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Tip up Vs Slider canopy on 7A

Bugsy

Bugsy

Well Known Member
With all the discussion of nose strut hazard, I am questioning my decision to go with a 7A tip up. I am happy with the 7A decision, but wonder if I should go with the added roll safety of slider canopy.

After ordering QB is it too late to change to slider if I do change my mind?
 
from what i have read, you also have a rollbar just behind your head on the tip-up... just as safe i'd assume.
 
This has come up before.

The answer came down to where do you want the roll bar? Right behind your head, as on the tip-up or out in front of you as on the slider.

I don't see the slider as being any more safe than the tip-up in a roll over. In fact, I would think the tip-up is possibly safer because the roll bar is positioned where it is.

See this picture. Note how big that roll bar is and how it is supported from folding over by the horizontal piece.
 
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Bugsy said:
With all the discussion of nose strut hazard, I am questioning my decision to go with a 7A tip up. I am happy with the 7A decision, but wonder if I should go with the added roll safety of slider canopy.

After ordering QB is it too late to change to slider if I do change my mind?
Click to expand...

OPINIONS:

Question #1 ... I doubt if Van would make the tip-up "unsafe" so it is a matter of what makes you "feel good". There are plusses and minuses to both.

Question #2 ... You may be able to change the order (and possibly take a later delivery) but the fundamental structure is different for the two in several places. So you will need to go down one path or the other but not "modify"one into the other.

James
Flying tip-up we built
Building slider that has not flown
Flown other people's sliders
 
You make your tip up/slider choice when you order the fuse kit or, if QB, I would assume when you order the fuselage. It makes no difference with the wings.
 
To me it depends on how tall you are and where you are when the plane flips.

Take a side view of the plane, draw a line from the top of the cowl to a few inches below the top of the tail to allow for scrunching. With the slider, the line has to bend at the roll bar, with the tip up, it does not; if you are tall, your head will hit the tarmac before the tip up roll bar does. When sitting in the plane with a tip up, if you are close to the roll bar height remember that hanging from the seat belt the belt stretches and you stretch when hanging upside down. Bonk!

If you are flipping over on grass, it may be another story. The tip up roll bar may offer a little more surface area to keep it from digging in.

Richard Scott
RV-9A Fuselage, Slider
 
tip up vs slider

first post/waiting to sign off 7A QB-relevant to this post is the fact that I had a nose wheel collapse in my 6A 18/12 ago when landing on my grass strip.My 6A was configured as a slider-the fwd motion collapsed the roll bar fwd-remember the plane is upside down going backwards so the roll bar acts like an anchor-only 2 3/16 bolts up front and the side rails pull away.we were lucky to get out-the co pilot sustained 3 lower cervical fractures requiring titanium internal fixation[you think aircraft hardware is expensive!]She is now my wife and we are about to launch the 7A.I had already started the 7A QB before the accident so had to proceed-would probably have gone tilt canopy if given the choice-going upside down and backwards ,I feel the rear rollbar is more integral to that sort of "flight".will attempt to submit pics of old and new after first flight
 
Thanks Paul

Thanks for all the posts. Paul please add some photos to the discussion. I am more confident now about my initial decision to go tip up 7A. These aircraft are proven and if safely flown are more dependable than many rentals I have flown. But like most I had some initial buyers remorse, but no longer.
 
Paul,

I know I came late to the conversation here, but what is the perceived safety advantage to the slider, as you see it? It is often speculated that a slider is easier to get out of when upside down (just slide it open!) but an analysis of the design reveals that this is likely not possible.
 
jeff-I feel that in my particular incident the tip up rollbar would have been stronger as it is integrated with the skin behind the baggage section.When going backwards,upside down along the ground without your VS there is less chance of a rollbar collapse as happened in my slider[the rollbar was flat on the fwd fuse skin].the perspex was shattered-opening the canopy was not an issue.Unlike the UK incident our fwd speed was sufficent to take out the VS-there was some twisting motion as the left wing tip hit the ground after the nose dug in.spoke with the vans team at oshkosh 2006 and will repair/rebuild after getting airborne in the 7A
 
The choice probably depends on the accident you plan to have.

By coincidence I went to Van's today to pick up parts and there was a guy picking up parts to rebuild his RV-7A, tip up. With the old style nose wheel, it flipped on a grass strip & he broke his neck. Had to have some vertebra fused. Sounds like it was similar to Paul's accident, just with a different roll bar.

Unfortunately, we don't have a data base for comparison; only anecdotes.

I have raised the roll bar safety question with an FAA accident investigator and with folks at Van's and the answer was "neither is inherently safer than the other". The best advice I got was from the FAA guy who has built and helped build multiple RV's and investigated RV accidents and he said the best thing is to have your seat belt and harness tight. He couldn't recommend one over another.

Richard Scott
RV-9A Fuselage
 
geez... this stuff is kinda making me question my decision on building an RV all together... seems there is a nosewheel safety issue that needs to be redesigned to prevent this stuff... Im 6'4" and was aiming for a tip up, now Im scared my head is going to be part of a runway if I dont make a perfect landing.... :(
 
Daniel,

Fear not--the nosewheel has been redesigned and last I hears Van's claims there have been no tipovers with the new design.

Richard Scott
RV-9A Fuselage
 
Not yet at least

Not yet at least. I hope it stays that way.

RScott said:
Daniel,

Fear not--the nosewheel has been redesigned and last I hears Van's claims there have been no tipovers with the new design.

Richard Scott
RV-9A Fuselage
Click to expand...
 
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