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Shop Basics and Harbor Freight

T

TheBoatLife

Member
I understand the old adage of “don’t skimp on cheap tools” and “you get what you pay for.” As I set up my workshop for an RV-14 build I am looking for quality aircraft specific tools, from trusted brands and companies. I’ve been reading so many opinions on this and trying to be as informed as I can be before I click the purchase buttons.

But, in terms of basic shop setup, what would you look for on the cheaper side?
Things that you should have in the shop but it’s fine to save some money on…

Such as tool organizer bins, or small parts storage?
Toolboxes, creepers, air hoses, jack stands?

What should someone that’s setting up a shop be on the lookout for that’s okay to skimp on?
 
TheBoatLife said:
trying to be as informed as I can be before I click the purchase buttons.
Click to expand...

IMHO, being well informed is not something that can be done unless you go to the store and hold the item in your hand.

However, lots of things from Harbor Fright can be used without any issues. I use their zip ties as I run wires, cut them off as needed and use more until the wiring run is complete. Then I use wire lacing for a finished produce and cut off and toss out the zip ties. Zip ties quality becomes a non issue.

They have really nice partitioned storage boxes----I use a few of them, crimp connectors, D sup pins etc, Pitot line fittings ----

The HF rivet puller worked well on our last plane. Ditto the HF die grinder.
 
My basic principle is … the more sophisticated a tool is the less likely you will find a decent version of it at Harbor Freight but I still shop there often …
 
Harbor Fright

TheBoatLife said:
I understand the old adage of “don’t skimp on cheap tools” and “you get what you pay for.” As I set up my workshop for an RV-14 build I am looking for quality aircraft specific tools, from trusted brands and companies. I’ve been reading so many opinions on this and trying to be as informed as I can be before I click the purchase buttons.

But, in terms of basic shop setup, what would you look for on the cheaper side?
Things that you should have in the shop but it’s fine to save some money on…

Such as tool organizer bins, or small parts storage?
Toolboxes, creepers, air hoses, jack stands?

What should someone that’s setting up a shop be on the lookout for that’s okay to skimp on?
Click to expand...

Stuff I wish I had bought better quality...
Drill press, grinder, disk/belt sander & band saw
Harbor Fright were part of my used tool kit and I can't bear throwing them out for new stuff. They work ok but higher quality would be better.
A forged vise is best but a Harbor Fright vise will work

Stuff I get from Harbor Fright and happy...
40 drawer bins. One bin each. Bolts, Screws, Nuts, Washers, Misc. They're all full.
Black Widow HVLP HTE spray gun. Love it. Get the adapter to use 3M PPS cups.
Their good Air/oil separator is fine
Air Fittings are fine but I use steel. Brass kept leaking
Hoses are fine but dry out and crack.
Mini regulator is ok for some stuff but it's not as good as an RTI. See below.

Other stuff they sell thats fine
Tools. I dont like more points than the fastener so I tend to buy six point sockets and wrenches whenever possible. HF doesn't sell them but their 12 point will hold for the tiny torque values on a plane.
2lb Dead blow hammer. Warranty for life. I destroyed four on my C-frame. Free replacements.
I don't care for their cabinets.
Jack stands and hydraulics are fine. I have several.
Not crazy about the cherry picker. It leaks down.
Don't care for their electrics. Marginal. I gave them to the kids. I have all Ryobi brushless 18V.
I do have a HF Dremel. It's marginal. It works.
Their angle grinder cut off disks are fine.
Test equipment isn't very accurate. DVM, Amp meter etc. I have higher end stuff.
Soldering iron isn't any good. I have a hybrid Ryobi. Works on 18V or 110V AC. Very nice.
No electronics crimpers. Use the best. DMC for D-subs. Wratchet style with dies for the other crimps.

Stuff you definately want the best...
I use a Hobby Air for spraying and a 3M Mask with #60926 filters for other chemical stuff.
CDI Torque wrenches. 1/4", 3/8" and maybe a screwdriver.
RTI 1/4" Mini Regulator for the spray gun and low pressure air equipment.
Knipex smooth jaw pliers
Milbar safety wire pliers

Other stuff, just ask. Someone here has probably tried it
 
Harbor Freight....


Northern Tools....


Sears.....


Cleaveland Tools....


In ascending order :D

Feel free to put others in and amongst !
 
Mike S said:
IMHO, being well informed is not something that can be done unless you go to the store and hold the item in your hand.
Click to expand...

I agree with that, but not knowing of a physical store to go to and pick up most of the aircraft specific tools, I’ll have to go by research online. And of course by talking to people with more experience than me, like those of you on these forums. Hopefully I’ll be as informed as I can realistically be.

I happened to be in HF for some plastic shelving and it was crowded with some sale going on, and looking at the partitioned storage boxes and parts bins is what got me thinking about this aspect of shop setup.
 
Harbor Freight Saved my bacon

Harbor freight saved me when i was installing the wings on my RV9a.

the lower spar bolts required a custom wrench, one for the left, and a mirro for the right. So 2 HF wrench sets later, and the use of a torch and grinder, the lower wing bolts were torqued. And it only cost me 2 sets of 24.95 wrench sets.
So now I have 4 open end wrench sets, 3 with the one size bent every which way, and my snap on set.

Oh ya, dont forget about the ratcheting 7/16" wrench (another HF set) to remove the wheel pants.

Harbor Freight -Crack for Dads
 
The HF 12 inch stationary disk sander seems well made and was very useful during fabrication of parts for my 14.
 
In contrast to Larry, I love my HF tool cabinet set. Probably 25% the cost of a Snap-On and I can tell no useful difference in quality or function.

With all HF stuff, it pays to read the ratings and it is often wise to avoid anything with a power cord on it unless it's so cheap as to be a throw-away (i.e. the $6 angle grinder). Their tool line has definitely gotten broader and of higher quality in the past 20 years and it's good to see the quality of our "Dad-crack" on the rise.
 
HF

I absolutely love the USGeneral 5 drawer tool cart. In fact, I have one at home and one at the hangar...and my son just bought one. For the money, quality is excellent, finish excellent, drawer slides very nice (they aren't soft close), drawer locks, decent casters and tons of magnetic accessories. Normally $279...

NOTE: These carts are now on sale for $199 and that only happens once a year!

The Good:

Pneumatic rivet puller
Dual buffing wheel (for scotch bright wheels)
Have had good luck with their $18 5500 lumen LED lights
Air hose fittings and regulators
Small drill press (light duty)
Nitrile GlovesStorage bins (for boxes I prefer Plano brand; Scheels bulk pack)
Predator Generators

The Bad:

I do not like their air hoses. Switched to Flexilla.
Spray guns are adequate for primer
Pittsburgh hand tools; I find the Quinn line is better and the Icon tools are fine.
 
Tools meant for one time use (although some have last much longer than anticipated), nitrile gloves, and paint brushes are good values there. The HVLP paint sprayer probably my best buy there; I bought it for priming parts but actually painted a car with it. Currently on sale at $10... at that price, it almost becomes disposable.
 
Tools for the New Shop

TheBoatLife said:
I understand the old adage of “don’t skimp on cheap tools” and “you get what you pay for.” As I set up my workshop for an RV-14 build I am looking for quality aircraft specific tools, from trusted brands and companies. I’ve been reading so many opinions on this and trying to be as informed as I can be before I click the purchase buttons.
But, in terms of basic shop setup, what would you look for on the cheaper side? Things that you should have in the shop but it’s fine to save some money on…
Such as tool organizer bins, or small parts storage?
Toolboxes, creepers, air hoses, jack stands?
What should someone that’s setting up a shop be on the lookout for that’s okay to skimp on?
Click to expand...

A valid set of questions for the New Shop!

In the ancient age of 1992 when I started building, there were not that many choices. I ordered from (Name Withheld to Protect a Current Supplier) that offered a "starter kit", as I recall. I have since replaced nearly EVERY tool I got from them. Their quality must have improved as they are still tool suppliers but do not buy from them. Once burned......:eek:

That said, there are many tools you have to go hold in your hand to assess their quality. I have one Craftsman, one Snap-On and one Harber Freight tool boxes and am not sure the difference. The Craftsman is so old it is starting to show some faults. I go to HF and LOOK at the tools before I buy them; hold them in my hands. Most of what I have bought, after an eyes-on assessment, is of comparable quality. They have gotten better. I have abused my light-weight electric Hercules drill. I use it for many other things than building or working on aircraft. It has not let me down.

Screw drivers and other hand tools: they have various levels of quality. I've been happy with their upper level quality plyers, dykes, screw drivers. Quinn, is I believe, their upper level.

So: go hold the tools in your hand. Which leads you away from some online ordering. Some people avoid HF just because. :cool: Cleveland Tools are a Gold Standard for what we use. Watch for people selling tools on this forum as some are not going to be building again. Ask around your airport. Selling my tools would be like selling old friends.....but I'm a bit too sensitive, I've been told!;)

Accumulating tools over the course of your build is part of the FUN of building!!:p
 
If it wasn't for HF, I might not have been able to offered building a plane. Not all tools are from HF things such as compressor or tool boxes would be just fine.
 
Modifying tools

PilotjohnS said:
Harbor freight saved me when i was installing the wings on my RV9a.

the lower spar bolts required a custom wrench, one for the left, and a mirro for the right. So 2 HF wrench sets later, and the use of a torch and grinder, the lower wing bolts were torqued. And it only cost me 2 sets of 24.95 wrench sets.
So now I have 4 open end wrench sets, 3 with the one size bent every which way, and my snap on set.

Oh ya, dont forget about the ratcheting 7/16" wrench (another HF set) to remove the wheel pants.

Harbor Freight -Crack for Dads
Click to expand...

This brings up a great point.
You will need modified tools at some point. HF is fine as mentioned. I go to the Pawn Shops. They all have bargain buckets. Usually $.25 to $1.00. I buy one each size wrench and 1/4 drive socket SAE and Metric. They are in a special tool bag. All are modified somehow. Most ground thin. Some cut, heated and bent. Point is, buy them ahead of time. It will save you destroying an expensive tool. Great for holding a jam nut while torqueing another nut. Thin wall sockets come in veey handy in tight spots. Some I also grind so only the nut fits in the socket. Great for starting a nut on a hard to reach spot.

Don't get me wrong. HF cabinets are fine. If I were rich I would buy more Snap On Cabinets. Very nice. As I am not, I will probably add a HF cabinet to the stable.
 
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HF is great for simple tools, or ones that you'll use once and toss. When I say simple, I mean fewest moving parts, think wedge ...
 

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rocketman1988 said:
I absolutely love the USGeneral 5 drawer tool cart. In fact, I have one at home and one at the hangar...and my son just bought one. For the money, quality is excellent, finish excellent, drawer slides very nice (they aren't soft close), drawer locks, decent casters and tons of magnetic accessories. Normally $279....
Click to expand...

I had been looking at those, my current tool box is already full and overflowing to the point of not being able to be well organized. So off I went to HF this morning to get one of those tool carts :rolleyes:
 
The only thing from HF I’d never get again is one of their drill presses. Almost impossible to setup and operate precisely. Their larger compressors are very good. I was able to modify one to put an air cooler and water separator between the compressor outlet and the tank for very dry air in the tank.
 
Don’t forget Craigslist

I’ve picked up some great used stuff from CL. In general, most want way too much for used tools but with patience, some great deals can be had.
My $500 brake/stand (another $100 put into it modifying)
$100 Band saw
$150 portable compressor


When comparing tools with similar features, I tend to like the older stuff. If you can stand the associated BS of dealing with the unrealistic, CL is a good way to find stuff.View attachment 46756
 

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I bought a tool from HF….. once! Never again. The tool broke in mid-use the first time. Had to go back to the store, they were happy to give me another piece of junk, but not so happy when I asked for a refund. That was a waste of time. Those were two hours I could have been making progress, instead of screwing around with an inferior tool.

On another occasion, I borrowed a HF cutter to cut some steel. The thing wouldn’t cut a straight line no matter how much I fidgeted with it. Another complete waste of time.

While I’m not quite buying Snap-On, it’s only quality tools for me, Knipex, Whia, Wera, basically almost anything German. I do like the CDI torque wrenches. I have some older Craftsman machines that are still good, but there is better stuff available. I’ve had good results with Gearwrench even though they are made elsewhere. I like them for their 84 and 120 teeth ratchets. Makes working in confined spaces a little easier.

I won’t darken HF’s door steps for my own purpose. I recently walked in one while keeping a friend company. I had a a difficult time stepping over the door threshold. Almost got sick! 😆
 
RV8Squaz said:
I bought a tool from HF….. once! Never again. The tool broke in mid-use the first time. Had to go back to the store, they were happy to give me another piece of junk, but not so happy when I asked for a refund. That was a waste of time. Those were two hours I could have been making progress, instead of screwing around with an inferior tool.

On another occasion, I borrowed a HF cutter to cut some steel. The thing wouldn’t cut a straight line no matter how much I fidgeted with it. Another complete waste of time.

While I’m not quite buying Snap-On, it’s only quality tools for me, Knipex, Whia, Wera, basically almost anything German. I do like the CDI torque wrenches. I have some older Craftsman machines that are still good, but there is better stuff available. I’ve had good results with Gearwrench even though they are made elsewhere. I like them for their 84 and 120 teeth ratchets. Makes working in confined spaces a little easier.

I won’t darken HF’s door steps for my own purpose. I recently walked in one while keeping a friend company. I had a a difficult time stepping over the door threshold. Almost got sick! 😆
Click to expand...

Obviously, you are picking the wrong items. Knowing what works from HF and what doesn’t is the key. I have bought several USGeneral tool chests from them, and they are great. The buffer I used with my scotchbright wheels is still in use today 13 years after I bought it. The pneumatic rivet puller is also still working. The mini pressure regulators work great. The Quinn hand tools aren’t bad for hangar tools, and the Icon tools are pretty decent, though probably as expensive as better brands.

I converted the 14” bandsaw to a metal cutting saw and it works great.

Point is, not everything is a good deal there but there are some deals to be had…
 
rocketman1988 said:
Obviously, you are picking the wrong items. Knowing what works from HF and what doesn’t is the key.
Click to expand...

If I have to concern myself with picking the correct items, then that is definitely not the store for me. I'd rather not waste my time that way. I'm glad it works for you and others.
 
?

RV8Squaz said:
If I have to concern myself with picking the correct items, then that is definitely not the store for me. I'd rather not waste my time that way. I'm glad it works for you and others.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean. Do you only go to stores that have the correct item, so you don’t have to concern yourself with multiple choices?

Where is this store located?:rolleyes:
 
Get good name-brand wrench sets. They are significantly better than HF's. I like Proto or Snap-On. They will last your whole life and your grandkid's, too. Plus they fit the hardware so much better than HF's.

While click-type torque wrenches are good, and some come with a digital read-out these days, you'll need either a digital read-out or the older analog beam-style torque wrench for measuring the locking (i.e., free-running) torque, which you need to add to the specified torque.

I have an older Jet drill press and a very nice Rikon band saw. The drill press was a gift but the high quality band saw was pricey. It replaces an older HF-quality one that was fairly frustrating.

I like one of HF's sheet metal snips, their LED lights, their die grinders and some other things like center-punches, even though they die. They are cheap enough to have a spare on hand.

Dave
 
Some of the most used tools in my shop are the HF wobble-drive ratchet extensions and the 45* long needle nose pliers. Also love the stubby ball-peen hammer and always have a couple of boxes of blue gloves.

Most of my hangar tools are HF and they are well-suited for the light-duty use they receive.
 
Some of the most used tools in my shop are the HF wobble-drive ratchet extensions and the 45* long needle nose pliers. Also love the stubby ball-peen hammer and always have a couple of boxes of blue gloves.

A recent purchase is the 3/8” Hercules right-angle impact ratchet….it is going to become a favorite tool.

Most of my hangar tools are HF and they are well-suited for the light-duty use they received. I don't have any interest in buying tools for the grandkids....they can buy their own stuff. :)
 
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The HF oscillating multitool worked great for cutting the canopy.
Stewart Willoughby, 6 first flight imminent!
 
HF Tools

+1 on the rolling tool cart. I have also gotten good use of their battery lug crimper. Some assorted clamps and locking plier clamps have worked well too, and I got a pelican case look alike for storing the borescope.

==Dave==
N102FM
 
Amazon

Not related to the original question.
I have found lots of really good tools cheap on Amazon.
I typically find the best by reading reviews then searxh Amazon to compare prices.
16 Ton cable terminal crimper.
Three CDI torque wrenches.
Several sets of hex and torx bits
Just another option.
 
I got most of my tools (and all the “big ticket” stuff) used from eBay and Craigslist. Researched to understand exactly what makes and models I wanted and then bought them one by one used. Saved a bunch and ended up with good name brand tools, but the downside was it took me a long time to acquire enough to do the build.
 
To me, buying quality tools is like an Evoke paint job.

1. You only cry once.
2. They will last (or work) for a lifetime and probably more.
3. They look (or work) better.

Had Craftsman tools most of my life until my son came home from A&P school with a toolbox full of Snap-On tools. The difference was obvious. I began to watch CL until I found an estate sale of tools from a car shop. Bought two large toolboxes full of mostly Snap On tools for less than the list price of one of the toolbox stacks alone. The tools and toolboxes were well utilized and dirty, but cleaned up fine and were well worth the cost. I will hand them down to my son when I'm done, along with a few Snap On tools I inherited from my dad.
 
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Harbor Freight - Hit or miss

I have a variety of Harbor freight tools as well as others for a variety of tasks.
The air tools have been hit or miss. The 3/8" drill was absolutely horrible. On the other hand, the angle die grinder continues to work well. I run it with a scotch brite pad and it is my go to for deburring.

When I was building my garage and the oscillating multi-tool came out, I bought the HF version as I wasn't sure how much I would use it. I ended up wearing it out. I got my $30 worth out of it. I then bought the Rockwell version as I thought the feature set of that was the best value.

I have some of the HF tool boxes and they seem to work well. I also recently bought a Kobalt from Lowes as it was the size and setup that I wanted.

I have bought a variety of tools over the years on Craigslist. The deals are few and far between lately...... As with anything used, look for issues (bearings, cracks, etc....)

A saying that sticks in my mind: The memory of poor quality sticks for far longer than the higher cost of a quality tool. (or something to that effect)

-- Brad ---
Building a RV-10
Currently a Cherokee driver -- Vintage Cherokee Club at S37 - Smoketown, PA
 
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My main “wrench” sets are SK. About half the cost of Snap-on and almost as nice.
I also have a Snap-on FOD Aircraft Soft Bag Tool Kit I picked up on CL for $1500, about 1/4 the retail cost, so deals can be found if you’re lucky. That set saves me anguish all the time, especially the “Cromwell” Offset Wrench’s. Snap-on wrenches are thinner and more ergonomic and you can get them into places that other wrenches and sockets just don’t want to go, especially handy FWF. This set, or parts of it, travel with me.
That said, I purchased a 270 piece “Husky” tool set, with case, from HD on sale for around $100. I think that set retails for under $200. These are my “barn” tools for basic wrenching on my tractors, dump truck, Gator, etc…. I am very impressed with the quality of the castings and finish. I have no doubt they can easily handle an RV build and most maintenance items. They are fatter and thicker but still pretty darn nice. That’s the price of one Snap-on socket wrench. If you’re on a budget, start there.
As far as tool boxes, my Snap-on box is a thing of beauty. Heavy, can’t be overloaded, drawers slide like butter, just a work of art and engineering. I also have an older Crafstman, and a Kodiak (Cobalt). They work fine and cost fractions of what the Snap-on does.
You can usually find tool boxes of all flavors on CL. I got my Snap-on there at about 1/3 cost of new. Still expensive.
 
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