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The ?Laying On of Eyes?

Ironflight

VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Mentor
As a recovering Quick Builder working on an RV-3, one of the things that I find to be the most fun and the most challenging is that there are very few ?clues? to whether or not you are getting all of the details right. In a quick build kit ? or a pre-punched slow-build ? one of the best clues that you have missed something is an empty hole. There shouldn?t be empty holes (unless they are simply tooling holes) ? every hole should have a rivet or fastener of some kind. So when the big parts look done, you can sit and stare at your project, looking for empty holes, and those are clues about what work you have left to do.

But with an old fashioned kit such as a -3,-4, or -6, you don?t have those same clues leading you to more work. You have to have, or build, and understanding of what it takes to make an aluminum aircraft structure work. The old standby, AC43.13, is a great place to get a million details on rivet spacing, repairs, edge distances, etc?.but it doesn?t really tell you how things work, unless you look at it with a critical eye. In actuality, I find the greatest asset we have in building the -3 are the two already-finished RV?s sitting in the hangar with the project. You see, most of the RV?s are essentially the same 9the -10 and -12 excluded) when it comes to their basic structural design. The sizes and shapes are different of course, but the ?big picture? remains the same. I was looking, for instance, at how the bottom cockpit skins overlap on to the long lower tail cone skin, and sure enough ? the -6 is a close enough example to give me a clue what is intended. Drawings? Well, yes, we have drawings?.but for the -3, they leave a great deal to the imagination. My hats are off to those that built a -3 as their first project! Without the experience of working on the newer models, this would be challenging indeed.

Where this rambling leads is what I call the ?Laying on of the Eyes? ? something that Louise is learning by watching. Quite frankly, it involves sitting and looking at the project, quietly, and with my hands in my pockets. I study the lines of clecos and rivet holes already done, and look for gaps. The seat rib area is a great example. Five ribs, a cross-member, and a forward and aft bulkhead, all coming together in a maze of intersections. The plans give some general guidance on rivet size and spacing, then leave you to your own imagination. Rivets on the forward and aft flanges? I suppose they would be nice to rigidize the structure ? even though they are not shown on the plans! How about those little quarter-circle ribs that go on the back of the F-305 bulkhead and transition the lower fuselage from a rectangular shape to a semi-circle?well, fasten them on there some way?whatever makes sense.

I like to sit on a stool and let my eyes roam from nose to tail, looking for these little details. I can log many hours of work with only a few holes drilled or clecos installed ? it takes time to find the missing bits. It really helps to have another experienced builder staring along with you (we all know the value of this when it comes to finishing and final assembly) but it can take a long time for a new person looking at a project to get in tune with just where it is. There is (I hate to say it), a Zen-like quality about this gazing ? we tune in to what the structure needs, and where it is missing a link. After a while, you can see the loads being transferred from the wings to the fuselage, the engine to the wings, the fuselage to the tail. You can see where it needs to be stiff, and where it can flex. Understanding the structure is one of the most enjoyable things about building for me in fact ? it sure beats thinking about all of the dimpling and riveting yet to come.

I imagine that the Laying on of Eyes will continue until well after we roll the canoe, probably until the wings are on. From that point on, the rules of finishing begin to apply. Until then, I will sit on the stool and stare at the structure, learning its secrets as the parts box empties and a fuselage grows seemingly from nothing?.

Paul
 
Right on Paul

Even with a Q/B I find I am spending about equal time pondering and actually building.

I like to understand "why" not just "How" to put something together correctly.
 
Pondering

Happened to me tonight! Spent two hours in the shop trying to figure out how to install the aluminum pitot line from the pitot to the wing root. The plans show the very simple bent tube. I am installing a heated tube. So, two hours looking at every print, going back over the books, standing there just looking at things. Looking at the alignment of the wing to the side skin and guessing as to where the tube should enter, looking through by box of extra AN fittings to see what might work, and standing some more. Hmmmm.

So tonight before I go to bed, I am using the "VAF eyes" to see how others have done it. Thanks Doug for giving me all of the eyes that have looked upon pitot tube lines in the past. Thanks Mike for reminding me that I am not the only one who spends a lot of time pondering. Often times, when I stand back to look from a distance, I see those holes you are talking about Paul. Thanks for the reality check.
 
"Laying On of Eyes"

I can appreciate the concept and the mesmerizing affect. Years ago I built a Pitts Special. I had about 15-16 sheets of 11x17 prints. Each print had a "bill of materials" in the lower right hand corner. Each tube or other piece of metal was listed on the print with a -dash #. Looking on the lower right "bill of materials", that dash # would read what the part was to be made from---ie: -7 "fabricate from .125 4130 cond. N sheet". If it needed holes, they were shown, if it needed to be bent, it gave you the angle up or down.

The thing that got two of us who were building simulteneously was welding the left and right sides of mostly .035 4130 cond.N steel tubing. All the stations were given in inches from the front tubing where the firewall and engine mounts were to the tail post. Total length was give at 120 inches. We welded both sides up, got out the print that showed the vertical view and started welding the cross tubes in place. About 32in. at the front--about 34 IIRC at the cockpit and narrowing to the tail post.

When we finished welding, we dicided to measure the length down the center of the fuselageto check our work. No one told us--- it was not in the prints, nor had we the knowledge at that time to think "Bend Allowance".

Our fuselages were about 1 1/2 in. short.

Oh well adapt, make allowances and build on.
 
.....and if you sleep on it....

.....your computer (brain) won't sleep , it'll boot up and give you the answer by the time you wake up:)

Best,
 
Paul,

Your posts on building your RV-3B are a great source of inspiration and knowledge, combined with an eloquence of delivery. I look forward to reading each new post you make.

Doug, maybe there should be a VAF award similar to the Silver Snoopy Award given to members who provide outstanding contributions to the knowledge and wealth of information available on this site. If you think this is a good idea may I nominate Paul F. Dye as one of the first recipients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Snoopy_award
 
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The art of patients and critical thinking is taken to the next level with this airplane. Each piece can be assembled many different ways, but only one will result in no headaches down the road. In many cases, the plans leave it up to you to figure out which way is right.
 
I have built three slow build kits, an early RV4 and two HRIIs. Two things that I kept always in my mind were:
1. Think air
2. Think skin

Number one is self explanatory in that if the air surrounding the part has to change direction then either I have made an error or perhaps there is a better way to align the parts. These are almost always issues that would go in the tweaking category. Think air

Number two will help to ensure that the skin lines flow smoothly over the airframe. Often there can be gaps between the skin and the ribs or longerons. If riveted like that you will “see” the skin pull in at that location. It takes very little to ruin a straight line. I do not rivet my bulkheads and longerons together in a slow build kit until the skin is clecoed in place. Then I remove the clecoes from the bulkheads and let them move, or float, to the skin before I drill the final holes in the bulkheads. Often I will replace small section of rib flanges to get a perfect fit. This is faster to do then it is to add shims. I am working on a RV10 at this time and I find it interesting that the main longerons are not by themselves fastened to all the bulkheads. They are allowed to float to the skin where the rivets hold them in perfect alignment with the skin. To me this is an indication that the guy doing the CAD program is either a multiple builder or he has listened well to someone who is. Think skin
 
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Think skin

That is a GREAT way to look at it Tom!

I keep looking for whatever makes the smoothest structure. My most recent observation is that with monocoque construction, the structure is there to support the skin, but the skin is also there to hold the structure togetehr....very symbiotic. And it is all there to fool the air into thinking that the airplane isn't really there....
 
The "Laying On Of Eyes"

Paul's post has a lot more value than first meets the eye.

As I approach the end of my build, the one thing that has concerned me the most is a nagging fear, yes fear, that my ship would not measure up.

How many aircraft are not built, books not written, thoughts not shared because of that peculiariarity of human nature which tries to avoid criticism and rejection.

I recently had the good fortune to meet Karl Hamelmann of Quest Aircraft, Sandpoint, Idaho, an RV-8 flyer, VAF Member, and EAA member. Karl drove over 60 miles over into Montana and "layed on the eyes" with me. He was able to see things done long ago, when my learning curve had not peaked, things which could be re-done better and safer. It was a process I was not looking forward to, but which I would do again in a heartbeat. And Karl would not take a dime, even for expenses.

So Paul and Karl have inspired this thought:

"Fear Not The Inspector"


Mike Bauer
RV6 N918MB
Preparing for Engine Ground Runs/Inspection Punch List
Contributing to Mike Seager's Retirement Fund
 
I recently had the good fortune to meet Karl Hamelmann of Quest Aircraft, Sandpoint, Idaho, an RV-8 flyer, VAF Member, and EAA member. Karl drove over 60 miles over into Montana and "layed on the eyes" with me. He was able to see things done long ago, when my learning curve had not peaked, things which could be re-done better and safer. It was a process I was not looking forward to, but which I would do again in a heartbeat. And Karl would not take a dime, even for expenses.

Mike, many of us in the Houston and surrounding area have also benefited from Karl's experience and generosity. Karl built his -8 at Pearland Regional (KLVJ) and a number of -8 builders in the area (Paul Dye and myself included) have directly benefited from Karl's "Laying On of Eyes". While Karl did not build his -8 to be an 'award winning show plane', anyone who examines his bird will walk away with an appreciation for his quality workmanship and attention to construction detail. As I recall, some time back Karl offered his bird for sale and then took it off the market. For the benefit of anyone thinking about buying a -8, if Karl's comes back on the market... don't miss the opportunity to check it out.

BTW: Thank you Karl for your "Laying on of Eyes" and your friendship.
 
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an example

One aspect of the "Laying on of Eyes" as Paul describes it is trying to figure out what the designer (Van) had in mind. Van tries to tell us with his plans but as those who have spent hours with the old hand drawn plan sets knows, flipping from one to another to see what attaches to what and how, it really helps to understand what the designer is trying to do. Someone else said that it helps to think of the build from the inside out - the internal structure supports the skin, so ribs need to be properly positioned, bulkheads align, etc. so that the skin will fit, smoothly transition over ribs and bulkheads and find support where it is needed and with edge distances that work.
An real example of Paul's "Laying on" to see if everything looks right:
Standing and looking at the recently riveted front floor on my 6A, I saw that while the two center floor stiffeners were tied in to the spar with the fuel valve structure, the other two stiffeners outboard on each side were tied to nothing at the spar end.
That can't be right, why would the designer do that? And of course he hadn't.
For those with 6(A)s, drawing 46 "Wing/Fuselage Attachment shows a small box with dimensions for an F-699 to be made of 6061-T6, one for each side, with another box on the same page showing a section view at the spar. Pretty easy to miss without the Laying on of the Eyes. So, for all you 6, 6A builders - are the F-699s installed where they should be?
Bill Brooks
Ottawa, Canada
RV-6A finishing kit
 
Now that's a book I would buy..................... HOW TO BUILD AN RV3B by Paul F. Dye.

In nootbook form would be just fine. And a DVD from Randy's site. Do you take PayPal?
 
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