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RV-3: Fuel Lines for the IO-320

Ironflight

VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Mentor
Thanks to Tom Swearengen of TS-Flightlines, we now have all of the firewall forward fuel lines we needed to hook up our new TMX-IO320 in the RV-3! This was by no means a ?stock? installation (there is no such thing for an RV-3, or an experimental engine), and without a FWF kit, we were pretty much on our own to figure out how to make it work. Fortunately, we didn?t run into anything that couldn?t be covered with standard techniques and practices, so it was mostly a matter of figuring out good lengths, hose ends, and routings. I generally like to build my own fluid line when doing a ?custom? installation, because I can get the lengths exactly right by attaching one end, then measuring ?in place? to attach the other. I?ll do that with the oil lines for this plane, as they are fairly straightforward, but for the fuel lines, I wanted to try the newer style ?brown? sealed fire sleeve, and since we already had one such line that came with the engine it only made sense to make a matching set. (The engine came with two lines, one from the pump to the servo, the other from the servo to the flow divider. Unfortunately, we had to change the servo from a left-feed to a right-feed to make the mixture arm work right with the RV FAB, so the ?short? line was no longer appropriate)

Because the fuel injection system is not certified (Precision Silverhawk) on this engine, I was already in ?experimental? territory with the powerplant, so I decided to design and fabricate my own bracket and location for the fuel flow sensor, putting it between the Servo and Flow Divider, rather than further upstream in the ?airframe? part of the system. This has been shown to provide a more accurate measure of fuel flow than when the flow transducer is closer to the fuel pumps ? while not essential, it is ?nice?. I consulted with Mahlon at Mattituck about a good location for the ?Red Cube?, and he said that on certified aircraft, it is frequently put between the servo and the divider as well, so this made it more attractive. Of course, the fact that the RV-3 is so compact made it impossible to find a good place to put the ?red Cube? anywhere between the fuel selector and the engine driven pump made the decision easier as well. With the straight-pipe (non-cross-over) exhaust, the front of the oil sump was wide open, so I built a bracket from 4130 steel that mounted to two sump bolts and gave a very solid and straight mounting plate for the cube.

IMG_5633.JPG



Once the flow transducer was in place, it was a simple matter to decide on the four total hoses we needed between the firewall and the flow divider, figure out a natural routing, and pick appropriate ends (straight, 45?s, 90?s, etc). To clear the throttle arm and linkage, Tom suggested a ?long drop? 90 degree fitting fabricated from stainless steel that has been used on similar installation, and after consultation with a couple of engine builders, this sounded like a good plan to me as well. I measured hose lengths for Tom using a piece of nylon static system tubing that seemed to like to bend at approximately the same radius as the fuel lines we were using, holding it up between the various end fittings, then measuring the resulting lengths. The line from the firewall to the engine-driven pump was made a little long to give it a little bit of an S-curve to allow for movement. In the pictures shown, I have not added final Adel clamps and rub-point restraints, so if you see a ?hey, that?s going to abrade!? spot, I probably already know about it. I generally run a fuel system with my hands touching the lines from end to end to find places that need restraint and/or protection.
Firewall to fuel pump:

IMG_5675.JPG


Fuel Pump to Fuel Servo:

IMG_5678.JPG


Servo to Flow Transducer and on to the Flow Divider (around the back of Cylinder #4):

IMG_5677.JPG


IMG_5639.JPG



You?ll notice that I took pains to caveat a few things about this being an ?experimental? installation on an ?experimental? engine. With those considerations comes the burden of understanding that there can always be surprises, and it will take some flight testing and rigorous inspection in the early days of the airplane?s life to make sure that we don?t have a vibration or wear problem. I doubt that we?ll be taking this Single-Engine airplane into conditions where the loss of that engine would be catastrophic until we have done a significant amount of diligent testing to confirm that our designs are satisfactory in this regard.
 
Monkey

Looking good Paul!
Is it ok to mount the ff transducer solid to the engine? I thought they want it suspended between fuel hoses with the wires on top.
Also, looks like the hose clamp may be out of place on the #1 intake hose.
 
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Vibration!!

Paul, Like monkey said: I also think that the fuel flow sensor should not be attached to the engine, because virbation will destroy it, or make it inaccurate.

I also installed the (Dynon) fuel flow sensor between the servo and the "spider". But I have about 100 mm of straight hose between the servo and the sensor (actually exactly like you have the hose, going up towards the sensor, but mine is straight) and than from the sensor, with a big bent, between Cylinders 1 and 3 to the flow devider. So the sensor is sort of left of the servo, under/in front of the oil pan (seen from the front). That is a shorter route (less hose, less weight) and leaves the sensor suspended from the hoses, free of engine vibration.

I covered the sensor with a large dia. firesleave.

I must admit, the Dynon fuel flow sensor is a lot less bulky and probably a lot lighter, than the red box you have got.

My fuel flow reading is dead steady and seems to be very accurate.

Regards, Tonny.
 
Hey Randy, thanks! I read the instructions that came from the red cube, and it gave three different acceptable ?up? positions ? wires up, access plate (with multiple screws) up, or outlet up. I didn?t really like just hanging that weight without restraint in the fuel line, and checked with a couple of engine guys (including Mahlon) who didn?t see a problem with a bracket, and in fact said there are numerous installations on spine bolts. I know of several installations that have a lot of hours mounted to brackets on the sump bolts, and some on the spine, near the flow divider. The remaining question is if there might be a vibration that drives the sensor nuts, which I think is Tonny's point, in which case I could always remove the bracket and let it hang. I will have to give this a little thought before committing to run it - the red cubes aren't cheap. Both are good inputs.

Paul
 
Paul-

reference to Tonny's vibration post----maybe, remove the bracket, and make 2 hose brackets that attach Adel clamps to the hoses a couple of inches away from the cube.
But---Lee Logan's Rocket has the red cube mounted to a bracket, clamped to a rear tube on the engine mount, and plumbed between the fuel pump and the servo. I havent heard him complain about inaccurate readings.
I guess testing is the real answer. IF we need to modify the hoses, no issue.
Tom
 
I like the idea of two Adel clamps off the sump bolts as an alternative - it would certainly give a different stiffness to the mount, and I have seen a number of red cubes mounted with a single Adel clamp so that they don't move around. the problem, of course, is that we don't really know what stiffness we want to prevent damage to the cube and give accurate readings. As I said - good things to think about, and it is accessible if I decide to make a change at anytime.

Paul
 
fuel line conflict with engine baffles?

Hi Paul,

Where your line runs up behind the #4 cylinder to the divider, isn't there a cooling baffle that occupies some of that real estate? Or do the cheek-cowled engines cool differently?
 
Hi Paul,

Where your line runs up behind the #4 cylinder to the divider, isn't there a cooling baffle that occupies some of that real estate? Or do the cheek-cowled engines cool differently?

Yes, No, and (like everything else in the -3), it is going to be very tight....;)

I did a few preemptive measurements on a couple of other planes, and I am pretty confident it will fit, but just barely. You'll notice that the line has not yet been secured, as it might change positions a little bit before e tie it down. A backup plan is to go INSIDE the engine mount then through the rear baffle between the left LORD mount and centerline. In the worst case, I can flip the entire Spider assembly over from left to right, and go around that way, but I am optimistic at this point.

Building a -3 is a new adventure every day, with emotions running from triumph to tragedy and back again.

Paul
 
curious

Building a -3 is a new adventure every day, with emotions running from triumph to tragedy and back again.

What makes building an RV-3 different than what many of us did with the RV-4 20 years ago? Thats what I remember the most: " highs and lows" of trying to figure out how to do the FWF without having all of the premade parts and very few chances to see what others had done in that area. The manual even had a statement to the effect that the FWF is left to the builders descretion because of the many variables. I think I spent as much time looking at it and thinking about it as I did actually doing it, if not more.

just curious

cm
 
What makes building an RV-3 different than what many of us did with the RV-4 20 years ago? Thats what I remember the most: " highs and lows" of trying to figure out how to do the FWF without having all of the premade parts and very few chances to see what others had done in that area. The manual even had a statement to the effect that the FWF is left to the builders descretion because of the many variables. I think I spent as much time looking at it and thinking about it as I did actually doing it, if not more.

just curious

cm

I suspect that building a -4 20 years ago was very similar Chris - and there was no Internet community (to speak of) to go to for help. I ave looked at current -4 drawings, and they are a bit more complete and sophisticated than those for the -3, but I have no idea what they looked like back then.

I guess I was speaking to the vast majority of current builders who are workign on much more sophisticated kits than folks had back then - heck, they even have kits and drawings for the FWF now! ;)

Paul
 
One of the reasons I post a fair number of pictures and comments on the -3 build is to get the opinions of others on what looks right, since so much is left to the builder's imagination! And I listen closely to the feedback I get. With a couple of well-respected people voicing reservations about the "red Cube" mount on the engine, I decided to go straight to the source - Electronics International. "Everyone is on the phone right now - can I have someone call you back?" Sure, I figured - let's see if that happens....but within a couple of minuted, my phone rang, and it was Tyler from EI - great customer responsiveness!

I explained what I had done for a mount, and the concerns over vibration affecting the accuracy and lifetime of the cube. After discussing the mounting requirements for the unit (flex lines in and out, an upstream progression of fuel - no sumps), he said we were good to go - hard mounting to the engine was a very good way to do it. What then, was the concern over vibration? The PREVIOUS DESIGN did indeed have a bearing issue - vibration killed the bearings. they have since changed the design inside the cube completely, and vibration-induced sensor death has not been a problem since. So, as Tyler put it, "everyone is right!"

I wanted to make sure that feedback got out there - I really do like this mounting location. And I am still going to watch it very carefully during phase 1.

Paul
 
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pics

In addition to what others have said:

-Standard rule of thumb is all bolts face aft, inboard, or down when possible. Couple of AN3 bolts securing the cable lower left side should be flipped 180. You might also fab a guillotine to properly secure the cable....that cable should have a slot for one.

-Cotter pin 101 - same pic, the lower engine mount castle nut cotter pin should be removed and installed properly. One end is folded over the bolt head (OK) but the other end is twisted then rotated at a 90 (NG). The 'preferred' method is one side over the bolt end and the other opposite and across the flat of the nut.....snipping long ends of course. 'Optional' method (not for me but exceptable) is to roll both ends around the nut....NO 'twisting' of the pin should occur. After seeing that one I'd check all cotter pins on the plane. There is a nice article in this months SA (with pics) if you're not sure how it's done.

-Other stuff that's real obvious but I'm sure you're on it (work in progress) :).

-I know Paul isn't building a show plane but, for other folks looking and reading. It only takes a half hour to an hour to polish the firewall to a mirror finish. This is real easy prior to installing the mount and is time WELL SPENT. I PROMISE YOU that polishing your firewall will get you off on the right foot as you move forward with the firewall stuff. You will go out of your way to keep everything else as neat and tidy as the stainless firewall. Not doing so is kind of like putting your steak dinner on a dirty plate :eek:.

Just a comment, as much as I like Mattituck and ALL the folks that work there you'd think they do a better job painting the push rod tubes and valve covers. I've bought numerous engines from them will continue to do so.....maybe I shouldn't expect so much :rolleyes:. I always have to remove them and repaint.

Interesting comment on the FF meter. I'm still not ready to mount any of mine on the engine but good to know just the same, TY.

Good luck with your project, should be fun to fly when it's done.
 
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I knew I should have put a disclaimer on that cotter pin, seeing how it was front and center. I replaced it a few days ago when I was cleaning things up. And NOTHING has been secured, clamped, adjusted, shielded, etc. I thought I disclaimered that so people wouldn't get the wrong idea.

....and you're right - I don't build show planes, I build planes that I am comfortable with. Don't want to worry about those first scratches. the firewall was cleaned up with 600 grit paper to a nice matt finish. It's what I prefer - different strokes.

Paul
 
Seems like the aviation community could spawn a "Best of Show II" movie!

-I know Paul isn't building a show plane but, for other folks looking and reading. It only takes a half hour to an hour to polish the firewall to a mirror finish. This is real easy prior to installing the mount and is time WELL SPENT. I PROMISE YOU that polishing your firewall will get you off on the right foot as you move forward with the firewall stuff. You will go out of your way to keep everything else as neat and tidy as the stainless firewall. Not doing so is kind of like putting your steak dinner on a dirty plate :eek:.

This plane will be no Hanger Queen and I have no interest in such fastidiousness. I don't own show dogs, either. But, my dogs are healthy, well-behaved, a bit rugged, and a joy to have in the family. That's what I expect for Junior.

Folks, please be constructive and stick ON TOPIC when someone is sharing their work in progress. Lots of things are done as placeholders in the construction process and all the useful knowledge exchanged by these sort of posts will shut down if folks feel compelled to publically criticize everything they can see in a photograph. If you think there's a safety issue that they are missing, PM the person. If you want to share your hints on making a Best of Show firewall, start a thread on that topic.
 
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