Van's Air Force
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The store is back open as well as increased pricing statement
- Thread starter Desert Rat
- Start date
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
I'm a glass half full kind of guy and see that situation as, yes you're paying for things you won't need but it's also a way for more new spare parts to be out there for sale by those who don't need them for their build but others might need them. Of course you're paying for them now and have to stock them so it sucks, I get that too.
Vans has updated the kit prices and lead time page to now show what items are or aren't included for each standard kit.
https://www.vansaircraft.com/order-a-kit/kit-prices-and-lead-times/
https://www.vansaircraft.com/order-a-kit/kit-prices-and-lead-times/
Desert Rat
Well Known Member
welp- I guess we'll see if these are indeed the final prices or if they go away again. The 7A model is still $4500 more than the tailwheel version. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Its also interesting that the additions to the standard kits are all vendor parts.
Its also interesting that the additions to the standard kits are all vendor parts.
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Extra gear leg, more welding / weldments, extra tyre, tube, wheel, spat, extra drag, less ramp appeal, reduced miles to the gallon…
Makes you wonder why anybody would want a nosewheel aeroplane…
meloosifah
Well Known Member
Extra gear leg, wheel, tire, tube, fairing, wheel pant, etc. The -a model has to be $3,000 + in cost difference just in the parts that hang on the nose. More complicated engine mount, steps, etc. Add into that the fee that a really wise company would charge for someone who doesn’t fly taildraggers - should put you right at $4500. Another reason to get your TW endorsement. 
yes it was
my thought on the price difference was maybe there is some higher valued parts for the main gear mounting points on the 7A as the & gear mounts to the engine mount area rather then the fuse.
Extra gear leg, more welding / weldments, extra tyre, tube, wheel, spat, extra drag, less ramp appeal, reduced miles to the gallon…
Makes you wonder why anybody would want a nosewheel aeroplane…
Extra gear leg? I didn't realize that you taildragger guys were *really* taildraggers. I always thought you had a wheel back there, but I guess you've gone really macho pilot and use a tailskid now?
Extra gear leg, more welding / weldments, extra tyre, tube, wheel, spat, extra drag, less ramp appeal, reduced miles to the gallon…
Makes you wonder why anybody would want a nosewheel aeroplane…
"Anybody" is over 50% of Van's sales.
The A model is the backbone of Van's Aircraft. With the exception of the RV15, Van's quit bringing tail draggers to airshows at least 10 years ago.
rocketman1988
Well Known Member
...and
...and the RV-10 doesn't have the option.
People thinking that their specific airplane makes them better than they are...
...and the RV-10 doesn't have the option.
People thinking that their specific airplane makes them better than they are...
dmattmul
Well Known Member
14 vs 14A
Something seems off, a 14A is ~$1,000 more than the 14.....seems correct.
Also, a 14 empennage is more expensive than a 10 emp?
Something seems off, a 14A is ~$1,000 more than the 14.....seems correct.
Also, a 14 empennage is more expensive than a 10 emp?
For at least the last two years, the RV-14 taildragger has been at the Van's booth at Oskhosh...
AeroEngineer
Active Member
Nor the 12.
Remember that the RV-7A and 9A now get the same kind of nose gear leg and engine mount attachment as the 10 and 14A, with an articulated attachment, rubber "doughnuts", etc. I think the 8A still has the old-school super-simple nose gear leg like the 6A. (This may not quite justify the $4500/$150 numbers, but it's something).
wirejock
Well Known Member
Pricing
Agree. Something is wonky. I expect lots of prices to change.
The elastomeric gear/ mount accounts for some of the discrepancy but not on the 9/9A and 14/14A. Weird.
Agree. Something is wonky. I expect lots of prices to change.
The elastomeric gear/ mount accounts for some of the discrepancy but not on the 9/9A and 14/14A. Weird.
Look up the registration. Van's does not own that aircraft. Van's did not bring it to Airventure.
They obviously wanted it there on display. That is the point.
meloosifah
Well Known Member
Everyone who is pondering over the significant price difference between the nosewheel and tail dragger, have obviously never looked at the parts costs online. That entire new nose wheel system is outrageously expensive. That’s a cost that is not even in the kit for the tail dragger. In addition, you have the weldments which are crazy expensive as well. Add in all of the fiberglass pieces and extra wheel and tire, and you have a significant difference in price. I priced all these parts out when I started converting my project. Before everything that’s happened recently, it was a solid $2500 difference. And that did not take into account the new style nose gear, which is significantly more expensive than the old style.
Still doesn't explain why the 9/9A numbers are much closer together than the 7/7A. What does the 7A have that the 9A don't have? Or, what doesn't the 7 have that the 9 does have?
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First off, I’m not cheerleading. I think this whole mess that was created by the Execs is deplorable.
They are trying to turn inventory into cash. I placed an order Sunday Dec 9 with least expensive shipping for in stock items. It will be delivered today. Good job.
I paid double for a gear leg fairing due to the recent increase #captiveaudience. So I only bought 1. For $227/each I’ll make copy and build the other one. Had it been semi reasonable increase I would have bought them both. The increase on wheel pants is also ridiculous. Almost double. You can buy a pair of Sam James for the price of 1 Vans. I think the charge double plan will not produce the desired results.
They are trying to turn inventory into cash. I placed an order Sunday Dec 9 with least expensive shipping for in stock items. It will be delivered today. Good job.
I paid double for a gear leg fairing due to the recent increase #captiveaudience. So I only bought 1. For $227/each I’ll make copy and build the other one. Had it been semi reasonable increase I would have bought them both. The increase on wheel pants is also ridiculous. Almost double. You can buy a pair of Sam James for the price of 1 Vans. I think the charge double plan will not produce the desired results.
Lucky, Ordered a couple in stock parts Nov 14th and haven't heard a thing yet about my order. Store still shows pending and I don't want to order again since I don't need multiples.
Charging over list
I just find it interesting that Vans new prices are over list for reselling 3rd party parts. What is the need to get them from Vans when you can order them from other venders cheaper? For example:
55-204 Grove Wheels And Brakes:
Vans - $2,460
List Price - $2,299
Even more interesting is that the recommended upgrade kit for RVs (recommendation from Grove website) with two piston calipers:
56-213 Grove Wheels And Brakes:
Aircraft Spruce - $2,335
List Price - $2,418
I know this is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, but I think its representative of Vans no longer using its buying power to make building a kit plane cheaper.
I just find it interesting that Vans new prices are over list for reselling 3rd party parts. What is the need to get them from Vans when you can order them from other venders cheaper? For example:
55-204 Grove Wheels And Brakes:
Vans - $2,460
List Price - $2,299
Even more interesting is that the recommended upgrade kit for RVs (recommendation from Grove website) with two piston calipers:
56-213 Grove Wheels And Brakes:
Aircraft Spruce - $2,335
List Price - $2,418
I know this is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, but I think its representative of Vans no longer using its buying power to make building a kit plane cheaper.
There is value in having a single source - both for people who don't want to spend the time to find individual suppliers, and for people who have ridiculous shipping costs like Australia or Hawaii.
signals source = lower shipping costs?
airguy,
I'm not sure your logic about reduced shipping hold true, now that vans will not bundled orders, and ship them together. The wheels and breaks are a perfect example. There were part of the finish kit. Now they must be ordered separately, and apparently shipped separately.
airguy,
I'm not sure your logic about reduced shipping hold true, now that vans will not bundled orders, and ship them together. The wheels and breaks are a perfect example. There were part of the finish kit. Now they must be ordered separately, and apparently shipped separately.
The wheels and brakes are now included in the fuselage kit.
Straight from Vans:
"Previously, part of the wheel/brake package was delivered in the fuselage kit and the rest in the finish kit. In order to add an option for Beringer equipment, because the components are all different, we needed to consolidate the wheel/brake systems into the fuselage kit. As a result, this increases the cost of a new fuselage kit, and reduces the price of a finish kit. But, for people who already have one kit or the other, we need to accommodate your choice of wheels/brakes."
I am currently waiting on my 14A Finishing kit and engine only. I have everything else. I haven't started my build but was planning to begin this winter.....not sure I will do that now with all the price increases. I was very tight on my budget and if the engine price increases like my Finish kit did ( increased by $4000) then I am going to consider selling my prop, empenage, fuselage, and wing kits. The cost increase has really been a bitter pill to swallow for me and may end my dream of building my own plane. I know many of you can afford these increases and I am glad for those that can absorb this pricing but not sure I can manage it. Already working out how to cut my avionics down to afford the impact but short of having a prehistoric panel I just don't see it right now.
It is also upsetting that I placed my 25% deposit down on the entire kit 14mos ago so as not to endure a price increase and now the terms of that deal are apparently null and void! Just not happy with Van's at all.
Sorry for my rant but it feels good to tell someone.
It is also upsetting that I placed my 25% deposit down on the entire kit 14mos ago so as not to endure a price increase and now the terms of that deal are apparently null and void! Just not happy with Van's at all.
Sorry for my rant but it feels good to tell someone.
A lot of little things
If new engine prices are the big concern for you, then maybe a used engine might be an option. It takes time to find one but it’s cheaper. I’m personally thinking about a used engine as preferred for my 9 when it comes to take it flying in a few years. Avoids having to compromise between test flying and engine break in. I’d rather break in the engine once I know the rest of the plane is not something to focus on.
That being said, you haven’t started building. I don’t know how detailed your budget is but I ran into all sorts of additional expenses so far and I am just starting the tanks. There are lots of smaller things I bought. A bunch of it is tools but also replacement parts for when I screwed up and things like pitot tubes, a connection kit for pitot and AoA, wiring, etc. There are a lot more things than kits, engine, and avionics to buy. You will probably spend more than you expect right now.
Right now isn’t a bad time to sell though if you can’t make the budget work. You can probably sell for more than you paid.
-Lars
If new engine prices are the big concern for you, then maybe a used engine might be an option. It takes time to find one but it’s cheaper. I’m personally thinking about a used engine as preferred for my 9 when it comes to take it flying in a few years. Avoids having to compromise between test flying and engine break in. I’d rather break in the engine once I know the rest of the plane is not something to focus on.
That being said, you haven’t started building. I don’t know how detailed your budget is but I ran into all sorts of additional expenses so far and I am just starting the tanks. There are lots of smaller things I bought. A bunch of it is tools but also replacement parts for when I screwed up and things like pitot tubes, a connection kit for pitot and AoA, wiring, etc. There are a lot more things than kits, engine, and avionics to buy. You will probably spend more than you expect right now.
Right now isn’t a bad time to sell though if you can’t make the budget work. You can probably sell for more than you paid.
-Lars
A lot of truth right there. Looking back on my 9A kit and using your logic about a $4k increase being the straw that broke the camels back - I would never have gotten past the wing kit. Airplanes are expensive, there are going to be extra unforeseen cost items. If you already have the first 3 kits and are only worried about a $4k increase in the last one, you are way ahead of the game. Besides, you have a LOT of time building out the first three kits before you have to worry about the finishing kit, and even longer before worrying about the engine/panel. Unless you plan to quit your job and work 10-hour days nonstop on the airplane, you are an easy year away, at a minimum, from having a complete airframe and start worrying about engine/panel.
Get a used engine, do the rebuild yourself. Build the panel yourself and make your own cables instead of hiring it done. Learn to paint. Trade hours in the shop for dollars in the budget, you'll enjoy it more in the long run.
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This is exactly what I've had to do. I was hoping to have my plane professionally painted. Even before the bankruptcy, I had to give that up, and plan to paint it myself in sections. I too have three kits (all LCP), and ordered the finish kit over a year ago. Now I am looking at a 41% increase, that's around $7K. I'm not sure where that will come from yet, as it will eat most of my misc budget, and that will be needed for the rest of the unknowns. I am not going to let this stop me. There is also the engine deposit we have yet to see play out. It's a bitter pill, especially when its not clear how anyone but the customer is taking in the you know where (assuming they come out of chapter 11), but I'm hoping in the end, when I get to the finish line, this will be a distant memory to talk about over a beer.
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I might consider a used engine if I hadn't already paid 15K deposit for the one on order. If I walk away from that deposit I may never see it again or may wait many months for a partial or whole refund. The 4K increase isn't my concern it's the probable 15-20K increase they are likely to place on my engine that has me concerned most. My engine was 60K and I fear the new price may be closer to 80K. Maybe more if they continue with the 32% increase of everything else.
Mark Albery
Well Known Member
New pricing anomaly
I guess the new pricing had to be done pretty quickly, but I came upon a significant anomaly while looking for my ELT options.
The store offers the RV-14 ACK ELT installation kit for $1330, but if you add together the price of the components it comes to $895 and even their price on the main installation kit is about 10% higher than ACS.
I guess some algorithm treated the RV-14 kit as a Vans internally sourced item and applied an arbitrary increase, but it may be advisable to check for options before hitting the order button.
In the end I needed the international version and had to source locally to avoid the hazardous shipping costs, so only needed the $4 hardware bag.
I guess the new pricing had to be done pretty quickly, but I came upon a significant anomaly while looking for my ELT options.
The store offers the RV-14 ACK ELT installation kit for $1330, but if you add together the price of the components it comes to $895 and even their price on the main installation kit is about 10% higher than ACS.
I guess some algorithm treated the RV-14 kit as a Vans internally sourced item and applied an arbitrary increase, but it may be advisable to check for options before hitting the order button.
In the end I needed the international version and had to source locally to avoid the hazardous shipping costs, so only needed the $4 hardware bag.
hgerhardt
Well Known Member
Finally some good news from the Van's Store: as we had noted last month, the store had raised pricing on the PR wheel fairing kit by 75% (from $545 to $953). Last week, I checked pricing on those same wheel fairings and they're now $572.25, or 5% higher than November 2023. I pulled the trigger and they got shipped two days after ordering. They were listed as back-ordered, so I called and they were in stock.
