Van's Air Force
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The Newest Builder
- Thread starter DonFromTX
- Start date
Congrats
What kind of shipping arangements did you make?
Also, I remember from an earlier post that you were interested in a Skyview. Does the panel come in the finish kit or avionics kit? If it's in the finish kit, would it be better to wait on the finish kit until Vans adds Skyview (assuming they will eventually)?
What kind of shipping arangements did you make?
Also, I remember from an earlier post that you were interested in a Skyview. Does the panel come in the finish kit or avionics kit? If it's in the finish kit, would it be better to wait on the finish kit until Vans adds Skyview (assuming they will eventually)?
MacPara
Well Known Member
The panel is part of the fuse kit. The panel is split in 3 section, so when a SkyView option becomes available you could swap the left side of the panel. Shouldn't be too expensive to get that relatively small piece of aluminum replaced.
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
Shipping all at once saved me about $500, so I just went for that option, will pick it up at the truck dock when it arrives. I have plenty of space in the hangar to store stuff while I build in my double garage, and they warned me that there WILL be a price increase come 1 January and later orders.
I pressed for a skyview status, the best I could muster from them was a "we don't know anything about that" answer, and since I did not need the avionics yet, decided to wait (no shipping penalty for that and the engine). The panel space don't bother me as much as the wiring that may have to be changed.
They confirmed an 8 week lead time for shipping, so will be a while before I see any parts. I bought a complete Avery tool set from a builder that bailed out mid build on his 12.
I am after all the bells and whistles, AP, wheel pants, strobes etc etc.
I pressed for a skyview status, the best I could muster from them was a "we don't know anything about that" answer, and since I did not need the avionics yet, decided to wait (no shipping penalty for that and the engine). The panel space don't bother me as much as the wiring that may have to be changed.
They confirmed an 8 week lead time for shipping, so will be a while before I see any parts. I bought a complete Avery tool set from a builder that bailed out mid build on his 12.
I am after all the bells and whistles, AP, wheel pants, strobes etc etc.
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It looks like more than just a piece of aluminum that could be an issue!
If you have your heart set on Skyview you may want to hold short of ordering the finish kit. The fuselage wiring harness comes in the finish kit and it is installed in the bottom of the tunnel and the flight controls are installed on top of it. If this harness will be different for the Skyview, then it would be time consuming and expensive to pull it out and change it over. Homework needs to be done here, and I am not your huckleberry on Skyview for the 12, I just did enough research to see if problems exist on retrofitting it, and I think there would be problems. At least it warrants research.
If you look at the Skyview architecture you will see that it is more modular than the D180. For instance, the ADAHRS and EMS functions are in seperate modules and not in the display box like in the D180. The pitot tubing and some wiring will have to be routed to the ADAHRS which probably will be mounted behind the cockpit.
Tony
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MartySantic
Well Known Member
Buy the pneumatic drill and two additional countersink cages for the three bits you will be using and you will be a happy camper (one is included in Avery's kit).
The smaller yoke is also a nice addition.
The smaller yoke is also a nice addition.
MartySantic
Well Known Member
then.......just get two more cages!!! What kit, did not think Avery's kit included the drill?
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
The original owner of the Avery tool kit substituted the pneumatic squeezer for the hand squeezer, and then added the drill, he was selling out and cleaning house so I bought it all. I already had a couple of el cheapo drills, but wanted the Sioux. Now all I need is a pneumatic cleco pliers to finish it all off - I think!
As you probably know already, the pneumatic squeezer is a heavy and brutal tool. One limitation is that you are not supposed to use a cupped set longer than 1/8" in the top of the yoke or the tool could hurt itself. There are places on the 12 where you need to be able to switch the dies around in the yoke to be able to get on some rivets. The 12 is designed to be completely built with a hand squeezer, so you should have one. There are some places where you cannot use the pneumatic at all. But, the pneumatic will make you smile on some of the multiple 1/8" rivet jobs and is a great (but expensive) supplement to a hand squeezer. If I did not have the pneumatic then I would get a Cleaveland Main Squeeze. If I have the pneumatic than I like the Avery hand squeezer because it is less awkward than the Cleaveland because the handles don't open as wide. The Cleaveland has greater power and leaverage than the Avery because the handles open wider (not some cam juju, they both have cams). You can manipulate the Avery with one hand to get it on a rivet.
Also, you really need an adjustable set with the pneumatic, which is an option and is costly. Otherwise you have to shim the dies with washers to set different length rivets, a real PITA.
Tony
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
Thanks for sharing all that, some of which I am not even sure I totally understand yet. I was unaware that you also needed a hand squeezer, still don't fully understand that, could you give some insight on that?. My very old arthritic hands need all the help they can get, that was my reasons.
Yes, examples...
In the tailkit you will be working on the rear bulkhead which has a number of the AN470AD4 rivets. You reach several of these thru a hole in the center of the bulkhead http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/revisions/RV-12/10-04.pdf
in order to get on the furthest ones you have to use a long cupped set in the top of the yoke in order to keep the bulkhead in the center of the yoke where you get the most reach. Therefore you can't use the pneumatic because you are not supposed to use a long set in the top of the yoke. Also, I have found that you really can't use a cupped set on the ram part of the pneumatic because it moves so fast that if you are slightly off of center it will put a big smile in the round head rivet. There are a lot of those kind of rivets to squeeze on the fuselage center section and if you place the rivets with the factory head like the plan shows you can't squeeze them with the pneumatic with a cupped set in the ram without making a mess of it, in my opinion.
But, there are a lot of places where the pneumatic will be a blessing. If you have arthritic hands, then for a hand squeezer the Cleaveland would probably be best.
I would practice on some scrap material with the pnuematic squeezer and see exactly what, if any, limitations it would have for you. Also, there must be builders close to you, any type of RV, that would be glad to show you how the different squeezers work. I have visited other builders and have had several visit me, and it is a great learning experience.
Tony
OK, I can think of a couple of examples:
In the tailkit you will be working on the rear bulkhead which has a number of the AN470AD4 rivets. You reach several of these thru a hole in the center of the bulkhead http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/revisions/RV-12/10-04.pdf
in order to get on the furthest ones you have to use a long cupped set in the top of the yoke in order to keep the bulkhead in the center of the yoke where you get the most reach. Therefore you can't use the pneumatic because you are not supposed to use a long set in the top of the yoke. Also, I have found that you really can't use a cupped set on the ram part of the pneumatic because it moves so fast that if you are slightly off of center it will put a big smile in the round head rivet. There are a lot of those kind of rivets to squeeze on the fuselage center section and if you place the rivets with the factory head like the plan shows you can't squeeze them with the pneumatic with a cupped set in the ram without making a mess of it, in my opinion.
But, there are a lot of places where the pneumatic will be a blessing. If you have arthritic hands, then for a hand squeezer the Cleaveland would probably be best.
I would practice on some scrap material with the pnuematic squeezer and see exactly what, if any, limitations it would have for you. Also, there must be builders close to you, any type of RV, that would be glad to show you how the different squeezers work. I have visited other builders and have had several visit me, and it is a great learning experience.
Tony
