precession
Well Known Member
Having a problem doing “slow rolls” (old terminology, now I believe simply called “competition aileron rolls” by IAC) in the RV. Nose always dropping too much, so thought I’d put this question out there for the RV aerobatics guys.
Yes, I know that when inverted you must push forward on the stick to keep the nose from dropping. So the obvious answer might just be “push forward more when inverted to keep the nose up.”
However, my impression is that the nose has already dropped too much by the time I’m even getting to inverted. And I am suspecting the reason for that is either (a) that I should have pitched up at the beginning of the roll, or (b) that the rudder size on RV’s (in my case, the RV-4) is not enough by itself to keep the nose up when in knife-edge flight. That’s where we get to my question. Is it just that my technique sucks, or is it accurate that RV’s, which have relatively small rudders compared to competition aircraft, require some adjustment in technique when doing a slow roll?
I’ve read multiple descriptions of how to do the “slow roll,” and most seem to indicate you are not to start by lifting the nose; if you make a visible nose lift, it will be a downgrade. You are usually told that what keeps the nose up in the first quarter of the roll is “top rudder.” Well, it seems to me that if I apply no up elevator whatsoever when starting the roll, and try to rely solely on top rudder in the first quarter of the roll, the rudder alone does not have enough authority to keep the nose up.
So I am suspecting that what pilots are actually doing is applying some up elevator at the beginning of the roll to pitch up somewhat, BUT HOPEFULLY NOT ENOUGH TO CAUSE A NOSE RISE THAT IS PERCEPTIBLE TO THE JUDGES.
For example, I have watched multiple videos, including this one by the excellent RV and Pitts aerobatics pilot Hans Meisler (greetings Hans!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GojqK3H8AiQ (at 4:55), and it certainly looks like a small amount of up elevator is being applied at the commencement of what I believe is a slow roll.
Here's another video of well-known aerobatics instructor John Morrissey teaching slow rolls in a Pitts, and he also starts with a little up elevator (and he even says out loud that is what he is doing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ncPJM-emCw (at 11:10).
So what’s the deal? Is that what needs to be done? You pitch up somewhat before starting the "slow roll," a/k/a competition "aileron roll"?
Yes, I know that when inverted you must push forward on the stick to keep the nose from dropping. So the obvious answer might just be “push forward more when inverted to keep the nose up.”
However, my impression is that the nose has already dropped too much by the time I’m even getting to inverted. And I am suspecting the reason for that is either (a) that I should have pitched up at the beginning of the roll, or (b) that the rudder size on RV’s (in my case, the RV-4) is not enough by itself to keep the nose up when in knife-edge flight. That’s where we get to my question. Is it just that my technique sucks, or is it accurate that RV’s, which have relatively small rudders compared to competition aircraft, require some adjustment in technique when doing a slow roll?
I’ve read multiple descriptions of how to do the “slow roll,” and most seem to indicate you are not to start by lifting the nose; if you make a visible nose lift, it will be a downgrade. You are usually told that what keeps the nose up in the first quarter of the roll is “top rudder.” Well, it seems to me that if I apply no up elevator whatsoever when starting the roll, and try to rely solely on top rudder in the first quarter of the roll, the rudder alone does not have enough authority to keep the nose up.
So I am suspecting that what pilots are actually doing is applying some up elevator at the beginning of the roll to pitch up somewhat, BUT HOPEFULLY NOT ENOUGH TO CAUSE A NOSE RISE THAT IS PERCEPTIBLE TO THE JUDGES.
For example, I have watched multiple videos, including this one by the excellent RV and Pitts aerobatics pilot Hans Meisler (greetings Hans!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GojqK3H8AiQ (at 4:55), and it certainly looks like a small amount of up elevator is being applied at the commencement of what I believe is a slow roll.
Here's another video of well-known aerobatics instructor John Morrissey teaching slow rolls in a Pitts, and he also starts with a little up elevator (and he even says out loud that is what he is doing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ncPJM-emCw (at 11:10).
So what’s the deal? Is that what needs to be done? You pitch up somewhat before starting the "slow roll," a/k/a competition "aileron roll"?
Last edited: