I had a guy step onto my flap yesterday. Who has experience from something like this? I have obvious damage to the left flap attachment. There is about 5 degrees difference between both flaps now and the left flap will not go into the reflex position while the other one will. There is a lot of play at the flap root. I have not had time to remove the flap but plan to do that tomorrow. If you had had something like this happen to you can pass to me what you found failed and what you ended repairing? Thanks.
Van's Air Force
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Stepped on my flap!!!!
- Thread starter Bart
- Start date
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Yep
...what Dave said. Even with "No step" decals on, they'll still get stepped on.
Best,
...what Dave said. Even with "No step" decals on, they'll still get stepped on.
Best,
Yep, my bad for not having the flaps down?.that won?t happen again. 
Since I have not removed the flap yet I?m trying to get a feel for what damage may have occurred throughout the flap system? Has there been an over stress on the flap motor? Should I check for symmetry in the control tubes? Has damage been translated into the other flap as well?
Sounds like everyone but me had the clue about leaving the flaps down but if there was another slow learner out there please weigh in?.
Since I have not removed the flap yet I?m trying to get a feel for what damage may have occurred throughout the flap system? Has there been an over stress on the flap motor? Should I check for symmetry in the control tubes? Has damage been translated into the other flap as well?
Sounds like everyone but me had the clue about leaving the flaps down but if there was another slow learner out there please weigh in?.
Paul Thomas
Well Known Member
Is the flap itself damaged or just in the wrong position? Put the flaps down and check the rod that moves them up and down. It's likely bent.
Have someone watch as you put the flaps down, no reason to do more damage.
Have someone watch as you put the flaps down, no reason to do more damage.
JoeBlank
Well Known Member
Educate them...
This will probably require an end to end flap actuator check of all of the components. Individual QB flaps are available from Van's if you need 'em.
I always try to instruct passengers to sit tight after shutting down so that I can 'assist' them in getting out of the plane. This works well for all RV models. Once I'm out and over on the PAX side, I then instruct them how to place their feet/hands to egress (Don't grab the canopy; Put your foot THERE, your hand HERE, blah blah blah).
The important point here is to have them ALWAYS face forward and back down, placing their inboard foot on the step. That way they have less of a chance of putting their heel into the flap top skin (non-RV-12). I've even had some try to jump forward off the tank!
Many times I will also demonstrate 'The Move' on how to board and de-plane the aircraft. Each aircraft has it's own version of this.
This will probably require an end to end flap actuator check of all of the components. Individual QB flaps are available from Van's if you need 'em.
I always try to instruct passengers to sit tight after shutting down so that I can 'assist' them in getting out of the plane. This works well for all RV models. Once I'm out and over on the PAX side, I then instruct them how to place their feet/hands to egress (Don't grab the canopy; Put your foot THERE, your hand HERE, blah blah blah).
The important point here is to have them ALWAYS face forward and back down, placing their inboard foot on the step. That way they have less of a chance of putting their heel into the flap top skin (non-RV-12). I've even had some try to jump forward off the tank!
Many times I will also demonstrate 'The Move' on how to board and de-plane the aircraft. Each aircraft has it's own version of this.
ppilotmike
Well Known Member
Bummer..
Man that's a bummer. I guess us plane folk never really think about that because we look for what can and can't be stepped on when boarding small planes. I agree that keeping the flaps down helps. However, that means you better have a "Flaps Up" Line in your pre-takeoff and shutdown checklists...
Man that's a bummer. I guess us plane folk never really think about that because we look for what can and can't be stepped on when boarding small planes. I agree that keeping the flaps down helps. However, that means you better have a "Flaps Up" Line in your pre-takeoff and shutdown checklists...
Update
As of today the flap has been removed and evaluated. The flap connecting rod and the bearings are very loose, the connecting rod itself it slightly bent. The good news (I guess) is that the twist or bend in the flap is hardly seeable. I had to find a straight edge long enough to measure the bend which ended being one of the I-beams on the wall in my T-hangar. Since the twist is measured only by running a piece of paper under the flap I?m satisfied that it?s not damaged to the point of replacing. With that said I?m going to replace the rod and bearings and reinstall. If the flaps rig properly I?ll take it up for a test flight and evaluate the rigging in flight. If all seems well then we?ll leave it at that. If I have issues with the rigging from a flight perspective then I guess it?s time to replace it. By the way a fast build flap is 585.00. way cheaper than a Cessna or Piper flap but still a high price to pay for buffoonery.
As of today the flap has been removed and evaluated. The flap connecting rod and the bearings are very loose, the connecting rod itself it slightly bent. The good news (I guess) is that the twist or bend in the flap is hardly seeable. I had to find a straight edge long enough to measure the bend which ended being one of the I-beams on the wall in my T-hangar. Since the twist is measured only by running a piece of paper under the flap I?m satisfied that it?s not damaged to the point of replacing. With that said I?m going to replace the rod and bearings and reinstall. If the flaps rig properly I?ll take it up for a test flight and evaluate the rigging in flight. If all seems well then we?ll leave it at that. If I have issues with the rigging from a flight perspective then I guess it?s time to replace it. By the way a fast build flap is 585.00. way cheaper than a Cessna or Piper flap but still a high price to pay for buffoonery.
I find it difficult to see how the rods and bearings (steel) could be damaged whilst the relatively fragile aluminium flap structure comes out relatively unscathed. I'm away from home and trying to visualize the fittings - doesn't the flap end of the con-rod attach to a bracket inside the flap? In which case, are you sure you haven't pulled something out of whack inside? Just a thought.
I was somewhat surprised at these findings. I suppose the majority of the weight was placed near the forward edge vice the trailing edge?.the aircraft has less than 200 hours so it?s unlikely the bearings have worn out. There are no obvious bends, cracks, oil-cannning, etc. on the flap or attach points outside of the connecting rod and bearings. The bend in the rod is very slight, the bearings all rattle and click like 20 year old bearings...meaning very loose. Rest of the system on the inside is tight and smooth through the full range. We are also fresh out of annual so the slop was not there less than a week ago. We are proceeding slowly. We?ll see what the rigging looks like once the new parts arrive and assess. Any problem at that point will result in a new flap. If everything rigs right we?ll take the next step. Apparently I?m the first one to have this happen so I thought it would be beneficial to write what we are seeing and what the road looks like back to flying again.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
At least you are the first one to talk about it, as far as I can remember.
Thanks for sharing the info with us, may be helpful to someone in the future.
Good luck with the testing.
Something else to check..
Bart,
I was looking at my flaps the other day and realized the left had more slop then the right. I remember a guy at OSH was looking at my plane with my dad, while climbing up I guess he stumbled and possible kicked the flap. I checked it out and it seemed okay at the time. I have caught a shoe on the trailing edge before too. At my 100 hour I looked over some items and wanted to get to the bottom of the slop. Everyone has a little slop from the OD of the flap bracket tubes to the ID of the outer flap tube that runs through the fuselage. I noticed my left flap had a little more so I took out my interior and side panels to see. The outer UHMW bearing that hold the flap tube were twisting at the attach point. Any person that pushes against the flap, including the relative wind drag puts pressure on these bearings and forms an oval. I don't think normal use wears these but after smacking it a few times it starts to wear. My annual will be in February and I plan on making Nylon replacements for all four of my bearings. Nylon is a lot harder and impact resistant. It also has a wide temperature range so it doesn't get brittle. To look at these you have to pull the panel in the rear passengers foot well and the side panels. look down in there at the UHMW bearing while you push forward against the lowered flap.
Bart,
I was looking at my flaps the other day and realized the left had more slop then the right. I remember a guy at OSH was looking at my plane with my dad, while climbing up I guess he stumbled and possible kicked the flap. I checked it out and it seemed okay at the time. I have caught a shoe on the trailing edge before too. At my 100 hour I looked over some items and wanted to get to the bottom of the slop. Everyone has a little slop from the OD of the flap bracket tubes to the ID of the outer flap tube that runs through the fuselage. I noticed my left flap had a little more so I took out my interior and side panels to see. The outer UHMW bearing that hold the flap tube were twisting at the attach point. Any person that pushes against the flap, including the relative wind drag puts pressure on these bearings and forms an oval. I don't think normal use wears these but after smacking it a few times it starts to wear. My annual will be in February and I plan on making Nylon replacements for all four of my bearings. Nylon is a lot harder and impact resistant. It also has a wide temperature range so it doesn't get brittle. To look at these you have to pull the panel in the rear passengers foot well and the side panels. look down in there at the UHMW bearing while you push forward against the lowered flap.
Update
Great input on those nylon blocks. I did check mine and they thankfully the show no wear.
As for my flap it was bent beyond what I felt comfortable fooling with soooo long story short... 585 dollars later a new flap easily installed and flies straight and true just like before. Final shutdown tonight was with flaps full down. Lesson learned there but in the end I think my flap installing, rigging, and general knowledge skills are superb now! Guess a trip to the paint shop is in order but for now I'll keep the silver unpainted flap on to remind to watch everyone boarding the plane.
If anyone else has a problem like this please let me know because I'm collecting the parts to make a righteous ceiling now!
Great input on those nylon blocks. I did check mine and they thankfully the show no wear.
As for my flap it was bent beyond what I felt comfortable fooling with soooo long story short... 585 dollars later a new flap easily installed and flies straight and true just like before. Final shutdown tonight was with flaps full down. Lesson learned there but in the end I think my flap installing, rigging, and general knowledge skills are superb now! Guess a trip to the paint shop is in order but for now I'll keep the silver unpainted flap on to remind to watch everyone boarding the plane.
If anyone else has a problem like this please let me know because I'm collecting the parts to make a righteous ceiling now!
