Van's Air Force
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Tools that have been a waste of money
- Thread starter rjtjrt
- Start date
LettersFromFlyoverCountry
Well Known Member
In my shop it tends to be just about anything that's made in China.
I did buy a closed-quarters dimple die set from Avery but I've never taken it out of the package.
I did buy a closed-quarters dimple die set from Avery but I've never taken it out of the package.
carguy614
Well Known Member
bad toolage
My vote for worst tool of the century goes to the fluting pliers with the plastic tips. Real first class junk. Anything made in the Peoples Republic is bound to disappoint as well....Except for those little umbrellas that they put in Polynesian cocktails...and oh yeah.. Fireworks.
Regards...Chris
My vote for worst tool of the century goes to the fluting pliers with the plastic tips. Real first class junk. Anything made in the Peoples Republic is bound to disappoint as well....Except for those little umbrellas that they put in Polynesian cocktails...and oh yeah.. Fireworks.
Regards...Chris
LifeofReiley
Well Known Member
You really get what you pay for here... I try not to support CHINA in any way, not even at Walmart. Buy USA, support USA if the tool is right for the job. Avery is a great supplier, also Cleaveland Tools. Sorry if this offends anyone but I was born in the USA.
PS: Check they might have products not made in the USA...
PS: Check they might have products not made in the USA...
lorne green
Well Known Member
The .019 Cogsdill deburrer. $68.00 new. I thought it would save a lot of time. Actually just a waste of time and money. I didn't debur more than two hundred holes and it went south. There's more control deburring manualy.
dbuds2
Well Known Member
Long double offset for back riveting
I bought the extra long double offset back riveting tool and 3 lb bucking bar with the intent of getting beautiful rivets on my wing skins like previous back rivets. Almost every rivet shop head was bent and the finished flush head looked unacceptable.
I've seen many posts with the same results, so I gave up and never figured out how to use these tools.
I bought the extra long double offset back riveting tool and 3 lb bucking bar with the intent of getting beautiful rivets on my wing skins like previous back rivets. Almost every rivet shop head was bent and the finished flush head looked unacceptable.
I've seen many posts with the same results, so I gave up and never figured out how to use these tools.
LettersFromFlyoverCountry
Well Known Member
Confession time. I think I have every one of the tools folks have listed so far. And they're in some drawer somewhere, still in their original wrapping (especially those fluting pliars). And I bought a couple of strap duplicators at Osh this year. Ditto.
Sure wish Craftsman Tools were still made in the USA.
Sure wish Craftsman Tools were still made in the USA.
captainron
Well Known Member
How about the plastic wire strippers sold by the hucksters at OSH? Yeah, they got me!
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
I always preferred air drills, even though I have several cordless & plug in models that I use in my sheet metal business. Usually had three of them, with different drill sizes ready to go.
However, very little of my 6A kit was pre-punched, and perhaps it's not a lot of drilling these days.
L.Adamson
JonathanCook
Well Known Member
Huge Bucking bar
When I purchased my tools a really slick used tool sales men at the Sun-n-Fun used parts swap convinced me that I really needed a 5+ pound bucking bar that had a spring handle. I paid $40 for it used, but new it would have been hundreds. One year later I put the bucking bar up for sale at the Sun-N-Fun parts swap for $40. Net loss was the commission paid to Sun-N-Fun.
When I purchased my tools a really slick used tool sales men at the Sun-n-Fun used parts swap convinced me that I really needed a 5+ pound bucking bar that had a spring handle. I paid $40 for it used, but new it would have been hundreds. One year later I put the bucking bar up for sale at the Sun-N-Fun parts swap for $40. Net loss was the commission paid to Sun-N-Fun.
Brantel
Well Known Member
Amen to this one
RVbySDI
Well Known Member
Ditto here on this one. They got me too! Used them one time to strip about 4 wires. Made it through 2 wires. On the third one the spring loaded cutting edge went flying out of the tool across the floor. Busted after two wires stripped. What a waste. Oh yeah, looking at the wires I used it on I could see where the cutter nicked the wires. So I had to redo the two wires I used it on.
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
Shocking news
Wow....steel bucking bars are useless??
Wonder how those 5000+ RVs got built without tungsten bars? DaX, I notice your signature indicates you are still building the emp for your plane. After you gain a bit more experience you will learn that rivets can be bucked with everything from tungsten bars to the tips of worn out cold chisels.
It is all a matter of technique.
The tungsten bars are great but certainly not necessary. Just wanted to add a data point for new builders who may have been thrown by your opinion.
Best wishes for a speedy build of your plane!
Wow....steel bucking bars are useless??
Wonder how those 5000+ RVs got built without tungsten bars? DaX, I notice your signature indicates you are still building the emp for your plane. After you gain a bit more experience you will learn that rivets can be bucked with everything from tungsten bars to the tips of worn out cold chisels.
It is all a matter of technique.
The tungsten bars are great but certainly not necessary. Just wanted to add a data point for new builders who may have been thrown by your opinion.
Best wishes for a speedy build of your plane!
I call that the "kamikaze dimple tool". It is great when you really need it, but only IF you're "feeling lucky".
I actually use that bucking bar regularly. Say I'm riveting skin to rib, both dimpled. I put a rivet in the hole, dimple die and bucking bar behind it and hit it lightly a couple of times with the gun. That helps the dimples nestle into each other and the two pieces look much more snug afterwards. Then set the rivet normally.
fl-mike
Well Known Member
- 12 point sockets. What's the point? except probably being cheaper to make.
- Chinese safety wire pliers. (okay, mine came with the project so they were "free" and I was almost tempted to pick up a replacement pair at HF after they "exploded", but I bit the bullet and bought some new Mil-Bar's. I suspect they'll outlast me.)
- Craftsman screwdrivers. Yuck. Buy some PB Baumann and never look back.
http://www.pbbaumann.com/detail.aspx?ID=7870
bsacks05
Well Known Member
How 'bout that POS "cold heat" soldering gun advertised on TV? I bought one which came with a wire stripper - free! I didn't get good results with the solderer and took it into work to see if one of the electronics instructors could show me the right way. He hadn't used one before and within 5 minutes the ceramic tip was broken from too much pressure. I guess that's why they try to sell you extra tips when ordering. Well, at least I had the wire strippers.........until they broke within 5 minutes of normal use.
My only experience with a tungsten bucking bar left my forehead bloodied. I was bucking rivets while laying on my back under Tony's RV8A. The (very small) bar slipped out of my hand and hit my head leaving a small gash and lotsa blood. I still have the scar. Thanks Tony!
Anyway, tungsten works great for bucking rivets, I'm too cheap to buy one though.
My only experience with a tungsten bucking bar left my forehead bloodied. I was bucking rivets while laying on my back under Tony's RV8A. The (very small) bar slipped out of my hand and hit my head leaving a small gash and lotsa blood. I still have the scar. Thanks Tony!
Anyway, tungsten works great for bucking rivets, I'm too cheap to buy one though.
f1rocket
Well Known Member
How about the Avery dimpling Vise-Grip? (for those hard to reach dimples) Used it twice and the fitting broke off the tip. I'm sure Avery would have refunded my money had I sent it back but I tossed it across the garage and I think it's still laying under my wife's gardening workbench covered in spider webs.
captainron
Well Known Member
How else do you work with all those square nuts and bolts?
morlino
Well Known Member
Yeah, I think Bob C mentioned these in an earlier post too. I used mine for 4 holes while building my elevators. Mine are not broken, but I definitely could have lived without these.
Rotary10-RV
Well Known Member
First: 12 point AIRCRAFT bolts wth integral washer heads.
Ok, I agree on the SW pliers, still have my first set, used on cars and aircraft for 20+ years.
Bill Jepson
Jeff R
Well Known Member
I have found that a regular RV tool kit from Browns, Plane Tools or the other big names, plus some extras, will suit you well. Buy other tools as you need them. I added a tungsten bucking bar, DRDT-2 dimpler and pneumatic squeezer. I can't imagine building a plane without these, though I know thousands of others have and my hat is off to them. I am not happy with the cheap aviation snips I got from HF, but for the few times you need them, they are ok. As for dimple sets, drill bits and countersinking tools, get the best from one of those major aviation suppliers. Cheap ones will deform or go dull very quickly and will cause a lot of consternation.
RV7Factory
Chief Obfuscation Officer
Burraway
Another vote for the Cogsdill Burraway.
I had the blade malfunction while a buddy of mine was deburring one of the wing skins. It ended up countersinking about half of the holes in the skin on the back side and we didn't notice it until the skin was flipped over. Replaced the skin and haven't used it since.
Another vote for the Cogsdill Burraway.
I had the blade malfunction while a buddy of mine was deburring one of the wing skins. It ended up countersinking about half of the holes in the skin on the back side and we didn't notice it until the skin was flipped over.
Replaced the skin and haven't used it since.I think I actually purchased the most unusable tool today. It is a digital caliper (I think the english word is). It is made of carbon composite supposedly and looks really mean and black, but when I opened the clear plastic and touched it, it feels like cheap plastic (and probably is).
The main reason I bought it was that it had both mm and inches, so I thought I could forget all these #%&$ 3/16 and 1 5/32 of an inch which means abselutely nothing to me. I thought I could just slide to the correct number of 16's or 32's and then convert to mm directly by pushing a button, or the other way around. But that didn't work, because the caliper operates in decimals not fractions, so instead of getting 3/16 I get some decimal, 0.something, and this of course renders the conversion totally and utterly useless by adding yet another conversion.
On top of that it has an accuracy of only 0.1 mm while my old manual caliper made of steel has an accuracy of 0.05 mm and 1/128 of an inch (both inches and mm on two separate scales). All in all, as a conversion tool, my old caliper is the tool to use, and I probably will never find a better one.
Inches??? I mean this is 2007, not 1607 Well, it's not that bad, fractions of 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 and so on is pretty easy to learn, but why then is some measurements made in 1000 ths and 100ths of an inch? The main difficulty for me is to get a relation to how much 3/16 of an inch etc is in terms of actual length when using my eyes.
As a side note I do find the sarcasm here about non US tools pretty offensive, and it is also terrible wrong. I feel I can say that because I have ordered all my tools from the US from Averytools. I am very satisfied with the tools, but I did not order from the US because of the supposedly "high quality" of US tools, but because I could get it there all in one shot at a price I could afford and at a quality that was (more than) good enough for me. I mean, the US is known for alot of things, making high quality tools is definitely not one of them. Making the best airplane kits on the planet, definitely is
The main reason I bought it was that it had both mm and inches, so I thought I could forget all these #%&$ 3/16 and 1 5/32 of an inch which means abselutely nothing to me. I thought I could just slide to the correct number of 16's or 32's and then convert to mm directly by pushing a button, or the other way around. But that didn't work, because the caliper operates in decimals not fractions, so instead of getting 3/16 I get some decimal, 0.something, and this of course renders the conversion totally and utterly useless by adding yet another conversion.
On top of that it has an accuracy of only 0.1 mm while my old manual caliper made of steel has an accuracy of 0.05 mm and 1/128 of an inch (both inches and mm on two separate scales). All in all, as a conversion tool, my old caliper is the tool to use, and I probably will never find a better one.
Inches??? I mean this is 2007, not 1607
Well, it's not that bad, fractions of 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 and so on is pretty easy to learn, but why then is some measurements made in 1000 ths and 100ths of an inch? The main difficulty for me is to get a relation to how much 3/16 of an inch etc is in terms of actual length when using my eyes.As a side note I do find the sarcasm here about non US tools pretty offensive, and it is also terrible wrong. I feel I can say that because I have ordered all my tools from the US from Averytools. I am very satisfied with the tools, but I did not order from the US because of the supposedly "high quality" of US tools, but because I could get it there all in one shot at a price I could afford and at a quality that was (more than) good enough for me. I mean, the US is known for alot of things, making high quality tools is definitely not one of them. Making the best airplane kits on the planet, definitely is
I bought a really cheap pair in 1981 when I was in A&P school. I was very poor and couldn't afford anything else. I still have them and they work great every time I work on the -8. I've used some high quality ones and they are sure nice but I can't complain about mine...
and they will probably outlast me also.
Karl
morlino
Well Known Member
Inches??? I mean this is 2007, not 1607
Inconsistency is the one thing we can do consistently over here
cytoxin
Well Known Member
wow
Maybe not known for it but I?d put SNAP ON, MATCO, or MAC up against any other. But then some of the best screw drivers and cutters by these guys are from Germany. And half or more of their air tools are made in Japan. Its not necessarily sarcasm against other manufactures it?s mostly the cheap Chinese stuff. yes you can get cheap stuff anywhere but the huge tool outlets are the really cheap chinese stuff. if you want a good set of wreches you have to get snap on or the like. even the craftsman tools which most people think are great suck in the industrial environment. I don?t know about your country but this country is over run with the cheap stuff. Some of it works great most of it wont last a month in an industrial environment. It may last forever around the house but when put to the test they fall really short. But then you get what you pay for. i tell you what, send me some nice tools an i'll reveiw them and report an unbiased veiw on how well they hold up on a daily basis. the tools here that are really good sell for a rediculous amount. but when left with the likes of sears craftsman you have no choice but to buy the good stuff.
i have made a good living using hand tools of many makes and yes there is a difference.(you lifers know what i mean) cheap ones will work good ones will work for longer. if i have a flat tire in the back country of idaho and my socket splits up the side i dont want someone telling me well they have a lifetime warranty, i want the tool to work. YMMV and all that.
Maybe not known for it but I?d put SNAP ON, MATCO, or MAC up against any other. But then some of the best screw drivers and cutters by these guys are from Germany. And half or more of their air tools are made in Japan. Its not necessarily sarcasm against other manufactures it?s mostly the cheap Chinese stuff. yes you can get cheap stuff anywhere but the huge tool outlets are the really cheap chinese stuff. if you want a good set of wreches you have to get snap on or the like. even the craftsman tools which most people think are great suck in the industrial environment. I don?t know about your country but this country is over run with the cheap stuff. Some of it works great most of it wont last a month in an industrial environment. It may last forever around the house but when put to the test they fall really short. But then you get what you pay for. i tell you what, send me some nice tools an i'll reveiw them and report an unbiased veiw on how well they hold up on a daily basis.
the tools here that are really good sell for a rediculous amount. but when left with the likes of sears craftsman you have no choice but to buy the good stuff.i have made a good living using hand tools of many makes and yes there is a difference.(you lifers know what i mean) cheap ones will work good ones will work for longer. if i have a flat tire in the back country of idaho and my socket splits up the side i dont want someone telling me well they have a lifetime warranty, i want the tool to work. YMMV and all that.
Man! I can't believe you publicly dissed my tungsten bucking bar!
Sorry about the scar. If it is any consolation, I may have a scar from when I banged my head on my wing cradle when we moved it to the hangar the other day. I once bought an el-cheapo bench-top bending brake from HF. I figured I could use it for small jobs. WRONG! It was so bad, I had to take it back and get a refund just on principle. Now, when I need anything bent, I go see Bruce. And, I take along my tungsten bucking bar just in case he tries to say he is too busy!
Brian Vickers
Well Known Member
Cheapo paint sprayer
When I first started my 4... back when Billy Clinton was in his second term and bucking bars were steel... Van's was selling a simple paint spray gun that was made of plastic and pot metal. I forget the name of it. Their words were "great for priming and touch ups." Got me!!! It spattered the paint all over the place with no way to adjust it. Looked like I plugged one of my nostrils, and blew the other on the metal. Useless!! Now I have a small Sata HVLP touchup gun, and can't imagine being without it. I can mix and spray very small quantities of primer. It sprays a very narrow pattern for small parts.
When I first started my 4... back when Billy Clinton was in his second term and bucking bars were steel... Van's was selling a simple paint spray gun that was made of plastic and pot metal. I forget the name of it. Their words were "great for priming and touch ups." Got me!!! It spattered the paint all over the place with no way to adjust it. Looked like I plugged one of my nostrils, and blew the other on the metal. Useless!! Now I have a small Sata HVLP touchup gun, and can't imagine being without it. I can mix and spray very small quantities of primer. It sprays a very narrow pattern for small parts.
Jeff R
Well Known Member
They do make digital calipers that will also read in fractions of an inch. Seems like the resolution is 1/64s of an inch, which is all you need for building the structure. When I was scratch building a wooden airplane, digital calipers and a small digital scale were my most valued tools. For a metal plane, I have rarely used the calipers, though I find the scale still very handy to weight out proseal.
As for the metric vs English system, the plans for my wooden airplance generally were dimensioned with both. I nearly always used the metric, as it was so much easier. I don't think the US will ever go metric.
With a digital scale it should be no problem setting the accuracy to whatever you want 1/16, 1/128 or whatever and just display the reminder in any chosen metrics. I mean, the main idea of having a digital scale is that it is possible to do things like that. But I guess the one I bought was made in China
Gary Bricker
Well Known Member
Gary Bricker
I have been around tools and parts all my life (60yrs) and as long as people keep buying from HF and Walmart and AutoZone then we get what we deserve. Search out the quality and you will always be happy. Use quality tools and supplies and your finished product will be quality. Original parts are not the best or they would not need to be replaced.
I have been around tools and parts all my life (60yrs) and as long as people keep buying from HF and Walmart and AutoZone then we get what we deserve. Search out the quality and you will always be happy. Use quality tools and supplies and your finished product will be quality. Original parts are not the best or they would not need to be replaced.
<<I don't think the US will ever go metric.>>
We've gone metric. We just have a whole lot of stuff still on the old standards, like aircraft hardware and automotive speedometers. Most serious
US shop nuts have complete sets of metric and inch tools, and think easily in metric, decimal or fraction.
Don't see much reason to change all the speed limit signs to klicks. It's kinda like Mr Svingen; he obviously understands English, but I don't think he would be willing to give up the Norwegian language.
Worthless tools? I'd have to nominate my BSP pipe tap <g>
We've gone metric. We just have a whole lot of stuff still on the old standards, like aircraft hardware and automotive speedometers. Most serious
US shop nuts have complete sets of metric and inch tools, and think easily in metric, decimal or fraction.
Don't see much reason to change all the speed limit signs to klicks. It's kinda like Mr Svingen; he obviously understands English, but I don't think he would be willing to give up the Norwegian language.
Worthless tools? I'd have to nominate my BSP pipe tap <g>
DaX
Well Known Member
I think it's only a matter of time - my school HEAVILY emphasized and praised the metric system through my engineering classes. I actually prefer metric to the point of putting a metric speedometer in my car.
Rotary10-RV
Well Known Member
The reason for nautical miles is for proper navigation, based on earth measurements like the metric system. The name is just the name.
Bill
Mike Armstrong
Well Known Member
I agree with Gary. Half the problem with tool regret is the purchase of the wrong tool for the task at hand, the other half is it was a 'cheap' tool to begin with. You may want to cut corners when it comes to buying tools but that same tool may also cut corners when it should have gone straight!
Mike
