RV12iS range question and flight to Alaska

[mhailey]

I am getting excited about my almost completed new 12iS. I have a question/project for actual operators. I plan on using the aircraft primarily for hamburger runs and occasional easy cross countries in the lower 48, but I would like to go to Alaska. Hopefully this thread will spur some discussion on range and possibly how to increase the range of our aircraft.

I would like to plan a flight along the Pacific coast from Bellingham to Ketchikan nonstop. I have flown this route several times in my previously owned 182RG, and it's about 550 nm. If you have foreflight and have a good fuel consumption model loaded this should be pretty easy.

Keep in mind that alternates are fairly distant. Klawock, Wrangell are really the best options. I always figured if Ketchikan went down for weather, or worse a closed runway I wanted to be able to get to an alternate with a little more than fumes.

I prefer not Stopping in Canada for various reasons, but primarily Basic Med, and US customs.

 

[climberrn]

Just researching that route, for personal reasons. $10.75 fuel in Ketchikan

 

[RV8JD]

I prefer not Stopping in Canada for various reasons, but primarily Basic Med, and US customs.

Unfortunately, flying in Canadian airspace, even without landing, is not allowed for a pilot with BasicMed.

https://copanational.org/flying-in-canada/trans-border-operations/flying-to-canada/

"BasicMed – Flying in Canadian Airspace

Due to the non ICAO-compliant nature of the BasicMed regime, Transport Canada does not currently allow aircraft to be operated in Canadian airspace by U.S. pilots flying under BasicMed. This includes transiting without landing (i.e. to/from Alaska). COPA is currently collaborating with AOPA and Transport Canada on a way forward which would allow certain BasicMed operations that comply with the restrictions imposed on Canadian Recreational Pilot Permit Holders."​

 

[Phyrcooler]

Unfortunately, flying in Canadian airspace without landing is not allowed for a pilot with BasicMed.

https://copanational.org/flying-in-canada/trans-border-operations/flying-to-canada/

"BasicMed – Flying in Canadian Airspace

Due to the non ICAO-compliant nature of the BasicMed regime, Transport Canada does not currently allow aircraft to be operated in Canadian airspace by U.S. pilots flying under BasicMed. This includes transiting without landing (i.e. to/from Alaska). COPA is currently collaborating with AOPA and Transport Canada on a way forward which would allow certain BasicMed operations that comply with the restrictions imposed on Canadian Recreational Pilot Permit Holders."​

Apparently it’s not a priority on either side. From something I read a couple months ago, it has been “getting fixed” for 6+ years since Basic Med went into effect. I was curious/researching as I would like to fly the same route, and have Basic Med.

Something as simple as a designated port of entry (if they required) and a daytime/VFR flyway to allow US Pilots to transit to our northern state shouldn’t be that difficult. But… politics. Or maybe I should say “Bureaucracy”!

 

[BobTurner]

+2. No basic med in CA airspace is a real issue. Most likely you wouldn’t get caught -unless wx forced a landing in CA. Then, there’d likely be real problems. When I still had a second class medical, I once planned on the direct route (southbound). But Ketchican was below ifr minimums, so that plan got thrown out. Good thing, as widespread imc with embedded thunderstorms developed later that day over northwestern WA. As you mentioned, alternates are few and far between on the direct route. The ‘trench’ route thru western Canada offers more alternates, as well as some beautiful scenery. Watson Lake had a great campground (as long as it isn’t mosquito season!). If I ever go again, I think I’ll just bite the bullet and go and get a third class medical. And then, as soon as I can, go back to basic med. Question for the brain trust: Is there a way of ‘turning in’ a 3rd class medical? Should I develop a future medical issue I’d much rather be governed by basic med rules than third class rules.

 

[RV8JD]

Question for the brain trust: Is there a way of ‘turning in’ a 3rd class medical? Should I develop a future medical issue I’d much rather be governed by basic med rules than third class rules.

For my last several medicals, I asked my AME if he would issue a Third Class Medical and also sign the BasicMed paperwork at the same visit. And he has done so willingly after asking why. I told him I needed the Third Class in case I wanted to fly into Canada, that I may want to just revert to BasicMed after my Third Class ran out (to take advantage of the extra two years of BasicMed), and for the flexibility (e.g., if we have another pandemic and everything is shutdown when the Third Class Medical expires). So for the last many years I've held both at the same time.

 

[BobTurner]

For my last several medicals, I asked my AME if he would issue a Third Class Medical and also sign the BasicMed paperwork at the same visit. And he has done so willingly after asking why. I told him I needed the Third Class in case I wanted to fly into Canada, that I may want to just revert to BasicMed after my Third Class ran out (to take advantage of the extra two years), and for the flexibility. So for the last many years I've held both at the same time.

So my question is: if, while holding both at the same time, you developed a problem - let’s say you had a pacemaker implanted - could you continue flying under basic med (if you met the requirements) even though your class 3 med might be invalid (because you no longer met the requirements)?

 

[rv6n6r]

So my question is: if, while holding both at the same time, you developed a problem - let’s say you had a pacemaker implanted - could you continue flying under basic med (if you met the requirements) even though your class 3 med might be invalid (because you no longer met the requirements)?

"Under 14 CFR 61.53, you must not fly if you know (or have reason to know) of a medical condition that would make you unsafe to fly."

That applies whether you are operating under BasicMed or FAA medical.

Other than that, if you have a BasicMed then you can fly under those privileges whether or not you also have a 3rd class, ref. https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/media/basicmed_faq.pdf.

Disclaimer: Not an expert, just sharing what I've learned as a holder of both 3rd Class / BasicMed.

 

[mhailey]

I'm sorry this thread got sidetracked into a Basic Med discussion. Please can we just assume either Basic Med get's fixed, or I have a Third Class Medical.

 

[vic syracuse]

You mentioned you have flown the route many times, so you clearly understand the risks. I have flown it multiple times in our RV-10. The weather forecasting leaves a lot to be desired. We’ve left Bellingham or Yakutat multiple times headed to Ketchikan with the forecast being for great VFR and have ended up shooting approaches to minimums. That’s on 3-3.5 hour legs. The 12iS will take an hour or two longer. It also seemed that when Ketchikan was IFR, so was Juneau, which would be about an hour further north at least. As you noted, there are a few airports in Canada that might work.

I wouldn’t talk you out of it, but I would take more fuel than the standard tank and stay in touch with ATC or FSS during the trip so you can make the decision to turn around if necessary.

The IFR routes are offshore and the MEA’S are around 7k’. My experience is that the icing levels have always been lower than forecast. The 10 has a heated pitot tube which allows us some time to get out of the icing, as it happens fast. The 12 does not have provisions for a heated pitot, so that’s another factor to consider.

Go during low tide and follow the inland waterways and there is usually a beach available to set down if necessary. Make sure to take survival gear.

Vic

 

[Piper J3]

I understand conquering challenges... but also nice to see grandchildren grow up. The 12 doesn’t sound like premier machine for this mission.

 

[mhailey]

You mentioned you have flown the route many times, so you clearly understand the risks. I have flown it multiple times in our RV-10. The weather forecasting leaves a lot to be desired. We’ve left Bellingham or Yakutat multiple times headed to Ketchikan with the forecast being for great VFR and have ended up shooting approaches to minimums. That’s on 3-3.5 hour legs. The 12iS will take an hour or two longer. It also seemed that when Ketchikan was IFR, so was Juneau, which would be about an hour further north at least. As you noted, there are a few airports in Canada that might work.

I wouldn’t talk you out of it, but I would take more fuel than the standard tank and stay in touch with ATC or FSS during the trip so you can make the decision to turn around if necessary.

The IFR routes are offshore and the MEA’S are around 7k’. My experience is that the icing levels have always been lower than forecast. The 10 has a heated pitot tube which allows us some time to get out of the icing, as it happens fast. The 12 does not have provisions for a heated pitot, so that’s another factor to consider.

Go during low tide and follow the inland waterways and there is usually a beach available to set down if necessary. Make sure to take survival gear.

Vic

Those are all good points. Over the years that I have flown in SE Alaska the best weather tools are the satellite picture, and the numerous FAA Webcams. https://weathercams.faa.gov/map/-136.26477,54.37606,-127.82727,56.68217

Your exactly right about icing. I would say flying in IMC in that area without deicing is foolish. Even in the warmest months the MEA can be in the ice.

I'm looking at the Mod made by one of group. The addition of the 6 gals of gas would make this much more comfortable.

 

[Stuart Grant]

RV-12 Range

If considering the added gas mod for more range, wonder if the approved tank inspection port shown in SL00070 released January 2023 might be a good fuel inlet from a transfer tank.