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too short 470AD4-14 rivets OK in center section??

IowaRV9Dreamer

IowaRV9Dreamer

Well Known Member
I just riveted the two F-904G "Center Section Vertical Bars" to the aft center section (F-904B). These bars are held in with two AN426AD4-14 rivets. The bars have two thru holes to allow AN4 bolts to attach the aft center section to the wing spar. This is on Drawing 16. Here is a pic



The rivets Vans supplies are too short. I would normally put in longer ones, but these are the longest in the kit.

My question is - can I leave them in with substandard shop heads? I think these rivets are pretty much non structural - like the rivets on a nutplate. In other words, the rivets are there pretty much to hold the bars in place until the bolts are installed and torqued?

Don't the AN4 bolts provide all of the strength? Or am I deluding myself?

Thanks for any info... I'd rather not bother Vans if I can get the answer here...
 
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outside specification.... shop heads both too small & too thin. I know that would normally mean "replace" but if the rivets are non-structural???
 
IowaRV9Dreamer said:
I think these rivets are pretty much non structural - like the rivets on a nutplate. In other words, the rivets are there pretty much to hold the bars in place until the bolts are installed and torqued?

Don't the AN4 bolts provide all of the strength? Or am I deluding myself?
Click to expand...
You are correct. The only purpose of those rivets is to keep the bars in place until those bolts are installed. Substandard shop heads on those rivets are not a structural issue.

Press on.
 
I don't have a 9 but just finished the same parts on a 7 and mine were 426-4-14 and the small bar was countersunk. That made the rivet length plenty long enough. I guess the 9 is different, but you might check. Just a thought.
 
oops. you're right, they were 426 rivets. I even countersunk the bars! Still too short, though. Maybe something is different in the 9?
 
OK I have learned a few things so far in the build process, though I have just started my kit, the HS is almost done. But what I have found is that there are many on this forum that quote the Mil Spec with reference to rivet sizes as though it is the end all. Now this is all well and good as a guideline but why second guess the plans, or assume they are wrong. If Van's deviates from the Mil Spec then there must be a reason in my opinion other than that it is a mistake in the plans. If the kits where new I might buy that augment. However these kits are not new and Van's has had many years to engineer them.

I am sure Van's engineers have done the analysis required to use a non Mil Spec rivet or edge distance as I found out with the HS. I just wish the plans would point out these areas so new builders do not spend countless brain cells trying to find out what to do. If you want to reanalyze and redesign each fastener more power to you, but I for one would assume the plans are correct. When I find something that seems off, I call Van's, every time this has come up there is a good reason to follow the plans. My own limited experience and reading the answer others have receive from Van's on various issue has proven the plans to be correct. Now you can deviate and religiously follow the Mil Spec if that makes you feel better but I don't think this is required. Now if you were reading about RVs falling out of the sky all the time then I might question the plans. I choose an RV over other kits mainly due to the great reputation the planes have. Just my 2 cents, you will build faster if you just follow the plans and figure there has already been hours of analysis done on the design. There is no need to reinvent the airplane.
 
Yep The ones than Vans suggests and provides are too short. I used some that I cut down from really long ones.

They are just there to hold the bar until the bolts go in.
 
Dave,
The supplied rivets are the correct length for this purpose (positioning). If they were longer, the 904G wouldn't nest correctly inside the center section.
Steve
 
Steve said:
Dave,
The supplied rivets are the correct length for this purpose (positioning). If they were longer, the 904G wouldn't nest correctly inside the center section.
Steve
Click to expand...

Have to respectfully disagree here. The rivets are countersunk and the shop heads come out the other side. Nothing to do with how the 904g will sit in the center section. The bottom line is that the ones that Van's supplies are too short. This is proven by just about everyone who tries to use them, but they are just there for alignment till you get your wing bolts in.:)
 
Brantel said:
The bottom line is that the ones that Van's supplies are too short. This is proven by just about everyone who tries to use them, but they are just there for alignment till you get your wing bolts in.:)
Click to expand...
I think Brian has got it 100% right. I'm going to leave them. When the bolts are in I don't think the rivets will matter at all.

Thanks to all for your help - now I don't need to bother Vans.
 
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