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Squeezed rivets look OK?

B

BigJohn

Well Known Member
I am definitely in "learn by doing" mode! Squeezed 10 rivets today, one went crooked, had to drill out and re-do. Seems like squeezing is more of a "feel" thing - an art not a science. Would some of you experienced types take a look at the pictures I put out on my build log and see if they look OK?

BTW, how do you include pictures in messages like this?
 
Have you checked the rivets with a gauge?

It's hard to tell with all the reflection, but the rivets look as if they may not be squeezed quite enough.
 
Thanks Mel, I was wondering about that. It takes so much pressure on the tool I was sort of afraid to squeeze them any harder. I will tighten them up a bit more. This is going really slow at this stage of the game. Almost every step is something I have not done before, so there is a learning curve, both with the operation itself, and with the use of the tools. Thanks for the help.
 
Just noticed your question about checking them with a gauge. How do you do that? Where do you get a gauge?
 
John,

Both of these are nice to have. Looking at the pictures, it appears they need a bit more of a squeeze, but the gauge will tell you for sure. Alternatively you can measure the diameter of the squeezed shop head with a micrometer (the gauge from Avery is preferred/easier). Looking good!!! Don't know if it was scientific, but, a post on the VAF forums showed test results indicating an over-squeeze was much stronger than an under-squeeze.

I also went thru the same learning experience. Ensure the squeezer surfaces are centered and in-line with the rivet, then ensure pressure is applied to the top/manufactured head before you squeeze.

http://www.averytools.com/pc-69-23-shop-head-rivet-gauges.aspx
http://www.averytools.com/pc-70-23-rivet-length-gauge.aspx
 
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Take a look at Dan Checkoway's site here:

http://www.rvproject.com/rivets.html

Good information, plus he has a link to MIL-R-47196A, which is the "bible" on riveting standards.

The gages are nice to have. You can also evaluate rivet shop heads pretty well against the 1.5D diameter, 0.5D height guidelines using a dial caliper or even a good 6" steel rule marked in 32nds and 64ths.
 
To elaborate on Johnathan's note. The "rule of thumb" spec for driven (or squeezed) rivets is the final shop head needs to be at least 1.5 times the original rivet diameter and height should be at least .5 times the original diameter.
In other words the shop head for a 1/8' rivet should be at least 3/16" in diameter and at least 1/16' tall.
 
Rivet gauge ...

You can make your own rivet gauges r-e-a-l-l-y easy... just cut a piece of .026 sheet about 1/2" wide or so and 2 to 3" long, bend one end slightly (about 1/2" or so from the tip and drill a hole equal to 1.5 x D ... for both 3/32 and 1/8" rivets. (I then round the end that has the hole in it.) These little gauges are really handy when you first start and haven't developed "the eye" for a correctly set rivet. By the time you're halfway done with the tail kit, you won't need them anymore.
 
Thanks!

As usual, you guys have come to my rescue. I have printed out the referenced article and it reaaly explains everything very well. I'm going to post it on the wall of the shop. When I get back to the project later today or tomorrow I will make a simple gauge and tighten up those 10 rivets a bit.
 
This comment is absolutely meant constructively....

If you're asking whether or not the rivets are set properly, then you should probably take a builder class to learn the fundamentals of building. Alternatively, you can have an experienced builder stop by and give some pointers for an afternoon, but some "schooling" is well worth it. There are some very basic, but very important rules to follow when building. A few dollars for a build class is nothing on a $60K airplane.

Good luck and enjoy your build! It's a LOT of fun.
 
Instructions with kit

The opening instructions that come with the kit give you enough information on how to judge correct rivet squeezing. I think they cover it very well.

John Bender
Iowa
 
BigJohn said:
I am definitely in "learn by doing" mode! Squeezed 10 rivets today, one went crooked, had to drill out and re-do. Seems like squeezing is more of a "feel" thing - an art not a science.
Click to expand...

Big John... After a while you can just tell what the shop head should look like. If you were using a rivet gun, after a while you can HEAR when the rivet is done. I think it is easier to mess up with the rivet gun. For instance, if the bucking bar is released before the gun is stopped you get an ugly. In the beginning I think the rivet gauge really does help as well as the standard rules of thumb for the shop head. Be warned. Some of the solid rivets in the kit are not perfect in length for the application and may require resorting to Military Specs. As long as the width and height of the shop head falls into the MilSpecs you can stop squeezing :) You can now buy a digital micrometer at Lowes for a reasonable price that works pretty good for measuring the shop head.

With a squeezer, keep the manufactured head pressed against the skin as you start to squeeze. Once you have the rivet started you can now concentrate on flattening the shop head to the correct size. Keeping the shop head centered and the squeezer perpendicular to the rivet will help prevent the shop head from falling off center. On a few solid rivets I actually rested one handle on a chair and use my body weight to final squeeze the rivet. Beware, if you are not centered, there is a lot of force using this technique and you can fall off center causing a mess up. Some really big rivets can be squeezed using a floor mounted powered squeezer.
 
BigJohn, I noticed you wrote the part name on them when they were done. This is a minor point for the future, but write the part number on them, and use a blue Sharpie (lasts longer). It becomes more critical (to avoid confusion) later on. Not necessarily for these parts but others.

The radii on the corners of the parts could be a tad more uniform. This is just a cosmetic thing for sure, but these parts can be seen from the outside and the more uniform they are the better the "fit & finish" of the plane will be. If your "eye and hand" are not calibrated enough yet they make nice radius gages you could use to judge your final work. A hand file is a bit more "controllable" than a die grinder for this job. Do you have a Scotchbrite wheel on a bench grinder?

Just trying to help.

Good luck, keep us posted.
 
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Addressing some of your comments.............

Steve - I looked into builder's classes as I would have liked to attend before starting, but couldn't find any anywhere near here or on a schedule that matched up with mine.

John - I agree the instructions are very good and immensely helpful. Especially the pictures of the "right" and "wrong" rivets. I think it will just take me a little while to develop an eye for the perfect squeeze.

Gandolf - Thank you for all the tips. Today I am going to make a simple gauge to check the shop end diameters.

Larry - Thanks for the observations on the corners. I looked at the pictures agian and I see what you mean. I think I was just being a little too cautious about how much material to remove. I will take another swipe at the parts today and be a little more agressive in the future. I am using a die grinder with a scotchbrite wheel to deburr. This was on the advice of my friendly local A&E who says the grinder is easier to use than the big wheel.

I almost hate to bring this up, but do you guys think it's a good idea to prime the mating surfaces of small assemblies like these before riveting?
 
Bearings turn freely?

John,
Make sure the bearings turn freely in the hinge brackets. Van's did not mill the side plates deep enough in some cases. That results in the bearings being squashed after riveting. The problem is worse in brackets that have more rivets around the bearing, like in the wing.
Joe
 
Thanks Joe,

I checked for free rotation after I finally got the bearings seated correctly and the brackets re-riveted. All seems OK. I will be watching for these problems when I get to the next set of bearing brackets.
 
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