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RV-12 ULS conversion to IFR

H

henrysamson

Member
This video just came out on youtube. The pilot installed a Garmin GPS 175 WAAS IFR certified GPS in his RV-12 ULS with a single Dynon Skyview PFD. That makes his plane now basic IFR and a TAA as the GPS 175 is considered an MFD. Can be used for Commercial Pilot aeronautical experience.

He goes into the install and shoots a couple of approaches in VFR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53fNmWzoJ7A



Henry
 
I have been pining for an IFR capability but have been struggling with a path forward. I have a dual screen Dynon and so my panel space it limited for new avionics.

The other limiting factor is electrical power. Do I install a second AHRS? How about a second radio? How about a heated pitot? They all bite into the power budget, especially the heated pitot. I think modern pitot heat systems cycle on and off rather than stay on constantly so that helps some.

I don't want to do hard IFR but it would be nice to be able to climb / descend through a layer. For that how many of these optional systems would I be comfortable not having? I am still scratching my head on an IFR capability. I'd love to hear what others have done.
 
You could add the EDGE Performance auxiliary alternator to get an extra 15A or 32A amps of independent electrical power. It adds about 6 lbs to the engine weight and you have to consider the HP loss for power generation. Cost is somewhere in the $2,500+ range. I see around 38A total load with all the electrical items on (Dynon SV system, GTR200, IFD540 COMM/NAV, two iPads, dual landing lights, Dynon heated pitot and FI ECU and fuel pump). If you are running a ULS with carbs, the 15A version should be adequate.

I have gotten spoiled having two comms, I usually use COM1 for tower and approach and COM2 for ATIS/Ground/CATF/Unicom. I would recommend a second AHRS for the second SV screen to give you a full backup on attitude and IAS.

https://stolcreek.com/alternator
https://shop.edgeperformance.no/butikk/edgeperformance-produkter/electrical-system

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
 
I have been flying my Europa with Rotax 914 IFR for about 20 years. My approach is a little different.

Redundancy – how much do you need? Today’s radios do not fail like the ones from 30-40 years ago and even if a radio fails, the IFR system has a procedure to follow (squawk 7600 and follow your filed plan). I am content with my single GNC355 WAAS GPS/Com. Previously I had a GNS430 non WAAS/Com/Nav. I do use an iPad with FltPlnGO providing GPS course information. Some people carry a handheld com or gps/nav/com but my experience has been without a dedicated external antenna, com performance is poor.

Electrical capacity-Rotax electrical capacity is limited, a 914 or 912ULS (carbs) is a max of 20 amps, and realistically you shouldn’t plan for much over 15 amps. The first consideration is that the Ducatti regulator/rectifier suppled by Rotax has a history of failure due to poor construction and undersized heat sink. Replace the Ducatti with a B&C AVL-1 which has been specifically designed to solve these problems. My Europa with two GRT EFIS screens, GRT EIS, GNC355 GPS/Com, GMA240 audio panel, Appareo ESG Mode S ADSB out transponder, Stratux ADSB In receiver, LED strobe lights and one electric fuel pump consumes 8 amps in cruise. I am comfortable with this setup since I load check my EarthX battery every Condition Inspection to ensure it will deliver at least 10 amps for 60 minutes before falling below 12 volts. If I have an electrical failure, I have 60 minutes to land.

Pitot heat is not required per FAR 91.205. The newer Garmin and Dynon heated pitots cycle and reduce the power requirements to just 10 amps, so the Rotax system should be able to keep up. I have an old AN5814 pitot static tube which draws nearly 15 amps. I seldom power it on but should I need it, my battery provides the energy in excess of what the generating system can provide. While pitot airspeed is nice to have, we have GPS ground speed available which is good ballpark information. In my Europa I fly approaches and landing using pitch for airspeed control and power for rate of descent, so actual airspeed is nice to know but not required.

BTW, if you decide you need more electrical capacity, Monkworkz seems like a good choice. It will use the vacuum pump mount on a Rotax, but be sure your Rotax has the gear installed.

Hope this helps.

Jim Butcher
 
I have been flying my Europa with Rotax 914 IFR for about 20 years. My approach is a little different.

Redundancy – how much do you need? Today’s radios do not fail like the ones from 30-40 years ago and even if a radio fails, the IFR system has a procedure to follow (squawk 7600 and follow your filed plan). I am content with my single GNC355 WAAS GPS/Com. Previously I had a GNS430 non WAAS/Com/Nav. I do use an iPad with FltPlnGO providing GPS course information. Some people carry a handheld com or gps/nav/com but my experience has been without a dedicated external antenna, com performance is poor.

Electrical capacity-Rotax electrical capacity is limited, a 914 or 912ULS (carbs) is a max of 20 amps, and realistically you shouldn’t plan for much over 15 amps. The first consideration is that the Ducatti regulator/rectifier suppled by Rotax has a history of failure due to poor construction and undersized heat sink. Replace the Ducatti with a B&C AVL-1 which has been specifically designed to solve these problems. My Europa with two GRT EFIS screens, GRT EIS, GNC355 GPS/Com, GMA240 audio panel, Appareo ESG Mode S ADSB out transponder, Stratux ADSB In receiver, LED strobe lights and one electric fuel pump consumes 8 amps in cruise. I am comfortable with this setup since I load check my EarthX battery every Condition Inspection to ensure it will deliver at least 10 amps for 60 minutes before falling below 12 volts. If I have an electrical failure, I have 60 minutes to land.

Pitot heat is not required per FAR 91.205. The newer Garmin and Dynon heated pitots cycle and reduce the power requirements to just 10 amps, so the Rotax system should be able to keep up. I have an old AN5814 pitot static tube which draws nearly 15 amps. I seldom power it on but should I need it, my battery provides the energy in excess of what the generating system can provide. While pitot airspeed is nice to have, we have GPS ground speed available which is good ballpark information. In my Europa I fly approaches and landing using pitch for airspeed control and power for rate of descent, so actual airspeed is nice to know but not required.

BTW, if you decide you need more electrical capacity, Monkworkz seems like a good choice. It will use the vacuum pump mount on a Rotax, but be sure your Rotax has the gear installed.

Hope this helps or at least gives another perspective.

Jim Butcher
 
I have a Flight Design CTSW with dual SkyView HDX, Garmin 625, dual ADAHRS, Garmin GPS and Dynon GPS, heated pitot and feed them with an add-on 40A alternator. I had to modify the cowl to accommodate the alternator. I have the same interest - get down through a layer if the weather changes. I have not flown it IFR to date and would never deliberately fly hard IFR with no wing, windshield or prop heat. The 40A alternator handles everything very nicely. I built the alternator assembly from individual parts I got from LEAF. Brett helped me out there. It's the same as Rotax sold at the time.
 
My Kitfox IV is Rotax 912 ULS powered and was originally a Day/Night VFR only aircraft. I did include a Dynon D10A with the original build that has an iFly gps coupled to it. I practiced under the hood with the set up and felt it was usable in an emergency but the plane was a bit too spirited for regular IFR.

Then, I installed a two axis autopilot and I realized that I would have no issues with climbing through a thin overcast layer or shooting an approach through the same with high enough ceilings. Many modifications were made and I posted them on the Dynon forum:

https://forum.flydynon.com/threads/inexpensive-ifr-gps-solution.14170/

The stock alternator built into the 912 handles all of this with capacity to spare. About 7 amps with the LED strobes and nav lights. More when transmitting of course.

My current build is an RV-12iS and the Garmin IFR avionics package is installed. I do plan to add some sort of backup attitude after first flight.

Henry
 
Last edited:
henrysamson said:
My current build is an RV-12iS and the Garmin IFR avionics package is installed.
Click to expand...

Are you planning on installing the Garmin GNC 355? The depth of this Garmin box puts it very close to the firewall on my legacy RV-12. It is almost as deep as the SL40 I currently have installed. The difference, though, is that the SL40 wiring comes out sideways. It looks like the GNC 355 wiring wants to come straight out the back. I think it will fit but it will be tight in back with some bent wires.
 
bbaggerman said:
I have been pining for an IFR capability but have been struggling with a path forward. I have a dual screen Dynon and so my panel space it limited for new avionics.

The other limiting factor is electrical power. Do I install a second AHRS? How about a second radio? How about a heated pitot? They all bite into the power budget, especially the heated pitot. I think modern pitot heat systems cycle on and off rather than stay on constantly so that helps some.

I don't want to do hard IFR but it would be nice to be able to climb / descend through a layer. For that how many of these optional systems would I be comfortable not having? I am still scratching my head on an IFR capability. I'd love to hear what others have done.
Click to expand...

I thought light sport aircraft were prohibited from flying in IMC conditions, regardless of equipment or pilot capabilities.. you could file IFR, but you had to stay in VMC conditions.. I’ll look for the reg and edit this post if I can find it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lsa+in+imc&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
 
h&jeuropa said:
I have been flying my Europa with Rotax 914 IFR for about 20 years. My approach is a little different.

Redundancy – how much do you need? Today’s radios do not fail like the ones from 30-40 years ago and even if a radio fails, the IFR system has a procedure to follow (squawk 7600 and follow your filed plan). I am content with my single GNC355 WAAS GPS/Com. Previously I had a GNS430 non WAAS/Com/Nav. I do use an iPad with FltPlnGO providing GPS course information. Some people carry a handheld com or gps/nav/com but my experience has been without a dedicated external antenna, com performance is poor.

Electrical capacity-Rotax electrical capacity is limited, a 914 or 912ULS (carbs) is a max of 20 amps, and realistically you shouldn’t plan for much over 15 amps. The first consideration is that the Ducatti regulator/rectifier suppled by Rotax has a history of failure due to poor construction and undersized heat sink. Replace the Ducatti with a B&C AVL-1 which has been specifically designed to solve these problems. My Europa with two GRT EFIS screens, GRT EIS, GNC355 GPS/Com, GMA240 audio panel, Appareo ESG Mode S ADSB out transponder, Stratux ADSB In receiver, LED strobe lights and one electric fuel pump consumes 8 amps in cruise. I am comfortable with this setup since I load check my EarthX battery every Condition Inspection to ensure it will deliver at least 10 amps for 60 minutes before falling below 12 volts. If I have an electrical failure, I have 60 minutes to land.

Pitot heat is not required per FAR 91.205. The newer Garmin and Dynon heated pitots cycle and reduce the power requirements to just 10 amps, so the Rotax system should be able to keep up. I have an old AN5814 pitot static tube which draws nearly 15 amps. I seldom power it on but should I need it, my battery provides the energy in excess of what the generating system can provide. While pitot airspeed is nice to have, we have GPS ground speed available which is good ballpark information. In my Europa I fly approaches and landing using pitch for airspeed control and power for rate of descent, so actual airspeed is nice to know but not required.

BTW, if you decide you need more electrical capacity, Monkworkz seems like a good choice. It will use the vacuum pump mount on a Rotax, but be sure your Rotax has the gear installed.

Hope this helps.

Jim Butcher
Click to expand...

Is your Europa registered LSA? Do you fly IFR in IMC conditions or only VMC conditions? I thought LSA were prohibited from IMC conditions?

https://www.google.com/search?q=lsa+in+imc&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
 
bbaggerman said:
Are you planning on installing the Garmin GNC 355?
Click to expand...

I ordered the Garmin IFR avionics package that was available for the RV-12iS at the time I ordered in August of 2022. The kit order pages for the RV-12 are still not back online but I assume that this package will still be an option. The Garmin GTN650Xi is supplied as the Com/Nav/GPS for the installation. I have installed it and it IS a tight fit for the RV-12iS. I see that the depth of the GNC 355 is the same and I'm not sure if your Legacy RV-12 has the same depth behind the panel.

Henry
 
Taltruda said:
Is your Europa registered LSA? Do you fly IFR in IMC conditions or only VMC conditions? I thought LSA were prohibited from IMC conditions?
Click to expand...

An SLSA cannot fly in IMC at the current time due to the ASTM standards. An ELSA can. I just completed the phase I test flights for a newly completed RV-12 with the ULS engine and the Operating Limitations CLEARLY state that after phase I testing the aircraft can fly at night and in IFR conditions if equipped in accordance with 91.205.

The FAA has no issue with SLSA or ELSA aircraft flying in IMC. It is the ASTM standards that govern the SLSA aircraft that prevent it. An ELSA aircraft is not limited in this way. In fact, some owners are having their SLSA aircraft converted to ELSA just to allow flight into IMC. The owners lose the ability to rent their aircraft after the conversion.

Henry
 
Last edited:
henrysamson said:
An SLSA cannot fly in IMC at the current time due to the ASTM standards. An ELSA can. I just completed the phase I test flights for a newly completed RV-12 with the ULS engine and the Operating Limitations CLEARLY state that after phase I testing the aircraft can fly at night and in IFR conditions if equipped in accordance with 91.205.

The FAA has no issue with SLSA or ELSA aircraft flying in IMC. It is the ASTM standards that govern the SLSA aircraft that prevent it. An ELSA aircraft is not limited in this way. In fact, some owners are having their SLSA aircraft converted to ELSA just to allow flight into IMC. The owners lose the ability to rent their aircraft after the conversion.

Henry
Click to expand...

Awesome! Thank you, I learned something!
 
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