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The stupid windows....

Phil

Phil

Well Known Member
I think I just reached my wits end on finding a clean solution to make the door/window transition on the interior side of the doors. Before I sent the doors flying without the airplane attached, I decided I should walk away and come inside. I'll try again tomorrow but I am not very optimistic that tomorrow will be any different than tonight.

When I initially glued the windows in, my glue oozed out onto the window in a few areas nearly 1/2". I know I'm going to have to leave it or eventually go ahead and scrape the surface and then polish the acrylic as best I can to remove the scratch.

At this point I think a fillet of micro and epoxy is the best bet. But it still isn't a nice solution to finish the window and I'm not the type of person who says "Screw it. It's good enough."

Has anyone come up with a solution to finish the window transitions on the inside of the doors?

I've flipped through the McMaster-Carr site looking at various seals and can't seem to find one that looks like a candidate.

Someone should make closeout rings. They seem pretty standard since they only need to fit Van's mold. I would have attempted to make my own before I cut the window opening out to the proper size, but now that isn't an option since the window is already installed.

Phil
 
I used Weld-On 45, masked with elect tape. Pulled tape off after 3-5 min. Sanded any rough spots after 24 hrs. Painted gray just like the rest of the interior. Just like the demo plane. Simple, cheap, easy and lightweight. Filled outsides, applied one 3 oz lay up on the joint and ended 3/4" in from edge to match inside flange.

Spinner/cowl.
 
Phil I would not use the weld-on. I used the Lord adhesive. It has a 20 minute work time and can be cleaned up with PPG dt860 reducer. The reducer will not hurt the windows. You can also make a very nice fillet on the inside
of the window. Contact me offline for more info.
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Geoff
 
proseal

I talked to a painter in SLC and they use proseal to make a nice, thin, black, durable bead around all the windows, inside and out. The exterior filet/bead is very small, just enough to smooth the little edge transition between the fiberglass/primer/paint and the plexi window. I tried using the weld-on for a "bead" on my rear windows (inside), and that was a disaster, then I used some black silicone to fix it after grinding away the excess weld-on (looks good). I plan to use the black silicone or proseal on the front windows inside and will try the proseal on the exterior transitions. Obviously, you'd want to mask off everything but the area it's applied to to keep the proseal from straying, as it is wont to do....

my $0.02
 
Phil has already used weld-on 10(thinner version).

+1 for Proseal. It is used for same purpose on military aircraft and by this time in the build everyone should be a pro at prosealing. See vaf front page for what mine looks like, same color. I am not building a show plane and will be flying at 23 months. YMMV.
 
I think you need to be careful about substituting the Weld-On specified in the plans. As I understand it, it is a structural adhesive and the whole bonded canopy/windows assembly contributes to the roll-over strength of the aircraft.
 
I believe the main reason weld-on 45 is not in the plans is because it requires a $100 cartridge gun. As far as strength and material cost it is very close. Just very little clean up and good gap filling. No rolls allowed:D.
 
Wayne, I am almost to the window bonding step, believe it or not, and just took at look at the product data sheets for Weld-On 10 and 45. It shows a working time of just 6 minutes for Weld-On 45, and 25 min. for -10. I seem to be a bit slow in most things, do you see the short working time as a significant challenge?
 
I used Sika adhesive. It is specifically designed for attaching plexiglass/organic windows to fiberglass. The spec for adhesion far exceeds the weld on 10 and it cleans up nicely with mineral spirits. I did a pull test on a 2" X2" square and the window material shattered and the adhesive never let loose. Go to the Jamestown distributors web site and look at the videos and the photos of installations. I painted the inside of my doors before I put the windows in, used painters tape and it all came out perfect on the inside.
Having said that, the windows are not easy to install. IMHO Vans did a down right S**** job of designing and manufacturing the fiberglass parts. It is hard for me to understand how they can do such a fantastic job on the metal and neglect the plastic. They should have used two piece molds and designed the window to be installed from the inside like every other plane I have ever seen. It would make for a lot less time on finishing the outside, and if the window needs to be replaced it does not involve having to repaint the plane!

IMG_1514.jpg
 
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Andy, I trimmed to fit, applied 4" strips of masking tape to all four sides. Then cut masking tape to provide quick alignment during installation. Have a helper, have everything roughened with 80-120 grit, cleaned with 91% isopropyl, caulk the toothpaste consistency 45 on and push in place. 1/4"-3/8" bead. No washers, no brushing, no mixing, no running.

You'll have electrical tape applied just inside of fg edges and over factory protective plastic. Plastic should be trimmed about 3/8" from fg edge. This allows elect tape to stick/protect windows.

Quickly run a gloved finger to form fillet. Let it cure about 3 min and pull all tape off.

Call if you have any other questions.
 
Thanks for all the comments. I intentionally stayed away from the doors tonight simply to clear my head. :D

Since my weld-on is already everywhere and I've already used the dremmel to grind as much as I can out of the interior transition, I think the pro-seal idea is a good one. With a careful touch I could create my own "seal" that I was searching the McMaster-Carr website for.

On the pro-seal topic: Has anyone found a good way to make a fillet with pro-seal? I've tried it a few times with my fingertip dipped in alcohol and that worked great; but only for a second or two. Has anyone found something else to keep it from sticking to your phalanges?

Phil
 
Alcohol in a spray bottle. Spray as needed. I will tell you that some in the military used the expedient method and applied spit to their non gloved fingers. Just don't let anyone see you. This may not be good for your cut finger.

Practice on rear window first to get down the time before pulling elect tape off. After masking off roughen fg/acrylic with 120 grit and clean with 91% isopropyl. Have fun.
 
Proseal

OK I'm finishing my tanks up this weekend in a marathon proseal session. I'm putting a nice filet on the end ribs before I put on the rear baffle. Tearing gloves and swearing at the proseal and I remember a tool I had bought at Target or Lowes.

Here it is - http://www.homaxproducts.com/products/kitchenbath/02/index.html

It worked great. Its some kind of rubber so it won't scratch and you can really press down and force the proseal where you want it to go.

I'm thinking some masking tape to establish the width and this tool and you can make a great filet on the windows.

I'll never like proseal but this tool that cost a few bucks makes it easier to tolerate.
 
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