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Tip: Backriveting 470 rivets

Robert M

Robert M

Well Known Member
Here's an idea that hit me as I was trying to figure out how I could rivet some 470 rivets without any help. I'm wondering if somone else has already talked about this.

After getting the hinge parts ready to rivet onto the floor of the RV, I was going to have to figure out a way to set the rivets without any help or wait until I did get help.

So here's what I tried - and it worked......

Using one my my backriveting plates, I placed a small, thin (about 3/8") piece of foam rubber on each side of the riveting area. Then, making sure that no clecos were clear of the plate so they wouldn't interfere, I used my 3X gun to set the rivets using the backriveting plate as my bucking bar.

Here are the pix....
sorta_backriveting_1.jpg

sorta_backriveting_2.jpg


There's no way this method could be used in all situations but it sure worked great right here.
 
C-Frame

I can't see the pics, my employer blocks them. But I think I understood your situation. I believe I used my c-frame for that task. I ordered one of the AVery kits, and part of it included a direct rivet-gun rod for use in the C-Frame. That piece is for the shop head side. I placed the unversal head into the C-Frame base. It is then a delicate balancing act to start riveting. It was not overly complicated though, and things came out well.

The only concern I would have with your solution is ensuring the work pieces remain flush against the manufactured head when you start riveting.

If it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid.
 
470 Back rivet

I didn't do this at home because the need never came up, but at work to back rivet some AN 470 heads, I drilled into one side of the back rivet plate just far enough to crater the plate for the head. It took a big drill press, a sharp bit that was the same diameter of the rivet shop head, and lots of oil to keep it cool, but the recess works great. Just another way to skin the proverbial cat.

Eric Kallio
 
Stupid question

I'm not really understanding how this works. Since I may be doing quite a bit of riveting on my own, I'd like to. On which side of the assembly is the shop head? Does the plate bend down to the back riveting plate?
 
It looks to me like it isn't really back riveting. From the pics it looks like universal set is used in the gun and the shop head is formed on the barckriveting plate (it is just acting as a bucking bar). I suspect that the foam compresses and the assembly being riveted flexes downward slightly to close the gap. It looks like something I'll have to try out.
 
or..

just drill a 3/16ths hole in your back rivet plate (or other piece of flat steel) and insert a domed set to hold the rivet head.

Then back rivet in the nromal way... did my vertical tail spar this way.


Frank
 
Use a Vice?

Secure your largest bucking bar in the vice, hold the work piece and rivet away. Make sure the workpiece doesn't shift off the side of the bar. I use this method all the time.

Pete
 
C-Frame

I use my Cleaveland C-frame to backrivet AN4704 rivets. The lower set holder holds the AN470 set and the upper holder holds the backrivet set with my rivet gun on top. It's not pretty but I use scrap wood to shim and level and since the upper backrivet set is held perfectly square, getting a well set rivet is easy.

DSC00682.JPG
 
Little known fact!

I am glad your idea worked so well, I will keep it in mind as I have started my fuselage.

It is acceptable to use a flat set or a bucking bar on the head of a universal rivet (470).

the old non countersunk but flat head rivet (442) were replaced by the 470 and can be driven from either side.
 
morlino said:
It looks to me like it isn't really back riveting. From the pics it looks like universal set is used in the gun and the shop head is formed on the barckriveting plate (it is just acting as a bucking bar). I suspect that the foam compresses and the assembly being riveted flexes downward slightly to close the gap. It looks like something I'll have to try out.
Click to expand...

What happens to the clecos ?
 
What happens to the clecos ?
Click to expand...

From the OP:
... Then, making sure that no [sic] clecos were clear of the plate so they wouldn't interfere...
Click to expand...

i.e. I think he was using the BR plate as a giant bucking bar, not back-riveting at all, and making sure the clecos were, in fact, all clear of the plate.
 
I've back riveted a handful of them by clamping the 470 rivet-set in my vice.

Put the parts and rivet on top the shot the back side of the rivet with a back-rivet set.

Worked pretty well, but you have to be careful not to get any smilies on the Mfg head or the aluminum.

Phil
 
morlino said:
It looks to me like it isn't really back riveting. From the pics it looks like universal set is used in the gun and the shop head is formed on the barckriveting plate (it is just acting as a bucking bar). I suspect that the foam compresses and the assembly being riveted flexes downward slightly to close the gap. It looks like something I'll have to try out.
Click to expand...

That's it! The foam keeps the sheet metal raised off the flat backriveting plate. Then as you apply force against the manufactured head of the rivet with the 470 rivet set and the rivet gun it pushes the rivet to the plate surface. Then shoot the gun and set the rivet.

Again, this is not a solution for all solo riveting. This only worked because the seat floor was removeable from the airframe and layed flat on top of the foam.

This is just another way to do it - seems my idea is in good company with others.
 
I use a piece of ~1"x1"x4" steel drilled to accept a universal set, & a backrivet set in the gun. I've got a very heavy work table, a section of maple bowling lane. I put the steel bar w/set on the table, place the work over the set (shim around it with foam, wood scraps etc to keep it level), hold the work down tight against the set, & back-rivet with the gun.

Charlie
 
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