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RV-9 Questions

Lionclaw

Lionclaw

Well Known Member
I've been lurking the forums here for a while now and I've finally decided to stick my head out and ask a few questions.

First, a little about myself. I'm looking for a plane I can use for cross country trips, local flights, mostly vfr stuff, but ifr capability would be nice. Keeping the operational costs low is very important to me. I like to build things, so a kit plane seems like a good option for me. (a few of my past projects - Here, and Here)

So far I've spent some time looking at a couple different options. Titan Tornado - nice specs, but it looks like a woman's dress shoe. Sonex - Good speed, I like the aerovee engine option, good price, but limited panel space.

So now I'm looking at the RV-9. In all likelihood, I'll probably go with the RV-9 or the Sonex. Anyway... on to the questions...

Engine Questions -
FWF costs with an O-235? Should I look for new or used? Any figures for fuel burn @ cruise? Can it (should I) run auto gas? Any innovative ways to keep overhaul costs down, self performed overhaul? For my mission, should I be considering other engine options?

Other Questions -
Can I build the majority of the plane in a 21'x11' shop? Are the seats adjustable?

I appreciate any feedback you all could offer!

Andy
 
LOOKOUT!

Lionclaw said:
Engine Questions -
FWF costs with an O-235? Should I look for new or used? Any figures for fuel burn @ cruise? Can it (should I) run auto gas? Any innovative ways to keep overhaul costs down, self performed overhaul? For my mission, should I be considering other engine options?

Andy
Click to expand...

Welcome, Lionclaw! Now DUCK! (A thread with this type of question will get responses for-EVER and varied!)

I can only tell you what I'm planning to do: RV-9A with a 170hp o-360 (low compression cylinders to use auto-fuel) If I want to save fuel I'll simply throttle back. Study your intended mission profile, reflect against desire, look into a crystal ball, shake the bones, and make a decision. :D Good luck!
 
I think that the RV's offer about the best bang for the buck in the kit plane market place. The shear volume of planes that they sell allows them to minimize their nonrecurring costs, and the support you can find online from all of the builders is second to none.

Of all the RVs, it sounds like the -9 or -9A is the best choice. I don't think that you would want to consider a new O-235 engine. I don't think that engine likes auto fuel and it is only available in a fully certified version. You can get a much better deal (i.e. lower cost) on an experimental version O-320 from Lycoming through Vans (get the low compression version if you want to burn auto fuel), and you can do even better going with a clone engine, where you can also get electronic ignition for very little extra. As was said, if you want to lower the fuel burn, just throttle back but, when you need the power, you will have it.

But, take your time and make the decision that is right for you. I can tell you, though, that the people you will meet here are great. I have posted questions a number of times and usually start getting answers within hours. One thing that surprised me a little is that all of the RVs share some degree of similiarity with there design and construction, so you you are not limited to the RV-9 forum. Many issues you will face and have questions about will be common to most all RVs.

Have fun deciding.
 
Yes, build the -9. Go with the engine and panel that fit your budget. Sure, you can spend less with other planes, but the -9 really gives maximum bang for your hard earned bucks.
You will be glad you did when you are on that long x/c, trimmed for straight and level. You look outside at that long wing and smile to yourself knowing that IT is the reason why your flight is smoother than a cold brew on a summer evening.
Yes, your building space is big enough. Yes, the seatbacks are adjustable but that has to be done on the ground. I pretty much set up the rudder pedals for me but could adjust if necessary. I have a couple booster cushions for the kids as well.
I have 135 hrs now and absolutely no regrets.
 
My mission is the same as yours, but I may go with the O-320 since I believe parts availability is much better. I've not yet flown in a -9, but everyone I've met who has flown one loves it.

If it helps, my will be a 9A, O-320 150 or 160HP, not FI, magnetos, slider, with steps, a 2-axis autopilot, a single EFIS/engine monitor, and a GNS430W or equivalent!
 
bsacks05 said:
Yes, build the -9. Go with the engine and panel that fit your budget. Sure, you can spend less with other planes, but the -9 really gives maximum bang for your hard earned bucks.
You will be glad you did when you are on that long x/c, trimmed for straight and level. You look outside at that long wing and smile to yourself knowing that IT is the reason why your flight is smoother than a cold brew on a summer evening.
Yes, your building space is big enough. Yes, the seatbacks are adjustable but that has to be done on the ground. I pretty much set up the rudder pedals for me but could adjust if necessary. I have a couple booster cushions for the kids as well.
I have 135 hrs now and absolutely no regrets.
Click to expand...

What he said!

The -9 is a great flying airplane. As for the FWF cost, it all depends on how lucky you get. I found a 0 SMHO O-290-D2 for $3,500. My total FWF cost is right at $7,500. That includes a yellow tagged carb, duel P-mags, and some other goodies.
 
An O-235 ought to be cheaper to buy second hand but will cost about the same to overhaul.

A friend with a -6A throttles back & cruises about 140 mph burning 4.7 GPH, which supports what others say about managing fuel consumption with the throttle.

If $ is a big thing, buy an abandoned project. You see them advertised here from time to time, you'll find them on Ebay & in Trade A Plane, Barnstormers.com and check various EAA chapter newsletters online for ads. You can save a bundle if you are patient.

RScott
RV-9A wings
 
0-290

Hey Bill,

Sorry if I'm "hijacking" this discussion but I just had a few questions about the 0-290. It seems that the price for these engines is much less than and 0-320.

Does Van's FWF kit for the 0-320 work for this engine (baffles, exhaust,etc)?

Which mount does it use (dynafocal or conical)?

I've heard that parts are not readily available but it seems like you found everything you needed.

Any comment would be appreciated.

And, to the original poster, go for the RV9! I'm having a ton of fun building this thing

Dave
RV9A
finishing up wings
 
Do the Nine, Man!

I'm about halfway done with my 9A and having fun like the "udder guyz". Great plane, great specs, superb quality from Vans Aircraft, and a ton of people to help out and/or offer advice in any situation. Remember, all this free advice is worth every penny you pay for it! :D

Rupester
Mahomet, IL
RV-9A QB fuse
 
Step into the LIGHT and lets go - - RV-9A!

Andy,

Glad to see you come out of LURK mode. Those of us who are flying our RV-9 or RV-9A airplanes had the same questions you are asking. You can read my web site and see how I built my RV-9A and why I made each decision along the way. There are plenty of building, and FLYING photos since I have been flying since June 9, 2005.

Here are the bare facts on my "Enterprise" RV-9A:

Empty weight 1,184 pounds (heavy by Van's standards).

O-320-D1A 160 HP clone engine from ECI, built and tested by Penn Yan Aero. I paid around $18,300 for the engine in 2004. It has a carb, one Light Speed Plasma III ignition module and 1 Slick Mag. The LSE ignition adds about 15% to the fuel economy. I fly high at 10,000 to 13,000 MSL and get 160 MPH true airspeed with my Hartzell constant speed prop bought through Van's. The fuel burn up high runs about 5.5 to 6 gallons per hour (25 MPG). I set 2300 RPM on the prop and wide open throttle above 8,500 MSL.

I have the Grand Rapids EIS-4000 engine monitor with fuel flow option. It measures all EGT's and CHT's for setting power at any altitude.

I built the slider canopy with the Meske "tip-up" baggage access modification.

I use a Garmin GPS 296 to drive my old NavAid analog autopilot wing leveler only. The elevator has a manual trim cable. The GPS 296 also feeds data to the my Dynon D-10A which computes winds aloft by comparing data from the GPS with its own sensors (compass, airspeed, etc.).

The panel is basic IFR with the Garmin AT SL-30 Nav/Com. That unit or the GPS can drive my Dynon D-10A HSI page. I have the Garmin GI-106 analog resolver for VOR/ILS use. The D-10A software did not have the HSI page until recently. There are some Van's steam gauges for the airspeed, altimeter, and VSI. All three of those function are also in the D-10A.

There are extras in this airplane that make it heavy, besides having the constant speed prop up front. I have a real-time color video camera mounted on the dash. There is a car stereo in the panel that plays CD's and tapes. It drives the Garmin GMA-340 stereo audio intercom or a set of speakers for ground use. The intercom also drives the digital video camcorder audio input when I have it running. The sound track on the camcorder is stereo when the music is playing in the background. I made some videos going in and out of Oshkosh last year, no music, just the radio traffic and the intercom chatter between myself and the guy who went to OSH with me in 2006.

You can see all that stuff on my web site. After that, decide how much of that stuff you want in your airplane.
 
Cruise Fuel Burn for the -9A

Hi Andy,

How fast do you want to go? How aggressive do you want to lean? Here are some cruise #s:

0-320/160, Carb, dual EI, CS prop.

98kts burning ~3.5 GPH Go nowhere cruise
130kts burning ~5 GPH Local cruise
150kts burning ~6 GPH (at altitude) Get somewhere cruise
166kts -top end- burning 10+GPH. Just to say how fast it goes cruise

The -9 is an effcient bird. It sounds like a good match for your mission.
 
Wow, Fred was right! Lots of responses. It seems there's a general consensus that more power is the way to go.

I'll spend some time going over your site Jerry. Looks like it could keep me busy for a while.

Pete, it looks like my needs put me in the 130-150kt range. At those speeds, based on your fuel numbers, it looks like the 320 is a very economical option.

I'm very tempted to go ahead and just place an order for the plans/emp kit. I really like how the plane can be purchased piecemeal. I'm going to do some more reading and talk to the people at the local EAA chapter before pulling the trigger.

Thanks for the responses all. I'm sure I'll have many more questions as I start to buy/build :)
 
Best bet!

Others have already posted responses that address your questions about seat adjustment, engine choice, price, etc. I would like to address your questions concerning the RV9-? vs the Sonex or Titan.

I have several friends who have built and are flying the Titan. They enjoy flying it and have good things to say about it. However, none of the good things they have to say about it deal with cross country flying. I do not believe the Titan would be a good cross country airplane. It has many other outstanding qualities that may make flying it enjoyable but since you state your goal is for cross country I would recomend the RV over it.

The same applies for the Sonex. Although I have no personal contact with anyone currently flying this airplane, there are two or three members of our EAA chapter building the Sonex. Their goal is not cross country and the things I have read referring to this plane do not prove to me that it could beat the RV 9 for cross country.

For your goals I would say the best bet is the RV. Cost wise between these three machines the RV may cost a bit more (this is all dependent upon too many factors to make this a given though) but the costs of the others will be close enough that I do think the differences in costs would still favor the RV when looking at the performance characteristics of all three.

Having already built and flown a "more simple to build" airplane that is similar to the Sonex and Titan I can say there is one drawback over the other two when building the RV. That is the fact that the RV is a much more complex and detailed build than the other two kits would be. This may be something you will enjoy but I think it bears noting that the time involved to get the RV airworthy in most situations will be much longer than the other two. If you can deal with that though it will be a small price to pay for the increased capabilities you will find with the RV.

Another thing to consider in the decision is the flying characteristics of these light aircraft you mention. How the planes handle turbulence, how fast they can travel, how quickly they can climb and maneuver around and through weather should be an important factor in choosing one over the other. Again, my opinion is the RV 9 will perform much better in this realm than the Sonex or the Titan.

You must ultimately weigh all the facts and come up with the decision yourself. Just be very honest with yourself and make the decisions based on those honest answers. The last thing you want to base your decision on is purely to look at the $$$ costs and base a decision mainly on that factor.

Hope this is beneficial information. Good luck with whatever you decide and welcome to the community.
 
Daver said:
Hey Bill,

Sorry if I'm "hijacking" this discussion but I just had a few questions about the 0-290. It seems that the price for these engines is much less than and 0-320.

Does Van's FWF kit for the 0-320 work for this engine (baffles, exhaust,etc)?

Which mount does it use (dynafocal or conical)?

I've heard that parts are not readily available but it seems like you found everything you needed.

Any comment would be appreciated.

And, to the original poster, go for the RV9! I'm having a ton of fun building this thing

Dave
RV9A
finishing up wings
Click to expand...

Dave, check your PM's and my web site.
 
Thanks Steve. Cost was definitely my primary concern. The reason I mentioned the Sonex and Titan is because so far at two different times, I was "absolutely certain" that those were the planes I was going to build. The Titan has a cockpit view that seems almost unbeatable, and a respectable cruise speed to go with it. The Sonex is a great economy plane with more of a GA look to it.

Just recently I started re-evaluating my mission. Comfortable cross country flight is really what I want. I'm currently a 2Lt in the USAF, and it'd be nice to have a plane my wife and I can fly off in for a week of leave to visit family. 2Lt pay isn't super, but I've got a small stash put away to get me started, and with time, my income should make this hobby more manageable.
 
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