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RV-9A Slider Panel

R

rv9aviator

Well Known Member
This is the current version of the panel layout for my RV-9A Slider.
I would like input from others on why or why not to arrange things the way I have. The switches and fuses along the bottom are only to take up space right now. I have not got that far in the design. The actual instruments are what I need advice on.

Here are my reasons for the locations:
The TruTrak ADI will actually be an ADI Pilot two axis autopilot with auto trim.
I mounted it up high as it will be my back up attitude indicator of the glass goes dark. NO IFR.

The 3 inch altitude just looks better next to the ADI and is cheaper than a 2 inch.

The EFIS/engine monitor will be a multi function from GRT or Dynon.

The Angle of attack is mounted up high and directly in front for obvious reasons.

The 2 inch airspeed and tach. are to save space and are redundant.

Probably the most unconventional thing Ive done is mount the fuel gages below the EFIS front and center. I did this because we all know how many accidents are caused by fuel exhaustion. I'm used to flying a Cessna and not having to switch tanks every half hour so I'm hoping this will help in that regard. Besides, there is room so why not.

The oil pressure and temp gages are on the right simply because I ran out of room on the left and they are redundant.

After you click on the thumbnail you can click a second time to make it really huge.

OK Fire away! :)
 
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From experience, it's better if the Garmin 296/396 tilts towards you. Otherwise, you loose some of it's excellent contrast, color, and might see reflections from other objects.

As I write this, I'm actually sitting at a desk, while moving my Garmin 296 to the right and facing straight, as though it's in the radio stack; and yes it's much better tilted towards the pilot!

In my 6A, I sat in the seat and built a mount attached to the left corner rail, that tilts directly towards me. Someday, I'd like to get a 396 & put the 296 on the passenger side, or perhaps the radio stack area for the right seater.

L.Adamson
 
Quick observations

Looks pretty good, and must be a VFR panel.

a) while you just have the switches and breakers in for holding spacing....I'd spend some time, making sure they are right... I have a freind who layed out is panel and forgot that there is a right angle aluminum bracket at the bottom of the panel frame. It messed up all this switch and breaker positions and is causing him to either re-design, or come up with an alternative and this *after* he did is metalwork :(

b) I'm a fan of keeping things in what I call the "training position". e.g. Six pack instruments in the same order as they are in certified trainers, engine controls in the same order, etc. So I'd make these changes
- swap the position of the Airspeed and the Tach
- I'd get the flap switch *well* away from the throttle and mixture controls (you're gonna be bumping it *all* the time) Best would be up on the panel in a position so you can get to it with your throttle hand/fingers when your hand is on the throttle control.

c) why in a VFR only airplane would you use the PRO version of the AOA? I'd save the money and use the Sport version

d) I get into this dicussion all the time, but why do you want a HOBBS? You get the same functionality in the Dynon and other EFIS systems. if you are looking for flight time. As for maint window times, most of those are done on tach time anyway.

e) while larger, the CO Guardian 252F has a built in "beeper" and annunciator, the 352 requires external annunciation and has no "sound"

f) in a panel location, I'd opt for the airGizmo's gizmodock for the 1/2/396 GPS', much cleaner install, but do heed the warning about mounting it straight on vs. tilted towards the pilot.

g) if you want inflight music, don't waste the money on a certifed CD, audio player, just go pick your favorite from the local news paper from a car audio vendor... It will be wider (1DIN sized), but *way* cheaper. Personally, I'd save the panel space and just add a music input jack for an Ipod or removeable XM Radio

h) as for switches, I would not use the "cessna" style rocker alt/batt switch, nor would I go to the expense of using the other rocker style switches. I'd move to toggles and where appropriate use the W31 style switch/breakers to save on fuse/breaker panels. all other switches would be toggles from B&C

Hope that helps. Don't forget the whiskey compass, you can get the SIRS's in panel mount too if you don't want one up on the glare screen
 
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Jim:

I also recommend the AoA Sport and I recommend it be mounted on top of the panel so it is in your vision when looking out the window in the pattern.

If you opt for the GRT, I would then add the EIS-4000 and eliminate ALL the other guages. This is a VFR panel so the EIS can give you all the info you need. You can add airspeed and altimeter to the EIS as options for less than the guages. It will provide you with split screen feed for your primary engine info and allow a full screen engine page. It provides aural alerts for all out-of-tollerance conditions. The most important benefit is the engine analyzer capability. All this for an extra $1000 to $1200 or about $500 more than your panel as it stands now. This is a no brainer in my opinion.

I recommend a vertical card whisky compass so you always have a compass rose in sight.

The ADI Pilot is a good choice for AP and ADI backup.

I also recommend you tank the rocker switches and mag/starter key for toggels.

I didn't see light dimmers (1 or 2), carb heat or cabin heat.

Jekyll
 
As I stated i my first post the switches and other stuff at the bottom is just temporary filler.

I use Panel Planner and they don't have a graphic for the Air Gizmo but I was planning on using one for looks but I guess I will have to hinge it so I can change the angle while flying.

I will probably not use either version of the angle of attack shown as TruTrak will have theirs by the time I am ready to fly.

I did forget the compass though and your right the airspeed and tach needs to be reversed.

I am by the Dynon like I am floppy drives and other computer stuff. You wake up one morning and the computer won't read that back up disk or the dynon screen is blank forever. That is the reason for the Hobbs meter. You got to have some old technology to make you still feel like your in an airplane. :)

I wanted the flap switch close to the throttle but will move it away more.

I am planning on using the Affordable XL version. The layout is for that particular one so I hope the switches will work but I will check into that. I don't want any big surprises at the end.

The stereo is not the brand I will use. I'm sure it will be an automotive unit or XM radio or both. It's for the wife as I don't like the distraction.

Yes, it will be a VFR panel only.

Any more thoughts anyone?

Thanks
 
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I also recommend you tank the rocker switches and mag/starter key for toggels.
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Unlike a few, I prefer the Cessna type battery/alt switch. It looks excellent in my panel, and has an automatic interlock, to make sure the battery is on line when the alternator is. Never agreed with Bob Nuckolles (Matronics list) on that one! :D

And even though there has been a report or two, of problems with a key mag/starter switch, I prefer that too. The key fits my canopy lock as well.

L.Adamson
 
Ah but.

L.Adamson said:
Unlike a few, I prefer the Cessna type battery/alt switch. It looks excellent in my panel, and has an automatic interlock, to make sure the battery is on line when the alternator is. Never agreed with Bob Nuckolles (Matronics list) on that one! :D

And even though there has been a report or two, of problems with a key mag/starter switch, I prefer that too. The key fits my canopy lock as well.

L.Adamson
Click to expand...

I too will be a start switch person... But, you can solve the "cessna" style interlock, buy using one of the B&C switches where the middle connection is Batt, and the top connection is ALT. In this mode, you go to batt and alt is off, you go to ALT and it's both BATT and ALT. And no more dual internal switch and rocker mechanism.

Yes, it's one switch that could fail, but it's no different than the "cessna" style if that happens.
 
I'll check into the B&C ignition switch Sounds like a good idea. Could you post the B&C part number. I looked but was confused by the different switches
Thanks
 
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Switches

rv9aviator said:
I'll check into the B&C ignition switch Sounds like a good idea. Could you post the B&C part number. I looked but was confused by the different switches
Thanks
Click to expand...

It's the S700-2-10. If you haven't, I'd recommend that you go to www.aeroelectric.com and buy Bob's book. Also, all his electrical diagrams are public available and show most all the common layouts and switch configurations. Including the B&C switch numbers.
 
Jim:

Since you are building a 9, I assume you are building a cross country bird. At close to 200 miles an hour, your radio reception (AM and FM) may be very transient. Stations can come and go quickly. Consider just an XM and not an AM, FM. That is conditional on the fact that you are already a paying customer for XM. I wouldn't want to pay a monthly fee for something that gets used ocassionally. A cheeper and more flexible idea would be to go with an MP3 player that you carry to and from the bird as you use it. A couple of good threads in the past on MP3 players (Pros and cons of hardware format).

I'm using a PSE-8000B which has a jack on its face. I'll be able to velcro a small player on the panel beside the audio panel or stick it on the glare shield. I'l have "my music" in my car, my boat, my bike, walking, running and flying. You can wire a jack to your audio panel.

Just an idea.

Jekyll
 
I do have the book and am learning many new things. I know very little about electronics. I can deal with 220-440 3 phase wiring no problem but this is all new to me.

The MP3 player might be a good idea for my wife.

I just finished prosealing some ribs on my right fuel tank so I will wait until tomorrow to make any attempt at rational thoughts. Between MEK and proseal I'm about done for the day.

George, where are you when I need you. I thought you would have some well thought out pearls of wisdom for me. ;) :)
 
Here is my $.02 worth.

1) First and foremost, get an Affordable Panels panel. Once you start working with it you will understand why but the panel is where you will have issues once flying and being able to take part of it out to work on is well worth the extra $$$.

2) As noted, the airspeed indicator should move to the top.

3) The Dynon unit comes with an AoA, all it takes is their pitot tube so you can dump the AoA sport. The Dynon unit will output an audio tone to your intercom so you will know when you get close.

4) The Garmin 396 has a better viewing angle than the 296 so tilting it towards you isn?t as much of a big deal as it is for the 296; however, it is still recommended.

5) Move the transponder to the bottom of the stack. This is standard airplane setup, similar to the six pack idea. No other reason than that.

6) Dump the engine gauges. Your EFIS/EMS will have them and you don?t need the redundancy for them. If the EMS part of the EFIS dies, and the thing up front continues to make noise, you can land and figure it out before moving on. The same can?t be said for the flight instruments.

7) Switch placement is an entirely different game. I grouped mine by phase of flight rather than by function. Thus all my starting switches are on the left, strobe and position lights are next, then comes the taxi, landing, fuel pump, carb heat, throttle, mixture, and flaps. All reachable with very little hand movement. Also, do not put your flap switch between the throttle and mixture. There is very little room to move the switch. Also, during take off and in the event of a go-around you just want to put the palm of your hand on both the throttle and mixture and push them in together. (Or jus the throttle, if at a high elevation airport.) My flap switch is positioned so that I can activate it with my fingers w/o taking my hand off the throttle and mixture.

8) Carb heat: put it to the left of the throttle so that you can push it in with the palm of your hand during take off and go-arounds. See number six above.

9) Music: Two options; either use the satellite radio feed from the 396 or get an iPod. With either solution you don?t need to mess with CD?s. I was going to install a DVD player in my -9 but figured I can either bring a lap top along or buy a small portable DVD player and put it on the passenger?s lap.

10) Intercom and ELT: Put them side-by-side. There is room and it will free up space for circuit breakers.

11) Other missing items: Cabin heat, parking brake, rheostat for red cabin lights, switch for courtesy lights, power ports for hand held devices such as the portable DVD player mentioned above. (I?m installing two, one that is on the always hot bus so I can plug in a battery tender to it and the other will be on the avionics master.)

Best of luck, this part of building is both challenging and rewarding.

You might want to check out my site, as I?ve got some pictures of this on there: http://www.repucci.com/bill/instruments.html
 
Prioritize your instruments

Jim

The things I would change are:

Move the Garmin to right in front of you. It's the most used thing on your panel, make it usable.

Ditch all those extra engine gauges. The GRT and probably the Dynon have alarms. I have the GRT 4000 and that red alarm light is great. Also the Garmin has a nice setting that will alert you to change tanks. I have mine set to alert me every half hour. Works great.

Things like Hobbs meters have little to nothing to do with flying, so get them out of the prime real estate.

Is that a car radio in there? I've heard nothing but bad things about trying to use a car radio/CD player in a plane. Not saying you can't, just look into it. You'd hate to have a large piece of equitment on your panel you don't use. I have my Sirius radio hooked up for long or solo flying, works great.

The setup I have is a Dynon 10A with a Garmin 196 right under it. A steam altimeter to the right of the Dynon and a steam ASI to the left. The autopilot to the left of the GPS and the KI209 to the right of the GPS. It basically has the standard 6 pack. The GRT 4000 is in the radio stack above the Nav/Com. If they had the Dynon with the engine instruments in it when I built I would have gone that way. Overall it looks good and functions great. My next plane will have the same layout except for the KI209, The Rocket will probably be VFR.

About the AOA, try to find someone with a 9 that uses it before you buy one. I have the Dynon AOA and it doesn't really work well in my 9. I think it has something to do with the actually stall speed of a 9. With flaps I stall at 37 KIAS. I fly the approach at about 60 KIAS. That 1.6 times stall. I've tried faking a stall when calibrating the Dynon but all I get is a very twitchy AOA reading during approach. Nothing I would actually be able to fly. Maybe the AOA sprort or Pro is better, but I would look into it first.


Here's a really bad picture of my what I'm talking about. Don't mind all the junk hanging down, it's much better now. :eek:

 
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Not all AOA's are created egual

There is a reason that the AOA from Advanced is so expensive. There is no comparison to how it works vs. the ones that use a pitot tube, or are just "calculated" AOA's. The Advanced one, uses a high pressure port at a "specific" location on the bottom of the wing and a low pressure port at a specific location on the top of the wing. It's is a very accurate device and mirrors was most of the fighter aircraft have or used to have.

If you are using one of the others and don't get an accurate reading, it doesn't surprise me. Most likely the ports, if it uses them, are in a "not-appropriate-for-your-aircraft" position or it's just using pitot and some "generic" calculation.

If you want AOA, there are no compromises to the type that actually use "specific port locations on the top *and* bottom of the wing".

IMHO
 
aadamson said:
There is a reason that the AOA from Advanced is so expensive. There is no comparison to how it works vs. the ones that use a pitot tube, or are just "calculated" AOA's.
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I've talked to people that have used the Dynon AOA on an RV6 and really like it. They use it to fly all their approaches. So I think it works at least on some planes. Maybe it's just my install that's messed up.
 
The AOA will probably be from TruTrak anyway as soon as theirs is on the market. I have no doubt that when they offer one it will work as advertised.

I guess the steam gages might be unnecessary but I just have to have them anyhow. I'm old and want to see something analog as well as the computer stuff.

In my earlier post I noted that I am using the Affordable Panel XL in my 9A.

I am not sure of the EFIS brand I will go with yet. I have flown behind the GRT and the screen is wonderful. I don't know about the Dynon. With the TruTrak ADI pilot if anything has to go it would be the EFIS. Steam gages, ADI, and the Garmin 396 will get me anywhere I want to go.

I made some changes to the original picture. Go back to the first post to see them

Too many choices! Ain't life grand.
 
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If it were me

Probably just me, but with the Dynon in there and the ability to have engine and fuel info up front and center. I'd not move all the engine and fuel instruments into a cluster somewhere. And probably not on the pilot side panel. Course, you are building a VFR panel, so you may have more space than you need. But I'd protect some of your prime real estate for whatever backup flight instruments you decide on.

As previously mentioned, I'd also put the engine control grouping in a triple with carb heat first, throttle second, and mixture last. Keep the spacing tight so it's easy to go from throttle to mixture and back to carb heat, or just put an injected engine in it and loose the carb heat knob :)
 
I'm new to experimental aircraft and their construction. So new in fact that I haven't even started my RV-9 yet. That will take place in October at the Alexander Tech Center in GA. Can't wait!

My questions are; why put any AoA in any VFR aircraft? I had no intentions of putting an AoA in my -9, is this a bad decision?

I've never flown in an aircraft that had an AoA. Can't say I've EVER seen one other than on the web and only in reference to installation for an experimental aircraft. A Lot of people have mentioned them. Are they that important? :eek:

If they are that important why don't Cessna and Piper put them in their IFR planes? :confused:

I'm only looking for answers, trying not to step on toes.

Thanks,

Robert
 
Robert M said:
My questions are; why put any AoA in any VFR aircraft? I had no intentions of putting an AoA in my -9, is this a bad decision?
Click to expand...

Most airplanes don't have an AoA gauge and they're not falling out of the sky :)

That said, angle of attack tells you just about everything you need to know about your wing. Honestly, I would think it more useful for VFR than IFR. For IFR, you're flying "by the numbers". VFR, you're somewhat all over the place so the AoA might be useful. It's useful on landing in both situations since you know exactly when the bottom's gonna drop out. Caveat: I've never flown behind one but this is where I could see using it the most.

I probably won't bother putting one in mine.
 
Thanks John.

I was raised on Cessna 152's and 172's that were AoA free. I'm not gonna install one either.

Robert
 
The people I've talked to about AOA's say your landings will be much more consistent. These are only available to Experimental aircraft in the types we typically see and the ones that are certified are probably cost prohibitive. My flying experience has been primarily on my own 172 except for training and that was a 150. I will welcome any tool that helps me make nice smooth landings. Don't you just hate it when your flying buddies ask if you logged all three of those landings. :rolleyes:
 
Don't make the mistake of comparing your experience in 150's and 172's to flying an RV. Have you flown an RV yet? They don't give the warning you are used to before stall - no shudder, just a clean breaking stall. :eek: Flying it by the numbers you shouldn't have any problem - definitely get some dual in an RV before you launch the first time. I don't plan to put an AOA in my 7A but wouldn't rule it out. I will definitely get some dual and know what speeds I have to maintain. I plan to go with GRT, I haven't looked into what they offer in the area of an AOA.
 
rv9aviator said:
The people I've talked to about AOA's say your landings will be much more consistent. These are only available to Experimental aircraft in the types we typically see and the ones that are certified are probably cost prohibitive. My flying experience has been primarily on my own 172 except for training and that was a 150. I will welcome any tool that helps me make nice smooth landings. Don't you just hate it when your flying buddies ask if you logged all three of those landings. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Jim
Have you had a chance to fly a 9 yet? The landings are so much more consistant than a Cessna. If you pay just a little attention to your landings and not let yourself slack off you will make greasers every time you land. I was almost disapointed when I first started flying my 9 that it was so easy to land. The 9 really talks to you at the low speeds so you can fly a very consistant approach without ever looking inside the plane.

Cam
 
Yeah, I have flown in a 9 and it is the most benign airplane I have flown. I still can't get over the fact it will cruise at 175-180 and stall below 50mph.
 
I added AOA to my 9A panel

I am still a couple months away from flying, so can share flying experiance yet.
I had my panel almost completely build and only added AOA at the last minute.
I was finially convenced from a friend that had it in his plane. He told me was trying to expidite his landing because of traffic and was turning base to final for a landing and heard a nice female voice say "push, push".
I think that the AOA could make my landing/touch down better, but the reason that I was finially sold on it was that the RV has a sporter feel to it than my C172. I think that I might be tempted to fly it in a sporter fashion. I don't want any suprise when I am landing. You never know when you will change you normal landing approach.

Kent
#90322 N94KJ
Almost ready.
 
7pilot said:
They don't give the warning you are used to before stall - no shudder, just a clean breaking stall. :eek:
Click to expand...

Actually the 7 and 9 fly quite a bit differently. The 9 gives a nice warning before a stall, enough that you can recover during the pre stall buffet. I've never flown a Cessna or a Piper with as much stall warning. Plus the control forces change quite a bit when you get slow. After a little flying you will be able to tell the difference between 65 knots and 55 knots just from the way the plane feels.

Don't get me wrong, a well done AOA may be a big help to your flying. Just remember these are RV9's not Swearingen SX300's.
 
A good example of how the RV-9A flies is Jim Younkin and I came in about 1000 ft. above Pattern when on base. He turned final and starting making S turns and banking the plane up at 45 deg. back and forth. The airspeed indicator was showing around 50 Kts. The plane stayed stable all the way down to the runway. We lost the extra 1000 ft. in no time and never felt any kind of control problems what so ever. This plane is awesome.
I guess I should qualify this with saying Jim could fly a 2 X 4 with an engine on it but I could have done the same thing in the RV-9A.
 
Why AoA . . .

Robert M said:
My questions are; why put any AoA in any VFR aircraft? I had no intentions of putting an AoA in my -9, is this a bad decision?
Click to expand...
Not at all. An airspeed indicator is usually a very good replacement of an AoA indicator. The disadvantage of an airspeed indicator is that stall speed changes with load-factor and gross weight. The AoA that you wing stalls is only dependant on the shape, flaps up or down (power setting also has a small effect on both). If you want a better understanding of all this, I'd recommend the book "Stick and Rudder".

Robert M said:
I've never flown in an aircraft that had an AoA. Can't say I've EVER seen one other than on the web and only in reference to installation for an experimental aircraft. A Lot of people have mentioned them. Are they that important? :eek:
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That depends on the flying you do. You have to allow for some extra margin when using airspeed, so if you want to get into the smallest airstrips, or maneuver at the limits of your aircraft AoA will let you do that. Also, as metioned in many of the other replys, flying a constant AoA will give you more consistent landings.

Robert M said:
If they are that important why don't Cessna and Piper put them in their IFR planes? :confused:
Click to expand...
It cost money, flight instructors don't teach AoA, and its one more component that a lawyer could claim caused a crash. Unfortunately, our legal and regulatory systems make the manufacturers more responsive to them than their customers.
 
There must be something really good about AOA. The Navy uses it for the most demanding of all landings, carrier ops. The Air force, because they had to buy Navy planes for a period of time, uses it but with 10,000 ft of RW I don't know why. The disadvantage of an airspeed indicator is that stall speed changes with gross weight. On speed with an AOA makes this adjustment no matter what the gross wt. It tells when too fast, just right , slow, and look out below. It also gives best glide and max endurance. It makes for more consistent apporach speeds, landings and control of touchdown points. Check out the pro and sport at www.angle-of-attack.com. I am going to use one in my 9A.
John
 
Man, do I love the Internet - thanks Al Gore! :D :D :D

keen9a said:
It cost money, flight instructors don't teach AoA, and its one more component that a lawyer could claim caused a crash. Unfortunately, our legal and regulatory systems make the manufacturers more responsive to them than their customers.
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So, if there's no AoA in the trainers and Instructors don't teach its use - where does one learn such stuff?

"Stick and Rudder" has been placed on the "Required Reading" list so I'm gonna get the skinny about AoA's. Like 7pilot said -
7pilot said:
I don't plan to put an AOA in my 7A but wouldn't rule it out.
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I feel the same about my RV-9.

Thanks again to one and all. Ya know - it gives me the warm fuzzies knowing there is this wealth of knowledge, experience and expertise available with just the gentle touch of an index finger.
 
The secret life of AoA revealed

Hi gang!

It seems that "Plane & Pilot" magazine was looking in on us as we talked about AoA. They decided to put an article about it in their May 2006 issue called "Getting to Know AOA". I haven't read it yet but I'm gonna. Maybe this will answer the question as to whether I want an AoA or not.

Robert
 
Lotsa good comments already, but...

A few more comments:
* Standard practice is for the landing gear switch to be on the left side of the throttle quadrant and flaps on the right. With the flap switch on the left, you'll be establishing bad habits for when you fly retractable gear aircraft.
* Excellent job of putting space between your electrical switches! So few people do that. However, standard practice is to use red and "plain" colored switches. Yellow won't mean anything to anybody except you.
* On takeoff, how are you going to do your final power check --MP, tach, OP, and FP? You've got those all over the panel when they could be grouped.
* I'd go with a 3" airspeed, and I'd also move the altimeter to the top. Sure, the Dynon has that info, but the bigger instruments give you more familiar presentation, especially when you're stressed and are looking for something familiar.
* I wouldn't worry about a backup tach. Manifold pressure is much more useful for measuring power in an RV, even with a fixed pitch prop, and if you lose your Dynon, it's easy enough to set power for the airspeed you want, and there's no danger of overspeeding the prop in normal operations.

There was an article in Kitplanes on panel design, and I'm trying to get it posted to the Kitplanes web site.

Enjoy your -9A!

Ed Wischmeyer
12 year RV-4 owner
RV-10 builder
 
Ed, Thanks for your comments.
All the switches are there just for filler at this point.

I never thought about the manifold pressure gage taking the place of the redundant tach as I have never flown a constant speed prop or flown a plane with a manifold pressure gage. I am planning a FP prop on the RV-9A and just wanted the MP gage to have the extra information. All my time is in FP Cessna's.

I placed the TruTrak attitude indicator/autopilot at the top as I thought being right side up would take priority over altitude at the very moment the computer stuff went blank.

I guess I figured I would use the glass panel for run-up since more than likely I wouldn't continue the flight without trouble shooting the glass panel if it went blank.

I'm glad I'm getting this information while I still have time to consider the different ways to configure everything.

I just finished the last fuel tank this morning. You have no idea how glad I am that is behind me. No more Proseal!! Now to finishing the right wing skins and order the fuselage. :)
 
rv9aviator said:
This is the current version of the panel layout for my RV-9A Slider.
I would like input from others on why or why not to arrange things the way I have. The switches and fuses along the bottom are only to take up space right now. I have not got that far in the design. The actual instruments are what I need advice on.

Here are my reasons for the locations:
The TruTrak ADI will actually be an ADI Pilot two axis autopilot with auto trim.
I mounted it up high as it will be my back up attitude indicator of the glass goes dark. NO IFR.

The 3 inch altitude just looks better next to the ADI and is cheaper than a 2 inch.

The EFIS/engine monitor will be a multi function from GRT or Dynon.

The Angle of attack is mounted up high and directly in front for obvious reasons.

The 2 inch airspeed and tach. are to save space and are redundant.

Probably the most unconventional thing Ive done is mount the fuel gages below the EFIS front and center. I did this because we all know how many accidents are caused by fuel exhaustion. I'm used to flying a Cessna and not having to switch tanks every half hour so I'm hoping this will help in that regard. Besides, there is room so why not.

The oil pressure and temp gages are on the right simply because I ran out of room on the left and they are redundant.

After you click on the thumbnail you can click a second time to make it really huge.

Here's my 2 cents--
I would not depend on the fuel gauges. Use a clock to switch tanks. Therefore one can place them over to the right stack . Secondly, Get rid of the key switch and use toggles. If your ever out in the sticks and loose a switch, it's a simple matter of going to the local auto depot and getting a replacement. Ask me how I know this.

Cheers

Peter
Click to expand...
 
Here is a modified version of my panel. I have taken everyones input and changed the layout to hopefully make a better panel. Remember the switches at the bottom are simply gut filler and not representitive of the final outcome. Thanks for all the help and please feel free to help me refine even more.
 
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Jim,

Much better. Still see a lot of unnecessary redundancy with regard to engine instruments. IMHO, and that is all it is, IMHO.

One question about the engine instrument redundancy, can the Dynon use the same probes as the steam gauges? If not, you might have to double up on the probes. Which, of course, adds a lot of weight and complexity.

If you are set on using the steam gauges, why not go with the D100 and keep the traditional engine instruments? This will save you $$$ and give you room to display the GPS driven HSI on the right 1/3 of the D100.

I would move the flap switch to the right of the mixture so you won't have to take your hand off the throttle to raise the flaps in the event of a go around.

Keep going, your panel will be set soon enough.
 
Looks good, but keep a couple (ok, a coule few) things in mind.

1) With multiple "redundant instruments" of the same type, after a couple hours of flying your brain will be trained to look at the instrument of your preference. That might end up being a round guage for one thing, the efis for another, etc.. Not a bad thing, but I guarantee you it will happen.

2) With multiple redundant engine instrument's, it's not always a simple as you think. We're doing an RV8 panel for a customer right now that wanted to take the same approach. Dynon EFIS, Dynon EMS, and a bunch of backup engine guages, including fuel leve. Here's the deal. Depending on which engine monitor and guages you use, they frequently will NOT share a transducer - meaning you can't simply hook 2 displays to one output, especially cranky are resistive type senders like fuel level, oil pressure, etc.. Senders which out put 0-5V are much easier. So, then you're stuck with twice as many transducers, which means twice as many hoses, lines, etc.. and exactly 1/2 the overall reliability! Not what you set out to accomplish.

3) Regarding the clock (it's fine that you have one, I have the same in my RV6) but I wanted to point out what you probably already know. The GTX has a wonderful timer and clock in it, the 396 has a clock in it and the Dynon has a clock in it so you've already got 3 of them before you add the 4th.

4) I'd try to get the headset jacks down as low as possible on the panel towards the bottom. Not as easy with a modular panel, but with the jacks up there you'll find the cords will be in the way of the key and also have to sit outside the canopy deck rails. If you can get them down and under the canopy deck rails they just work better in the long run and the cords are much less of a hassle.

5) you already know this as well I suspect, and it's a trivial one, but the ELT remote is only about half the size as your picture. Try editing the size down to .6"x1.7" for a more scaled look.

6) If you want any sort of chance to have the compass working in the panel, then move it as far away from the efis as you can to the other side of the panel.

7) If you use the Air Gizmo to mount your 396, you won't be able to stack the Dynon (or GRT), the GPS and still put switches under it and make it all fit.

8) If that's an SL-30 with in the panel, you'll need anothe switch to control the NAV input to your intercom, as the intercom doesn't have any out of the box capability to monitor the NAV side of the radio. If it's an SL-40 ignore this point.

9) Do you have a carbed or injected engine? If it's carb'd then the fuel pressure really doesn't buy you anything. If you lose fuel pressure the engine just quits. If it's injected that's a different story because crazy things can start happening when fuel pressure get's low.

10) This one is purely personal opinion...but, if you have a C/S airplane (I'm guessing not since I don't see a prop knob), then Manifold pressure is probably more usefull than RPM, or at least a combination of both would be good. If you have a FP, then the tach is kind of a waste...you just don't do much with it in reality...the few rare times you need to look at it, it's still there on the Dynon or GRT....but then again it's just my opinion.

11) Airspeed, Altimeter and ADI I like as backups...no nitpicking here!

12) Another personal opinion, but I'd trash the flap indicator and put in a elevator trim indicator instead. After all, the flaps are only about 2' from you and easy to see, and after flying the RV for awhile you'll simply just use the amount of flaps you need....not like a cesspot or piper where you normally use "notches" for it and the indicator buys you nothing but distraction...but then again that's just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.

13) Don't know if this even matters or not, but I noticed a 50A breaker in your lineup. If you intend that to be the main Alternator breaker, I'd leave it outside of the cockpit on the engine side of the firewall.

That's about everything I can find to nitpick :) I really hate to sound like I'm tearing it apart, because as a whole I think you'll have a really nice functional panel when you're done. Take everything above for what it's worth...just my opinions and they are worth exactly what you paid for them!

Keep everyone posted as to your progress, I'm anxious to see the finished product. No matter what you end up with I think it'll be exactly what you want...which is what matter here!

Cheers,
Stein.
 
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Airspeed X 4

Hi Jim

Lots of good info in this thread but one thing I did not see mentioned. The TruTrak ADI has an (adjustable) low airspeed warning. Therefore by my count you have four minimum airspeed systems, EFIS, a expensive 2" airspeed indicator, AOA and the ADI. Probably overkill in a VFR aircraft.

George in Langley B.C.
 
Thanks Stein for you input. I didn't realize I would need separate probes in a lot of cases. It is hard for me to think of a panel with no steam gages. I am going to rethink this and maybe go with a two screen EFIS/EMS. That way if one screen goes black I can switch to the other and switch between EMS and EFIS until I can land. You make a lot of good points and with everyone's help I'm sure I will end up with a panel I can be proud of. As a side note to another thread about where to buy electrical supplies, this proves I made the right decision buying all my electrical tools, connectors, and wire from SteinAir. :)
 
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