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RV Dreaming

aarvig

aarvig

Well Known Member
Well, what do I say. I don't even have a pilots license yet and I want to build an RV-7A. Why, because I love aviation and I love Vans aircraft. I have always been passionate about aviation, however, with two kids under 3 and one due in August the extra time required to learn to fly has not been readily available. So, I think spending any free time that I have building my own airplane would be a worthwhile endeavor. I have experience building rc airplanes so I understand the basic structure of an airplane but I know nothing about riveting, metal working, real aviation engines, avionics or wiring!! Where do you recommend a person start? What kind of tools do I need to get started on the empennage kit? What kind of shop set-up can I go with initially? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for all your responses.
 
First off

Depends on what experience you think you will have before you finish your airplane.

The RV 7a is a high performance airplane, I would really not recommend anyone with less than say 200 hours try to fly one..Others will disagree.

The insurance (if you can get it) will kill you unless your rich!..

A better choice is to learn on C152/172's get your private licesnse and a couple of hundred hours then transition to the 7.

Or build a 9 and transition sooner.

As to building I had a 24*24' shop and that was adequate, you can get away with less.

i would purchase the plans/build manual...Lots of good info in there to get you started.

Building a Vans kit is not hard ...Its preseverance thats the problem as its a LOT of work..

Frank
 
I agree with that. I plan on getting my license while I am building the plane and building time in a C152/172 like you said. I am giving myself 7-10 years to finish the project and get my license/build time. Hopefully, by the end of that period I have acquired the 200 hrs or so needed to ease my transition into the plane I have just hopefully finished building. Am I being unrealistic?
Thanks
 
You're not being unrealistic. Just start at the beginning, and one day you'll be at the end. If something comes up in the meantime, the airplane and the flight training will wait. They're both very patient.

My 2 cents.

Guy
 
Make sure you don't get AIDS. (Aviation induced divorce syndrome) Get you pilots license first just to make sure you really like flying and also to get the wife onboard if she likes flying. There is nothing you can't learn while building your RV. The instructions are very good and there is a lot of help out there. As far as the time required to check out in a tri-gear RV 100hrs is fine to get going and should only take 5-10hrs for check out. We have two guys with 6As here that had around 100hrs and insurance only required a 5hr minimum check out and 5 hours solo after that. The rates were only a couple hundred bucks over a higher time pilot and went down to normal after the first year. Another friend built a 8A and had just finished his PPL with 60hrs TT. Got him checked out in less than 10 hrs and he has been flying it for over 3 years now. Don
 
yakdriver said:
Make sure you don't get AIDS. (Aviation induced divorce syndrome) Get you pilots license first just to make sure you really like flying and also to get the wife onboard if she likes flying.
Click to expand...

Trying really hard to avoid that. I got as close as I ever had last night to her saying yes. I believe the direct quote was, "It would be nice to be able to visit our family on short weekends since it's so hard to get off at work. But I wouldn't be ready to do that for another year." Really!?!? Well then I went and opened my big mouth this morning about maybe moving up the timetable; that didn't go over well. I think I need to learn when to keep my big mouth shut.

I'm just a little bit ahead of where you are now. I got my first ride in an airplane in an RV-4; that pretty much sealed the deal. I wanted to build an airplane before I even learned to fly. "You don't even have a pilot's license!" my wife said. Well now I do and it's soooooo hard not to pull the trigger. All things that are worth having are worth waiting for. It was true for her and I'm sure it'll be true for an RV.
 
Go ahead and place the order.

As they say, "It is easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission."

In other words, go for it and clean up the mess later. Worked for me and I have no regrets. :D
 
It can be done, I also have young children and don't want to miss out on them growing up or get a divorce. Getting up everyday at 4am has worked great for me and I'm just about to start on my finishing kit. (Do it while the kids are sleeping) Just over 1500 hours over the last 18 months.

Go for it! Your next step will be working out the financial impact. It's not cheap.
 
OK, so I am not alone! That makes me feel better. I am a little on the young side compared to everyone else on this forum (33). This is something my wife likes to remind me of...just wait till you are older and have more time!! But alas, life is not a guaranteed thing so I don't believe in waiting for the "right moment" because it may never come. I trained for a marathon while the kids were sleeping, why can't I build an airplane while they sleep? I like that idea. OH, my wife got a real kick out of yakdrivers comment on AIDS. I believe the quote was "I like that guy." Well the best thing I have going for me is that both of my little tots absolutely love airplanes. My daughter is three and can identify boeings, cessnas, bombardiers and the like. So maybe I can put her to work bucking rivets right? I am shooting for a start date of next fall! Thanks for the imput people!
 
Cool

5 year olds are perfect for bucking rivets from inside the tail cone...You might want to plan the project around that..:)

All the best

Frank
 
FIRST step

boom3 said:
Go for it! Your next step will be working out the financial impact. It's not cheap.
Click to expand...

A financial plan should be first on your list of things to do (especially getting buy-off if married). I've seen many kits sold because the builder hadn't thought out how to finance the whole project. It just gets more expensive as you go, and starting without a good project funding plan (with spousal approval ahead of time) is a catastrophe waiting to happen.
Just my $0.02
 
aarvig said:
OK, so I am not alone! That makes me feel better. I am a little on the young side compared to everyone else on this forum (33). This is something my wife likes to remind me of...just wait till you are older and have more time!!
Click to expand...


You're not younger than everyone here. I was 33 when I started, I'm hoping to fly this fall, < 4 years later. Nothing in life is guaranteed--get moving. Make sure you're up front about the costs though; both financial and personal. Luckily I have a wife that understands pursuing one's dreams.

It also helps that she's in residency and works 80+ hours a week. That means I have to take care of most of the household stuff, but it also means I can work on the plane without abandoning her.

Really though, all you're committing to do is start. You can be as flexible as needed if you start with that mindset.
 
You're definatley not the youngest. I know there are at least a few builders on here with finished airplanes under 30. I'd love to be one of them.
 
flytoboat said:
A financial plan should be first on your list of things to do (especially getting buy-off if married). I've seen many kits sold because the builder hadn't thought out how to finance the whole project. It just gets more expensive as you go, and starting without a good project funding plan (with spousal approval ahead of time) is a catastrophe waiting to happen.
Just my $0.02
Click to expand...

A financial plan is a must. Just figure that everything will cost twice as much and take twice as much time than you figure then you will be set. Don
 
flytoboat said:
A financial plan should be first on your list of things to do (especially getting buy-off if married). I've seen many kits sold because the builder hadn't thought out how to finance the whole project. It just gets more expensive as you go, and starting without a good project funding plan (with spousal approval ahead of time) is a catastrophe waiting to happen.
Just my $0.02
Click to expand...

What are some good ideas? The configuration I would like to build is an IO-360 with 180 or 200 HP and day/night VFR. Any experience out there on how much this typically costs and are there shortcuts one can take to save some bucks? Also, did you guys pay cash as you go, finance, beg, steal or what is the typical way to pay? Any ideas on how to get approval through the CFO (wife)? She really is fine with it I just think that she would rather me wait till I was a few years older with less familial obligation. Bob Collins wrote an article in Kitplane that I enjoyed. Family first, flying after was the gist.
 
$80000 is a good starting number for a new IO-360, vfr, QB Rv-7. Can it be completed for that?...some can, some can't. cruise the classified to find leftovers, (many brand new) be flexible and ready to adjust to new ideas. Have cash available for the items you know you are going to use. don't buy some things too early, plans change.


A plan is a must. But this is experimental, so you are allowed to deviate a bit.

My plan was
1. pay-as-I-go
2. minimal family life impact during the build
3. 24 months build time

Deviations
1. doing good on pay as I go, but have re-figured I will need to sell a kidney or get a loan to purchase the engine in this lifetime
2. hasn't impacted my family life....wife is back to college and has no time for me anyway. Kids are grown and gone.
3. 18months gone, 6 to go. but in reality will need another 12-18months to finish.

Rv formula: (budget + time)X2+determination = finish airplane

By spending too much time at VAF, I have managed to keep my budget intact(actually under budget on most items) and since I am going slow, I am able to surf buildersites which helps minimize mistakes,do-overs, shipping costs.
 
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I am just getting started. Before I could even think about a step like this, we had to

a) move to get my wife closer to family
i) that worked out great, since she got a big raise
b) Buy her a dream house
i) I got a shop area

Now I am getting my shop/benches set up in the new space, and hope to order my -10 empennage with a bonus check due soon.
 
Planning

aarvig said:
What are some good ideas? The configuration I would like to build is an IO-360 with 180 or 200 HP and day/night VFR. Any experience out there on how much this typically costs and are there shortcuts one can take to save some bucks? Also, did you guys pay cash as you go, finance, beg, steal or what is the typical way to pay? Any ideas on how to get approval through the CFO (wife)? She really is fine with it I just think that she would rather me wait till I was a few years older with less familial obligation. Bob Collins wrote an article in Kitplane that I enjoyed. Family first, flying after was the gist.
Click to expand...

My main point is to know up front what it will cost to build and fly the plane when completed so there are no surprises. If you and your spouse are aware of all the costs and agree to it, you are way ahead of the game. There is a cost estimator on Van's website. I believe it may be a little optomistic so I have compensated somewhat.
I am paying as I go for the airframe construction which I hope to have complete by Dec 2010 when I retire. At that time, I will need to finance the engine and panel, but will have money available from investments to pay that bill. I also already have a flying/mainetance budget in place for when the plane is finished. The only issue at this point is the price of fuel.:eek: I may have to get a part time job to help pay for flying.:rolleyes:
I might also add that I am not married so the only person I have to convince is me.:p My girlfriend is supportive and has finished a practice project and will help when needed. She also loves to travel although she has never been in a small plane. I am going to get her a ride in an RV-6A soon and she is going to OSH with me this year.
Good Luck!
 
RV7A project for sale

With both cost and time a factor, you may wish to consider getting a jump start on both with a partialy completed project. I have an RV7A QB project with the tail section, wings and fuselage about 90% complete. Almost all the metalwork is done and the canopy is complete. I also have an 0-360 engine built and tested by Dons Dream Machines with Lasar ignition and a sensenich prop. I have added two Duckworks landing lights, the Gretz pitot tube and the Tru-Trac autopilot.

There is still a lot of work to do (fiberglass, gear, instruments, interior, electrical etc), but you would be way ahead. Much of the work was done under the supervision of Ron Alexander's Alexander Technical Center in Griffin Georgia.

I also have numerous tools for sale, wing cradle, engine hoist etc.

Cost for you at today's prices for all this would be over 58,000. I have the project advertised on Barnstormers for $48,000 obo.

If this interests you, check out the Barnstormer's site and email me.

At any rate, good luck with your decision. Though I am forced to sell due to financial reasons :( , if I had it to do again, I would go with an RV. They are amazing airplanes.

Raymond Carter
Rock Spring, GA
[email protected]
 
You are not alone

I'm in the same boat with 3 kids under 6 years old. I am lucky in that my wife is fully supportive and even got her PPL in college. She just kind of shakes her head when I tell her how much certain components are or what tool I need/want. I think she gets a twisted satisfaction seeing her friends reactions when she tells them what I am doing. "he's doing what? .....a real one????" etc.

The commitment I made to myself was to not let this adversely effect the family, financially or emotionally. Just make sure you think it through, add 20 percent and hit it! good luck
 
Thanks for all the imput everyone. Lot's of good advice. I plan on getting the preview plans soon so I can read it "cover to cover" and find out what I am in for over this winter. Then if all goes well, next summer I will order the empennage and start bucking rivets by fall.
I'd love to do it this summer but with a third child due in August there is no way it will happen.
In the mean time I will be reading the forums and build thread pages to learn as many tricks as I can before starting. I have also met some local builders who have already offered there building assitance in exchange for pizza and pop. (Maybe I should open an account at pizza hut?:D)
 
One of the reasons I elected to build a -9 over a -7 was I figured the engine choice could save me a lot of cash. In the end, my entire FwF cost was around $7,500.

For that what did I give up? Ok, the -9 isn't acro capable and with only 135 HP up front I can't go 200 MPH like a -7 but I'm still out running 172's and can lift more than I ever thought possible.

A simple VFR panel can be done for cheap. Think Dynon D180 tied to a handheld GPS, a radio, intercom, transponder, and ELT and you are good too go with lots of room to upgrade later.

You could build a nice plane for around $50K.

Oh, and tip-up tail draggers are not only cheaper and lighter, they are the best looking of all the RV's, IMVeryHO! :p

The one thing that caught me by surprise was how much the tools cost. Budget an extra $100 a month on tools. The starter kits are just that, starter kits, you will need a lot of additional tools. To this end, check around and see if there is anyone in your EAA chapter that will lend you their tools. Lots of times there is a retired guy who is looking for something to do and will be over every night to help you and to keep the project moving.

To answer your question, pay as you go.
 
Lots of times there is a retired guy who is looking for something to do and will be over every night to help you and to keep the project moving.


Wish I could find that guy, anyone west of St. Louis out here in the sticks?
 
We're DEFINITELY in the same boat!

A few thoughts:

  1. I'm as giddy and impatient as you.
  2. I too do not yet have my pilot's license.
  3. Speaking of PPL. I just received my first ride in an RV, an RV-6 tip up 150hp. The airplane was recently finished by a guy who does not have his PPL either. He started the project 14 years ago when his wife had a PPL and thought she would fly it but life took a different path. He is actually using this airplane as his primary trainer and has about 25 hrs in it. His CFI gives him free instruction if he (CFI) can fly it for the cost of gas.
  4. I'm 34 years old.
  5. I have two kids, 7 and 9.
  6. Unfortunately, my wife does not sound as supportive as yours (any advice on how to get her excited about it would be very welcome).
  7. I too want to build an RV-7, tip up, CS prop, 200 hp.
  8. I too cannot afford this **** thing.......
  9. Another thing you need to do is go to http://www.rvproject.com. Once you are there, commit yourself to viewing EVERY SINGLE ONE of Dan's builder's log pages. I think this took me close to a week at a couple of hours every night. He has a very comprehensive builders log and it really gave me an idea of the effort and time commitment necessary. If it took me a week to LOOK at his pictures imagine how long it took to actually build.
  10. Too bad you and I don't live next door to each other so we could split the expenses (any builders in Wichita, KS interested in a partnership?) and our wives could entertain each other while we build:D

More thoughts to come later. Gotta pick the kids up from daycare....

Tailwinds,

"Pounder"
 
keepup said:
A few thoughts:

  1. I'm as giddy and impatient as you.
  2. I too do not yet have my pilot's license.
  3. Speaking of PPL. I just received my first ride in an RV, an RV-6 tip up 150hp. The airplane was recently finished by a guy who does not have his PPL either. He started the project 14 years ago when his wife had a PPL and thought she would fly it but life took a different path. He is actually using this airplane as his primary trainer and has about 25 hrs in it. His CFI gives him free instruction if he (CFI) can fly it for the cost of gas.
  4. I'm 34 years old.
  5. I have two kids, 7 and 9.
  6. Unfortunately, my wife does not sound as supportive as yours (any advice on how to get her excited about it would be very welcome).
  7. I too want to build an RV-7, tip up, CS prop, 200 hp.
  8. I too cannot afford this **** thing.......
  9. Another thing you need to do is go to http://www.rvproject.com. Once you are there, commit yourself to viewing EVERY SINGLE ONE of Dan's builder's log pages. I think this took me close to a week at a couple of hours every night. He has a very comprehensive builders log and it really gave me an idea of the effort and time commitment necessary. If it took me a week to LOOK at his pictures imagine how long it took to actually build.
  10. Too bad you and I don't live next door to each other so we could split the expenses (any builders in Wichita, KS interested in a partnership?) and our wives could entertain each other while we build:D

More thoughts to come later. Gotta pick the kids up from daycare....

Tailwinds,

"Pounder"
Click to expand...
Well, its nice to see that someone is in the same boat as me. As to your question about how I got the wife on board...well I may as well lay it out on the table. I have to shame:eek:! I worked through my kids!!:D I got my two tots interested in aviation at a very young age. My daughter (3) and my son (2) absolutely love anything that flies. On Saturday I took my daughter for her first GA airplane ride in a Cirrus SR-20 GTS-she absolutely loved it. Now she runs around the house with the Kitplane magazine and says, "Mommy, thats the plane that daddy is going to build for me!":D My wife has nothing to say against that!! I also told my wife that I would involve my kids in the building process so they could learn how a plane works from the inside out. I explained that this would be an excellent way to stimulate many facets of learning (Science, Math, Mechanics, Ethics, Organization, Problem Solving, Electrics, Aeronautical Engineering) so that by the time the plane was built the kids would be on their way to some ivy league school:rolleyes:! Everynow and again if she gets mad at me she threatens to pull the plug on the project so it helps to keep me in line. So in this regard it is serving both of us quite well!!
I had my first ride in an RV 6 three weeks ago with Jim Lenzmeier, treasurer of the MN wing of the VAF. He absolutely sold me on the plane and he has a BEAUTIFUL BIRD.. WELL BUILT.
To bad we didn't live closer...I'd team up in a minute because I want to build the exact same plane. I'll make you a deal. Whoever finishes first can do their first cross country to KS or MN and buy the other a burger!
Good Luck!
 
Dreamin'

aarvig said:
Well, its nice to see that someone is in the same boat as me. As to your question about how I got the wife on board...well I may as well lay it out on the table. I have to shame:eek:! I worked through my kids!!:D I got my two tots interested in aviation at a very young age. My daughter (3) and my son (2) absolutely love anything that flies. On Saturday I took my daughter for her first GA airplane ride in a Cirrus SR-20 GTS-she absolutely loved it. Now she runs around the house with the Kitplane magazine and says, "Mommy, thats the plane that daddy is going to build for me!":D My wife has nothing to say against that!! I also told my wife that I would involve my kids in the building process so they could learn how a plane works from the inside out. I explained that this would be an excellent way to stimulate many facets of learning (Science, Math, Mechanics, Ethics, Organization, Problem Solving, Electrics, Aeronautical Engineering) so that by the time the plane was built the kids would be on their way to some ivy league school:rolleyes:! Everynow and again if she gets mad at me she threatens to pull the plug on the project so it helps to keep me in line. So in this regard it is serving both of us quite well!!
I had my first ride in an RV 6 three weeks ago with Jim Lenzmeier, treasurer of the MN wing of the VAF. He absolutely sold me on the plane and he has a BEAUTIFUL BIRD.. WELL BUILT.
To bad we didn't live closer...I'd team up in a minute because I want to build the exact same plane. I'll make you a deal. Whoever finishes first can do their first cross country to KS or MN and buy the other a burger!
Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Add one more of the same.
I got the PPL first because I wanted to be sure my wife would love flying as much as I always have. It also made it easier to budget for one project at a time. The PPLSEL is done. My wife and I flew several times. She loves it and understands the time savings flying for travel instead of driving. I was waiting for retirement (2 years) to start building, but if I can move somd **** out of the garage, I could start the tail sooner. Budget notwithstanding. :D
 
Another dreamer here as well

Working on the PPSEL at the moment. About 1/2 done. I've got a 24 x 24 garage that is adequate for this project and I've always wanted to build an airplane.

In the 80's, when I was much, much younger (18), I wanted to build an ultralight. Then it was the Vari-ez or Long-ez by Rutan. Finally, by the will of the gods, I found Van's. Love at first site!

The planes are just freakin' awesome and I'd rather work with metal. The build community is second to none and the aircraft are reliable and very well designed. Right now, I'm leaning towards the 7A with a tip-up. I've not had any time in a taildragger and might be persuaded to go the 7 route if I get some tail time.

But, like you, I'm pretty itchy so I ordered the preview plans and built the EAA workbench (Tim Olson variation). Figure I can lay the plans on the table and do some reading/praying every night until the empennage kit shows up at my door.
 
I'm 23, can't afford any of this ****, but still am here. I'm being unrealistic, you aren't. I just picked up my second project, and half-done RV-4 for pretty cheap, so the -7 gets put on the back burner for awhile, now to make some money...
 
I am 26, single, and I have a good paycheck, but I still live with my mom.

I've been considering to build the plane before buying the house. But I got afraid my family puts me in a hospital for crazy people.

So I decided to build the house first. I have the lot. And will build just a bedroom, home theater room and a very big space (36x23 feet) where will work my temporary kitchen and will build the ship. After finishing the plane, this room will be used as a gaming room (billiards and so). Then I finish the house.

I'll build -10 (I think)
 
Hey guys, here are my thoughts on pursuing dreams:

Just remember to be thankful that you have a passion in your life. I have a good job and a good paycheck, but I get really freaked out every time I fork over a big chunk of income towards a dream. But every time it's been worth it.

My dreams have been varied and I've done/accomplished a lot of crazy things. I won't go into it because it can sound braggadocious. Suffice to say that my friends never understand and most think I'm crazy.

The tradeoff is that I drive a dumpy car with a spare tire, I don't drink, I don't eat out, I wear the same clothes to work every day, I have two roommates, no house, and over half of my paycheck is automatically deducted into "savings" (some for retirement, most for "extravagant" expenses).

Somebody once told me that on your deathbed, you're not going to regret spending that extra thousand dollars. Be thankful that you're one of the lucky ones who has a real desire to accomplish something extraordinary, and go for it. What's worse than a life lived in mediocrity?



Full disclosure: Single, no kids.
 
Step One Complete!!

OK, I officially have one foot (and credit card :D) in the Vans RV pool. I ordered the preview plans set for the RV-7A tonight. I can't start building my dream for at least another year because we will be very busy with kid number three who is arriving next month :)! So, I plan to spend any free time I may have reading and understanding the build process and fun that awaits me! Wish me luck! There is an old Chinese proverb that says, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step!" How true that is. I have been following Rudi Greylings build process and it was really exciting to watch as he turned that pile of aluminum into a beautiful airplane and then flew it!!! WOW, I can't wait!
 
Here's the plan...

I can't believe I didn't realize until today who this thread was by! I had read it and not given it a second thought. Good to know you're here!

Considering we now only live 4 hours apart, how about if you build half and I build half and then we'll meet in the middle and hope it all fits together. :D Of course, I volunteer to keep it at my house when it's done. :rolleyes:
 
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