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Tip-up forward skin fitting

Pmerems

Well Known Member
Advertiser
RV tip-up builders,

I have been working on fitting the tip-up front canopy skin and drilling the hinge blocks. Twenty years ago (man I'm getting old) I fought with my RV-4 canopy frame and canopy to fuselage skin fits. There was no part symmetrical or straight back then and shimming was routine. :rolleyes:

I thought that twenty years later things would be a bit better. Better tooling, builders experience etc. might have changes things for the better. No so. So last night I came to the following conclusion. Shim as required. :eek:

I spent a great deal of time fitting the canopy front skin, checking and triple checking the curves and the forward canopy frame bow doesn't match the forward bulkhead assembly. After drilling the hinge blocks, the skin contours matches reasonably well on one side but the other side needs shimming (about 0.030-0.040") under the fuselage front skin to match the canopy skin (at the 2:00 position when sitting in the airplane). I am a pro at making tapered shims for this occasion after all I went the RV school of hard knocks (1980's RV-4 building-Old School).

I also had to shim under the hinge weldment flanges where they meet the front canopy frame bow. The shims varied in thickness from 0-0.060". One might be thinking that I must have had things out of position or something, not so. I spent hours checking removing, installing, checking etc before drilling any holes in the canopy frame. But the end result was the hinge holes were within 0.020" of center. I ended up with a gap between the front skin and the canopy top skin of 0.050-.060". I was shooting for 0.040" but things must have moved when drilling and reaming the bushing holes (another area for improvement-trying to ream bushing holes perpendicular by hand with a hand drill is not a very good technique).

A few builders posted similar problems with the skin fits. One mentioned that even the factory RV-7 tip-up has a misfit. The solution recommended was to bend the offending skin down with an edge-rolling tool. This was not acceptable to me. So I started shimming to fix the problem. One new fast shimming technique to determine the length, thickness and taper of the shims required was to use laminations of aluminum tape (found in the ducting department of Home Depot). I just cut strips of aluminum tape and laminated them over the offending bulkhead or frame. I kept adding tape starting with a longer piece with each additional piece a little smaller to simulate a gradual taper. Re-installed the skin to determine if I had achieved the results I was looking for. If not I removed the skin and added or removed layers of tape. Then I removed the laminated shim and measured the varying thickness and lengths and created a taper shim for permanent installation.

For those interested I can post some pictures of the shimming or fit achieved.

Feedback is always welcome. :)

Paul
RV-4/RV-7A finishing kit
 
The canopy is definitely an area that could use some improvement. It's true that the canopy kit needs some flexibility to account for slight variances in the fuselage, etc, but Vans could still make it much easier to build.
 
Yep...shim away!

I'm having the same problem. I'm just about ready to rivet my canopy frame together. I played around with some shims between the forward skin and the sub-panel that brings it up to level with the canopy frame skin. It's pretty close now..but not perfect.

I have NEVER seen an RV that has a perfect fit in this area. I anticipate mine being a little off once I rivet everything. Every tip-up -6, -7 or -9 I've seen either has a) a misalignment in this area or b) filler on the front skin.

Anyone else get theirs to line up?
 
The flat portions of my skin met up pretty well. But the outside curved portions needed some help. Shim away.

(You'll also get into it between the forward skins and fiberglass cowl.)

Bright Moments,
Bruce W.
 
And my -6 is no different...

I actually feel a little better knowing that my tip up -6 is not the only one out there with a poor fit where the fwd top skin meets the leading edge of the canopy frame assembly. I spent a fair amount of time on the frame and its positioning/mounting relative to the fuselage structure, but during that process I only had the fwd skin clecoed down. The fit seemed good, but when I finally riveted that skin into place at the very end of the project . . . damn, it is lying too low, and now the leading edge of the canopy frame stands higher than the fwd skin. The curved side portions actually mate up pretty well, it is the top that is the problem.

It looks lousy and - of course - is in a spot where you cannot avoid seeing it during preflight, etc. I've held off painting the plane in part because of uncertainty as to what to do to make it look better (I am NOT going to rebuild the fwd skin assy or the canopy frame, I know that). Looks like there is some filler in my future . . . :(
 
Boy is this timely!

I was just about ready to post on the same subject.

I'm fitting the canopy skin to the frame and noticed the same bulging at the 10 and 2:00 positions. Granted, I havent' spent too much time tweaking yet.

If I go the shim route, how does this impact the foreward fuse skin. Mine was almost too tight in that fitting to the longerons was almost impossible. Seems to me that a new forward skin that's not pre-punched may be the answer to both issues.

Otherwise, I was temped to use a shrinker on the canopy skin to pull it down a bit at 10/2 positions. Any thought's there? I don't think it's an issue of the sides bottoming out on the decks.

Jim
-7 Canopy
 
How about trimming the front C channel halves a bit at the center joint, so as to shrink the canopy frame width-wise a bit? That's probably what I'd do next time...
 
I think one of the local RV-9A builders just used some buildup material on the top fuse skin to match that of the top canopy skin and just feathered it out so it looked good.. you wouldnt notice once painted.

I have some pretty good sized gaps on my 9A tip-up as well.
 
C-Channel Tweaks

For Dan's comments, I was actually thinking about tweaking them a bit so there's a slight downward bend from the center. The splice plate is straight, but we know from the center, moving outboard, the bend is actually downward. I would think this has the effect of pushing the corners down to the forward skin. If the bottom outboard edges bottom out, a little vixon file action would do the trick on the lower edges.

OK, I'm grasping at possible solutions here :D
 
Shim Away

Jim P said:
If I go the shim route, how does this impact the foreward fuse skin. Mine was almost too tight in that fitting to the longerons was almost impossible. Seems to me that a new forward skin that's not pre-punched may be the answer to both issues.

I too was concerned about how well the holes would line up if I added shims. I ran some calculations and determined that minor shimming should not be an issue. If you added a continous 0.04 shim around the complete front skin bulkhead there would be an approximate .010" hole shift (outboard) on the outer most holes). However since the area needed to shim is about 1/5, or less, the lenght of the bulkhead the shift should be about .002" at the outer most holes. This is not perfect math but it is close enough for government work.

I then shimmed with the aluminum tape and verified it wasn't an issue at all.

I would recommend taking the forward skin off and lay some layers of aluminum tape (even masking tape will work) and get the fit you are looking for and see if you have a hole alignment issue. I will bet it won't be any worse then what you had originally. It will probably take only a few minutes to simulate the shim as I described.

Please report back your results.

Paul
RV-4/RV-7A
 
Shimming Progress

Reporting back on the shims....

I tried a couple shims this evening and although it's not perfect yet, it's the way to go. As usual, I needed to take off a bit of the AL hinge spacer and file down some of the seal hat-angle, but after that, it sure looks like it's going to work out well. :D

I figured this was going to take a lot longer to solve this one so I'm pretty psyched'. Hopefully I'll get some pics up before too long.

Jim
 
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