Tip: Proseal

[HawkGuy]

Okay so i was reading www.rvproject.com and i came across the proseal sealing up the tank part.. and I have some tips for working with proseal... Before i start my background Im a Helicopter Mechanic in the Army, and we use proseal on everything.. literally so ive got Alot of hands on experience.. well over six years worth of daily working with proseal.. okay heres what I have learned...

1. definitely use a scale to measure out the proseal to get the correct mixture the first time, and then remember what the color that you get from that first batch because once youve mixed it a few times and can "eyeball" the color so to speak you can go ahead and take the training wheels off and ditch the scale. your proseal should come out a nice dark gray i know ill probably catch flak for this one but it doesnt have to be perfect and if in doubt make it a little darker.. too light a very light gray and it wont set up. the darker it is the quicker it will set.. that being said dont mix it so dark that it appears black because it will set up too quickly and harden too much and be prone to cracking.. any kind of nice darkish gray color will do.

2. rubber gloves are awesome until they get a little proseal on them and they start to get sticky.. to combat this.. get some vaseline and put just a very light coat on your finger tips the vaseline will keep the proseal from adhering to the gloves... no more mess..

3. when scooping proseal out of the can (white half only) whatever you use to scoop it with whether it be a spoon or a piece of wood, smear a little coat of vaseline on it, and it will keep the proseal from sticking to it much easier *note do not use vaseline on your stir stick*

4. Clicos and proseal = a pain in the neck to clean.. so use a thin coat of vaseline on the clicos you use to hold the tank together when sealing/riveting.

5. when spreading the proseal over seams use your finger, but and this might be a surprise.. dip it in vaseline before you start spreading it. the vaseline will keep the proseal from adhering to your skin.

6. when at all possible.. buy proseal in tube form, so all you have to do is inject the activator and use a drill to mix it all up, and from there its like having a ready made syinge full of proseal (ill post pics of that later, it is the crapper!)

anyways i hope someone find this information useful, i remember my first encounter with the black tar.

 

[AussieRV]

Proseal

Hey Hawkguy,

Thanks fo the great tips ... however, i do have a question about the vaseline factor. Seeing it prevents proseal adhering to things ... what happens if by chance you get it on the surface you're trying to seal? ... and particularly if it happens un-knowingly. Will this will hinder the sealing capabilities or perhaps a bad seal altogether?

Cheers,

Matt

 

[HawkGuy]

yes it is true it prevents it from adhering.. however as for the surface you use ensure its clean like you would before it starts, however most people apply the proseal with some sort of applicating tool, we use cut off acid brushes or popscicle sticks(these work the best). so the vaseline on your gloves really a small film at the finger tips to keep the proseal from attaching and creating sticky mitts is really a non hinderance. whenever you apply the proseal and remove the clicos the proseal is going to push through that hole until the rivet is pressed into its place and with as tight as that rivet gets squeezed and the pressure on the proseal from the ribs and the skin coming together chances of a leak appearing there is slim at best, and lastly most people will put a finishing bead of proseal over the joint the ribs create with the inside of the fuel tank. if you dont go overkill with the vaseline like i said just a very small film of it will do the trick. then you should not have any issues withthe overal seal of the tank. all it does is not allow the proseal to stick to the clico or your glove if you ensure the surface its being applied to is clean, then you wont need to worry about whether or not this will cause a leaky tank.

 

[Rick6a]

....i do have a question about the vaseline factor........ Will this will hinder the sealing capabilities or perhaps a bad seal altogether?.....

Sometimes, the shop reality is things are sometimes done that are not approved by the proseal manufacturer or a vigilant QA department. Working with the stuff, you soon discover it can be difficult to deftly smooth out a bead of proseal. I've seen people (when critical eyes are looking the other way) use hand lotion or spit to do the job. The technical folks will tell you any such contaminents will degrade proseal and to some degree they are right. In a production environment if critical eyes kept looking the other way some people would take that as license to do anything they please. Process Specifications are written in a manner designed to keep that barn door shut.

Use common sense. Make certain the contact surfaces to be prosealed are completely clean and dry. Apply and smooth out the proseal as best you can. Although it cannot be recommended, some people may conclude that under the right circumstances and when no one else is looking, used sparingly a little vaseline or hand lotion or spit can go a long way to make a difficult job just a little bit easier.

 

[dhammer]

How about -

For years I've had great success smoothing out sealers by lubing my gloved fingertip with liquid dish soap. Doesn't mess with the sealer and wipes off with a damp rag after everything is cured.

 

[az_gila]

Rick... it seems like there might...

Sometimes, the shop reality is things are sometimes done that are not approved by the proseal manufacturer or a vigilant QA department. Working with the stuff, you soon discover it can be difficult to deftly smooth out a bead of proseal. I've seen people (when critical eyes are looking the other way) use hand lotion or spit to do the job. The technical folks will tell you any such contaminents will degrade proseal and to some degree they are right. In a production environment if critical eyes kept looking the other way some people would take that as license to do anything they please. Process Specifications are written in a manner designed to keep that barn door shut.

Use common sense. Make certain the contact surfaces to be prosealed are completely clean and dry. Apply and smooth out the proseal as best you can. Although it cannot be recommended, some people may conclude that under the right circumstances and when no one else is looking, used sparingly a little vaseline or hand lotion or spit can go a long way to make a difficult job just a little bit easier.

...be a difference between contamination during a "smoothing" operation and that occuring during an "application" operation.

Vaseline on your glove tips seems to make the idea of gloves for non-contamination purposes less effective.

Having your "scoop spoon/stick" coated with vaseline - even a thin layer -would seem to be to be a very likely direct contamination of the mixed product before application.

Water (spit) would probably evaporate during application (at least here in AZ......) but the petroleum based greasy vaseline would definitely not.

The use of greasy materials around proseal sounds suspect to me when all of the instructions/processses call for no contamination.

Any "stray" materials used in the "smoothing" process after the sealer is in place would only contaminate the exposed surface and would appear to be less critical.

 

[HawkGuy]

...be a difference between contamination during a "smoothing" operation and that occuring during an "application" operation.

Vaseline on your glove tips seems to make the idea of gloves for non-contamination purposes less effective.

Having your "scoop spoon/stick" coated with vaseline - even a thin layer -would seem to be to be a very likely direct contamination of the mixed product before application.

Water (spit) would probably evaporate during application (at least here in AZ......) but the petroleum based greasy vaseline would definitely not.

The use of greasy materials around proseal sounds suspect to me when all of the instructions/processses call for no contamination.

Any "stray" materials used in the "smoothing" process after the sealer is in place would only contaminate the exposed surface and would appear to be less critical.

sorry didnt mean to bring about a heated discussion.. however if youre using the glvoes specificaly to keep contaminates out of the proseal then you havent worked much with proseal. if i was worried more about contaminants then the process of removing all the proseal from my skin after work completion then i wouldnt use the gloves at all. this isnt a blood or heart transplant.. the fact of the matter is proseal is a very very effective sealant and a little bit of "stray contaminants" as you call them is negligable in the outcome of how well it will seal. youre more likely to destroy a proseal job by mixing it too light *which is hard to do* then you are by using a little bit of vaseline or spit or lotion on your clicos to keep them from getting gummed up.

Im not telling you to do anything i was merely sharing what ive found works the best when applying proseal.. and ive applied it to everything from UH60 Fuel Cells to a random ground wire thats exposed to the elements.

However i do see where cause for concern can play a part in that if you smear vaseline all over the mating surface that you intend to apply your sealant, then it will take you a considerable more amount of time in getting that portion of the tank sealed.. and youll know it because the sealnt will just slide right over that area and leave a clean surface behind it. So in my experience a little bit of it goes along way.

 

[az_gila]

That was the main concern I had...

......

However i do see where cause for concern can play a part in that if you smear vaseline all over the mating surface that you intend to apply your sealant, then it will take you a considerable more amount of time in getting that portion of the tank sealed.. and youll know it because the sealnt will just slide right over that area and leave a clean surface behind it. So in my experience a little bit of it goes along way.

...assembling RV fuel tanks involves handling the ribs during the faying surface proseal application. With clean, unadulterated gloves on, you are less likely to accidently contaminate any surface you touch.

I have used a reasonable amount of proseal - probably about 8 RV tanks - and I find that MEK soaked small cloth rags, not reused, works for glove cleaning - along with the use of a syringe for material application.

But, as they say, YMMV....

This is what I wrote for the Grumman tank re-sealing guys - with much of it taken from VAF and Matronics - -

Some items that will help the job go better...

Use a digital scale calibrated in grams (cheap at Harbor Freight) to measure by weight - 10 to 1 is the correct ratio.

Batches of 30 grams or more seem the best to handle.

Syringes work great, but some of them have too small a hole. Drill out the hole to 1/8 and it will be much easier to dispense.

Small paper cups are not usually strong enough to handle the mixing action - strong plastic cups are better, and again, the auto paint store has good ones. Cheap plastic cups will melt in MEK.

Buy good, thin gloves that are resistant to MEK - I found the best at the local auto paint dealer (Harbor Freight is not good for this)

Get a push top dispenser (like your wife uses for cream) and fill it with MEK for cleaning.

Cut an old sheet in to lots of 3 inch squares. Use these for cleaning after wetting them with MEK from the dispenser. Then instantly throw them away, since cleaning cloths can spread sticky stuff more than they clean. Use a square to wipe your gloves when they get Sealer on them.

Paper towels are not the best for cleaning, use the old sheet squares.

Popsicle sticks and tongue depressors came cheaply in packs of 100 from Wal-Mart - they are called Craft Sticks and are in the Crafts section. They also have a narrower and thicker stick that you might find useful.

Retrieved from http://www.bondline.org/wiki/Fuel_Tank_Leaks

 

[RScott]

Proseal may be a hassle, but I would not want to take a chance of contaminating the work and later, after the tank is all put together, find out I have several leaks. The hassle of fixing any leaks overrides the value of shortcuts for me. I just used lots of gloves. And for little spots of Proseal on the gloves, a little acetone on a paper towel took care of them.

So, have you leak checked it yet?

And regarding using spit or other contaminants during a production operation doesn't mean it works. If there is a problem, they will find out later when the plane is finished and say "****! That Proseal just doesn't work as well as it should!" The production guy got away with it and since he used spit while no one was looking, they will blame it on the product rather than a misapplication of that product. So, the question on this is, did those planes have fuel leaks when finished?

 

[scrollF4]

ProSeal vs WD40

My Dad always said that WD-40 can clean anything. Last night after using ProSeal on my rudder trailing edge I used WD-40 to spot-clean my hands, the rudder skin, etc. Worked like a charm!

Now, a question: How soon should the ProSeal "firm up", giving me my first sign that I mixed it correctly?

 

[bruceh]

Now, a question: How soon should the ProSeal "firm up", giving me my first sign that I mixed it correctly?

Depends on temp/humidity/etc. I always kept the paper plate that I mixed the proseal on around with the stir stick so that I could verify that the sealant had cured properly. Less temptation to mess with the aircraft parts while things were still sticky. If the stuff on the plate was cured, then the stuff on the aircraft parts was also cured.

 

[DanH]

A suggestion, if I may....

If you must wet your fingertip or lube a tool or whatever, consider using toluene....it's a component in polysulfuide sealants.

 

[john.schwaner]

ACF-50 is also very good at removing "pro-seal" from your hands.