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Throttle quadrant vs push-pull knobs

D

Dorfie

Well Known Member
Would like to get your experience with the two different setups.
It seems that it will be easier to make small adjustments especially to mixture with vernier control than with levers?? How easy is it to get to LOP with levers? I think throttle and prop control does not make a big difference.
I have a Socata that I am flying now that has levers, and most other planes I flew had push-pull setup. No LOP though.
What you think.
Thanks.
Johan
 
While not a -10, I put a DJM throttle quadrant in my -9.

At least for me, there are no issues leaning the engine or making power adjustments. LoP operation is probably simpler as you are not twisting, twisting, and twisting some more. Just smoothly pull the red knob back until you see the number you like and all is good.

The DJM throttle quadrant has a friction lock on the right side and I leave it so there is some resistance to movement.

Works great and I would not want to fly with a Cessna style throttle.

BTW, there are many other piston planes out there with throttle quadrants that don't have any issues.
 
In regards to LOP, it doesn't matter. either works fine. It's a personal choice. I have a throttle quadrant, primarily because every plane I've flown has had one. I'm more comfortable with a throttle quadrant.
 
Exactly as Bob says. Either works, people tend to go with what they know. For many years I was a partner in a 182, so I went with push-pull controls. Vernier controls are no issue, you can push in the button if you just want a big pull or push. Only issues I have heard are (1) Vans' supplied push pull cables can be too short (happened to me), and (2) some quadrants have trouble locking the mixture while allowing motion in the throttle (I think there's a fix for that).
 
I agree with the 2 Bobs. I have Van's throttle quadrant in my -10, and had push-pull in my Pitts. I prefer the looks of the quadrant, but both get the job done.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
Have you fellows with quadrants been satisfied making small enough mixture adjustments to get a good GAMI spread chart? That's the only thing I can think of that might be a challenge.

I have run quadrants in Arrows when I was renting. I agree they are fine for day to day use. (I cared not about GAMI and LOP since price was wet). I put in push / pull because I was averse to the extra weight of the quadrants.
 
Thanks for replies

Is the Vans quadrant OK quality? Does it mount to Geoff's aerosport panel? One thing I like about the quadrant is that you can advance all levers at the same time using one hand on a go-around. My main concern was small adjustments in the mixture and that moving one lever moves the other.
Johan
 
The quadrant has much more movement in the throw so its easy to get a small adjustment as the movement is translated down the cable just fine. I have no problem adjusting .1GPH at a time on the flow.

I have the quadrant and AeroSportProducts panel and they work just fine. Only a very small modification to adjust to it. Though you MAY need longer cables than the stock ones from Vans depending on your setup.
 
Either works just fine.

it all depends on what you want/like. I have flown many hours with both. Which ever way you go you will figure out how to hold and move the engine controls to make those fine adjustments. I decided that while a quadrant would look cooler I really liked flying with push/pull controls. My airplane my call!!
 
I am thinking about a center counsel with a quadrant in my 9A. I like the looks and I was never thrilled with the push - pull controls and twisting on the 182 I used to fly.

My only concern is if it will make it more difficult to get in and out. Maybe it will be easier with a place to push off of. With the knees I have, it is not the easiest of planes to get in and out of. I made a wood knock up and it looks and works pretty good. Thanks for the info on what quadrant to use.
 
Dorfie said:
Is the Vans quadrant OK quality? Does it mount to Geoff's aerosport panel? One thing I like about the quadrant is that you can advance all levers at the same time using one hand on a go-around. My main concern was small adjustments in the mixture and that moving one lever moves the other.
Johan
Click to expand...

Aerosport Products lower center console works great with the throttle quadrant from Vans.

Like Mark mentioned, you need longer cables than come in the FwF kit. Cablecraft makes a higher temperature rated sleeve than want Vans sells, so I took the opportunity to upgrade to that at the same time.

Modification of the control lock is pretty easy too. Basically replace the existing bolt with an AN3-60a, if I remember the size correctly. That allows you to position the lock handle outside the lower console.

Here,s a link to my build site for a photo. I apologize, I still haven't figured out how to get the individual photo properties on my iPad.

http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rleffler&project=260&category=4234&log=169642&row=5
 
rleffler said:
Aerosport Products lower center console works great with the throttle quadrant from Vans.

It looks great and I love the insert that covers the quadrant.

Like Mark mentioned, you need longer cables than come in the FwF kit. Cablecraft makes a higher temperature rated sleeve than want Vans sells, so I took the opportunity to upgrade to that at the same time.

Do you have the exact lengths you ordered from Cablecraft? I suppose I can leave out the cables from Vans? Did you need all three of the cables? I will have standard IO-540 C4B5 setup with Bendix FI system that came with the engine.

Did you find that the movement of the different levers are completely independant of each other?
Thanks
Johan
Click to expand...
 
Using quotes

How do you make the quote show up in a colored box?
I tried to do it in previous post, but no joy.
Johan
 
Dorfie said:
rleffler said:
Aerosport Products lower center console works great with the throttle quadrant from Vans.

It looks great and I love the insert that covers the quadrant.

Like Mark mentioned, you need longer cables than come in the FwF kit. Cablecraft makes a higher temperature rated sleeve than want Vans sells, so I took the opportunity to upgrade to that at the same time.

Do you have the exact lengths you ordered from Cablecraft? I suppose I can leave out the cables from Vans? Did you need all three of the cables? I will have standard IO-540 C4B5 setup with Bendix FI system that came with the engine.

Did you find that the movement of the different levers are completely independant of each other?
Thanks
Johan
Click to expand...


I don't have the lengths handy. If you search the threads here you can look for threads that both Dave Saylor and I participated in and you should find them.

But there is a caveat, there isn't a one size fits all. In general, you'll need about 3" longer than the Van's cables. Some have got the Van's cables to fit, but they are tight. The exact length depends on what accessories are mounted on the engine, the brand of fuel injection and how it's mounted (vertical or horizontal (my fuel controller is horizontal for the ram air mod)) and lastly how efficient a path you select to route the cable. Best to take something like plastic weedeater string and measure an exact length before ordering.

Several of us have ordered from push-pull.com, who is a Cablecraft distributor. You'll get the same tag that you get from Van's that states not for aircraft use. But they will build you a custom length cable with the higher rated sleeve for significantly less than Van's charges. Just don't mention it's for an aircraft.

Here's an article from Tim Olson that you may want to read. But remember that Tim's quadrant is mounted per Van's plans and isn't mounted at the Aerosport Products location. You will probably need different lengths.

The throttle quadrant is a pretty simple device. I have no issue with mine with movement of one lever impacting the other.

bob
Click to expand...
 
Why not both?

Dorfie said:
Would like to get your experience with the two different setups.
It seems that it will be easier to make small adjustments especially to mixture with vernier control than with levers?? How easy is it to get to LOP with levers? I think throttle and prop control does not make a big difference...
Click to expand...

I've flown with both and ultimately converted the prop and mixture to vernier on the -8 and left the lever on the throttle. The vernier allows extremely fine changes when LOP and does not move, creep or get bumped. IMHO this is the best of both worlds and I will be doing the same on the Rocket.
 
Toobuilder said:
I've flown with both and ultimately converted the prop and mixture to vernier on the -8 and left the lever on the throttle. The vernier allows extremely fine changes when LOP and does not move, creep or get bumped. IMHO this is the best of both worlds and I will be doing the same on the Rocket.
Click to expand...

I wish I had done this. I have the Team Rocket quadrant and my left leg was bumping up against the mixture control. I did un-bend the control arms which helped a lot, but the best solution would be to do what Tom Martin and the aerobatic guys do... move the prop and mixture to vernier controls.
 
vlittle said:
I wish I had done this. I have the Team Rocket quadrant and my left leg was bumping up against the mixture control. I did un-bend the control arms which helped a lot, but the best solution would be to do what Tom Martin and the aerobatic guys do... move the prop and mixture to vernier controls.
Click to expand...


The OP has a RV-10. We don't have those space issues that that the other RVs and Rockets have. :D

With the Aerosport Products panel and throttle quadrant insert for the lower console, everything is away from any bumping from legs, knees, etc. I did modify the area that Aerosport Products intended the venier cables to go for my light, vent, and fan controls. You can also see how I modified the quadrant lock to extend past the lower console.

FP25042013A0000K.jpg

FP21042013A0005D.jpg

FP07042013A0002G.jpg
 
rleffler said:
The OP has a RV-10. We don't have those space issues that that the other RVs and Rockets have...
Click to expand...

...But you still have the fine adjustment and stiff or creep issues found with throttle quadrants.

I have center mounted engine controls on the Hiperbipe and one of the first mods was to dump the quadrant and switch to vernier. For cross country work, the "set and forget" aspect of a vernier is very nice.

Obviously, both have their appeal, but I know what works for me.
 
Last edited:
Whoever said "both"...

Not a -10, but put me in the "both" camp. I just finished swapping out a quadrant for vernier controls in my flying 9A. I preferred the ergonomics of the quadrant, but am much happier with the vernier for fine mixture control. In an ideal world, I'd have a quadrant throttle and vernier mixture.
 
I started out wanting the quadrant and had it installed and decided that it took up way to much real estate for what I wanted to do with my panel
design and what avionics I wanted to install. That being said I really had to think twice when I went to the verniers. After 4 years now I love the verniers. I love the ease of fine adjustment with them. They don't look as cool but they work great. And in the 10 once your up cruising along you don't touch them at all.
Now with all the remote Transponders and radios available it gives you a lot
more options and more panel room.
I feel the quadrant gives you the better look and cool factor but the verniers give you more control.

They are both Nice

Geoff
0_0_00c82a3ab0b7786996dbe62bd577d910_1
 
Split 'em up...have the best of both worlds. I have a DJM quadrant with throttle and prop levers, and then added a vernier push/pull for mixture so I can fine tune it. I got the idea from this forum...apparently a lot of aerobatics planes are set up this way.
 
Thank you

Thanks for all the posts and opinions. I originally wanted to go the route of push/pull, but for reason of accuracy and stability of vernier control. Then hearing how well the levers work, and I liked the looks of the levers, that was what I was gonna get!! Bob's panel looks so good. Then Geoff posted a picture of his push/pull setup, and I instantly liked the uncluttered appearance and the use of the space below the controls. I guess that is how confusion works!! Choices about things that are equally functional! I have learned if I am uncertain about options, then they are mostly similar with neither having a clear advantage, and does not make a big difference in the end. Somehow I dont think lever for throttle and vernier for prop and mxture will not look right in the RV10??!!
So, for now at least, it seems push/pull is leading!!
Thanks again.
Johan
 
Dorfie said:
Thanks for all the posts and opinions. I originally wanted to go the route of push/pull, but for reason of accuracy and stability of vernier control. Then hearing how well the levers work, and I liked the looks of the levers, that was what I was gonna get!! Bob's panel looks so good. Then Geoff posted a picture of his push/pull setup, and I instantly liked the uncluttered appearance and the use of the space below the controls. I guess that is how confusion works!! Choices about things that are equally functional! I have learned if I am uncertain about options, then they are mostly similar with neither having a clear advantage, and does not make a big difference in the end. Somehow I dont think lever for throttle and vernier for prop and mxture will not look right in the RV10??!!
So, for now at least, it seems push/pull is leading!!
Thanks again.
Johan
Click to expand...

As I mentioned before, it's really a personal option. What other folks think is best for their use doesn't matter. What matters is what you like.

Here's a third option with the Aerosport Products panel. With Geoff's panels, there are two different throttle quadrant options depending on the type of panel you choose. The following is Rob Hickman's (AFS) personal RV-10.

robpanel.jpg

Notice that with this Symetrical panel the quadrant is mounted a little differently and also give you a little more space for additional avionics. If I were doing my panel again, it would look very similiar to Rob's.
 
Dorfie said:
Thanks for all the posts and opinions...
Click to expand...

Soliciting opinions from us is not going to assure you make the right decision. Personally, I find verniers easier, more accurate and "better looking" (is that really a criteria?) than a quadrant, but that in no way invalidates someone else who feels exactly the opposite.

I'd suggest you fly both levers and knobs on your "typical" mission profile and then make your decision.
 
Throttle vernier?

I have flown with both, currently with quadrant. What I find interesting is the mention of throttle with vernier action. All throttles (black knob) I have flown had no vernier, just throttle friction nut. Mixture and prop were verniers.
I like to have place to rest my hand (especially in turbulence)with the quadrant, and the pictures shown does not appear to allow that option.
If I go with push-pull, throttle will not be vernier but friction nut type.
Johan
 
I have a vernier throttle on an airplane and I find no problem with it, even when others do. That said, I probably would not go vernier for the throttle again.
 
Dorfie said:
.
I like to have place to rest my hand (especially in turbulence)with the quadrant, and the pictures shown does not appear to allow that option.
If I go with push-pull, throttle will not be vernier but friction nut type.
Johan
Click to expand...

There's an option that is easy to install as well. Install a center console, like this one from Aerosport Products.

arm5.jpg

I find I can rest my elbow and arm on the arm rest allowing me to easily adjust the throttle quadrant. I can rest my little finger on the panel insert to give a little more support if needed. I suspect the same is true with a vernier.​
 
I've flown 40 years only using a quadrant, almost all of it in jets. Last year, I started getting back into SEP flying on Warriors and Arrows, again using a quadrant. I then got to do my conversion training in RV10, which had the push/pull. Absolutely not an issue and entirely natural. Didn't get much chance to do any accurate leaning as we were doing GH, but I found the prop control very accurate. It's the way I have gone on my -10.

Flying the Arrow a few months ago, I was coming out of a relatively short strip with a relatively heavy load and it wasn't climbing away as well as I would have liked (even for an Arrow). I then found that the RPM had come back - I didn't get to check the numbers. Either it got nudged or I didn't have the friction high enough. Either way, that's not going to happen with a vernier control.
 
I don't fly an RV (yet!) but in my Warrior, I place my fingers on the throttle in such a way that I use only my finger muscles to adjust the throttle and mixture. I'm able to get very precise control this way. I have thought about vernier controls a lot--are they that much more precise? I have a digital tach in the warrior and can quickly adjust the revs within about 5 rpm on the tach using my method with the quadrant. Very fine control takes a tiny bit more time but very small inputs can be made by anchoring the ring and pinky fingers against the quadrant and working the middle and index fingers against the thumb.

I'm sure others do it this way too, but here's a pic of my technique (demonstrated with my sim quadrant as I'm not in the plane right now).

Quadrant-sm.png
 
quadrant vs vernier

I have many hours flying each. I chose vernier for my 10 because I didn't want the throttle quadrant sticking out below the panel. I thought it looked cleaner that way. as far as precision goes I think both work well.
 
I read on this forum about guys not liking the fact that there is one friction control for both throttle and mixture on a quadrant. So guys are putting in a throttle only quadrant and push/pull vernier mixture. I've decided to go that way on my 4. I will fab my own quadrant and get cables made at a local shop. But certainly both solutions have been used successfully countless times. Happy New Year to all. I sure hope I fly this year.
 
Best of both worlds...

I used to have all three controls on a quadrant and found that a single friction control on three levers often left me with a throttle lever that was too stiff when the friction was tight enough to keep the mixture or prop levers from creeping. This problem is universal and can happen in your -10 or -8, etc.

I have converted to a quadrant mounted throttle and vernier prop and mixture controls and I'll never go back.

 
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