 2 students per day and you switch off. This gives you each a morning flight and both an afternoon flight each day that you are there. This is where the logistics problem seemed to appear for Mike. The magic that made the 9a work for both me and for Mike was to find a second person that would fill the other spot so that he didn't have airplane issues with people training in differing types. In my case my father in law also got checked out by Mike in the 9a and everything went smoothly. My suggestion is that one of you folks call Mike and see if he could provide the 9A if you could provide a second source of money for him in need of 9A training. With these groups you could easily pair up for this.

Just my 2 cents,
 
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