Van's Air Force
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RV-12 incident in Chadron, NE
- Thread starter Wayne Gillispie
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RFSchaller
Well Known Member
Poor guy! The FAA website said A/W certificate was issued a month ago. I'm glad he's OK.
PilotBrent
Well Known Member
Where did the gear go?
The picture seems to show that all the gear legs sheared off, but the rest of the aircraft remained relatively intact (although the left wing and fuselage do appear seriously wrinkled/damaged). Ironically looks more like a gear up landing.
With the kind of force necessary to remove all three legs, I'm really impressed that the integrity of the rest of the -12 seemed to hold together well in the crash.
The picture seems to show that all the gear legs sheared off, but the rest of the aircraft remained relatively intact (although the left wing and fuselage do appear seriously wrinkled/damaged). Ironically looks more like a gear up landing.
With the kind of force necessary to remove all three legs, I'm really impressed that the integrity of the rest of the -12 seemed to hold together well in the crash.
Paris12Man
Well Known Member
How sad
Happy he is Ok. The picture makes me think of a retractable gear mod....hmmmmmm
Happy he is Ok. The picture makes me think of a retractable gear mod....hmmmmmm
Wow--thats alot of force to remove the 3 gear legs.
This one's going to be interesting.
This one's going to be interesting.
rv3flier
Well Known Member
"Experienced a mechanical problem with the canopy" -- e.g. forgot to latch it? Will the canopy "float" a few inches above the fuselage, or will it open enough to disturb air flow over the empenage?
[Speculating already? All please revisit posting rule #6. dr]
[Speculating already? All please revisit posting rule #6. dr]
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DonFromTX
Well Known Member
Driftdown
Well Known Member
Good question, Don.
I was wondering the same thing.
Glad to hear the pilot did not get seriously hurt.
The aluminum can be replaced.
This type of incident seems to be a recurring problem for the RV-12. Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't this happened several times before (canopy popping open)?
Besides training and procedures, IMHO, there needs to be some kind of "last chance" safety fix (mechanical) to keep that canopy from popping open during the ground roll and flight. At a minimum, it is a major distraction, when the pilot already has his/her hands full, flying the aircraft.
Perhaps some type of "breakaway" lanyard chord, strong enough to keep the canopy from "flying open," but easily severed during an emergency egress. Anything that will keep the canopy closed, should the handle become unlocked during critical phases.
Anybody else have any opinions on this?
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DonFromTX
Well Known Member
If I recall correctly, several have reported it as a non event when they have taken off with the canopy unlatched, and simply latched it or did a pattern and landed to latch it. Unless quite improperly assembled, I cannot imagine the latch failing and coming open in flight.
Apparently is is an exciting enough event to create confusion on the part of the pilot since there have been several such events that we know of. (maps and cockpit items blowing around and exiting the craft.
I used to forget to latch my door on the old Cherokee, gets your attention quite fast, but if you ignore the noise and wind, it will fly perfectly well that way, once in a hurry on a short trip, I just flew it to my destination that way...
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Apparently is is an exciting enough event to create confusion on the part of the pilot since there have been several such events that we know of. (maps and cockpit items blowing around and exiting the craft.
I used to forget to latch my door on the old Cherokee, gets your attention quite fast, but if you ignore the noise and wind, it will fly perfectly well that way, once in a hurry on a short trip, I just flew it to my destination that way...
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12vaitor
Well Known Member
Perhaps a unlatched canopy takeoff and landing could be added to the RV-12 transition training course. That would at least take out the surprise reaction/panic factor when it happens inadvertently. Not sure if there are any structural issues with doing that on a regular basis, but the training would be worthwhile.
John Salak
RV-12 #116
John Salak
RV-12 #116
MartySantic
Well Known Member
As I have mentioned in a previous post, it has happened to me due to error on my part. The canopy will float about 2''. The wind and noise can disturb but one MUST continue to fly the airplane and NOT try to relatch the canopy (it is NOT possible until one lands).
FLY the AIRPLANE!
JUST BEFORE THE GROUND ROLL FOR EVERY TAKE-OFF SAY and CHECK...... TRIM, FLAPS, CANOPY.
We have been having far too many canopy related incidents, many leading to loss of control.
FLY the AIRPLANE!
JUST BEFORE THE GROUND ROLL FOR EVERY TAKE-OFF SAY and CHECK...... TRIM, FLAPS, CANOPY.
We have been having far too many canopy related incidents, many leading to loss of control.
txaviator
Well Known Member
Idiot Light
I am installing an idiot light in the panel. It will illuminate if the canopy is not fully closed & latched. I'll incorporate my switch/magnet so that the light is only non-illuminated when the latch is fully secured. I'm just looking for one more safety reminder to latch mine- beyond my checklist.
I am installing an idiot light in the panel. It will illuminate if the canopy is not fully closed & latched. I'll incorporate my switch/magnet so that the light is only non-illuminated when the latch is fully secured. I'm just looking for one more safety reminder to latch mine- beyond my checklist.
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
Some with Skyview have added it to the screen, you get a red warning light (and maybe some audio as well, I am not sure). I am intending to put that on my SV screen.
yankee-flyer
Well Known Member
I'm one of those
who took off with the canopy only partially latched shortly after completing the flight test cards. 15 minutes into the flight it popped open but just about 4-6 inches. Noisy, windy etc, but no effect on the handling of the airplane. Even at 7o kt. I couldn't pull it far enough to latch, so I proceeded to the nearest airport and landed. Latched it firmly, took off, and haven't to lock it since.
Wayne 120241/143WM
who took off with the canopy only partially latched shortly after completing the flight test cards. 15 minutes into the flight it popped open but just about 4-6 inches. Noisy, windy etc, but no effect on the handling of the airplane. Even at 7o kt. I couldn't pull it far enough to latch, so I proceeded to the nearest airport and landed. Latched it firmly, took off, and haven't to lock it since.
Wayne 120241/143WM
Pardon me - what's the big deal? Fly the airplane!
Aviate - Navigate - Communicate.
In August 1972, a Yugoslav 707 aborted its take-off from JFK in NY 3 seconds after V1 (Go-NoGo Decision speed) after the co-pilot's sliding windshield popped open. The airplane overran the end of the runway during the stopping sequence, struck a blast fence at the end, and was destroyed - but nobody was killed. The runway involved - 13R - is 14,600 ft long - enough to take-off and land again, but the details on not stopping are another story.
About August 2003, I was taking the 737 Prototype down runway 34R at Moses Lake, Washington, when the co-pilot's sliding windshield popped open. My co-pilot that day was the very man who had flown that very airplane on its First Flight in 1967. We were doing about 120-140 kts. The opening was like a canon blast, the noise unbelievable, the blast of air and dust and papers flying about the cockpit were unbelievable. But - fortunately - I remembered both the 707 JFK accident and the A - N - C mantra. We did nothing - when time allowed, we slowly and methodically closed the window and all was peaceful and quiet again.
I'm sure the noise and wind of a pokey RV-12 having the canopy open would be tame, very tame compared to what we experienced. Plus - we didn't have noise proofing headsets on. I never used headsets at all - mostly the cockpit speaker.
Canopy CLOSED and LATCHED is on your Before Take-off Checklist - isn't it?
Why add more switches, lights, and warnings to your already complex airplane? Can't you use your checklist? Maybe everyone ought to fly a circuit with the canopy unlatched, just to get the experience......
My two cents worth.
Bob Bogash
N737G
Aviate - Navigate - Communicate.
In August 1972, a Yugoslav 707 aborted its take-off from JFK in NY 3 seconds after V1 (Go-NoGo Decision speed) after the co-pilot's sliding windshield popped open. The airplane overran the end of the runway during the stopping sequence, struck a blast fence at the end, and was destroyed - but nobody was killed. The runway involved - 13R - is 14,600 ft long - enough to take-off and land again, but the details on not stopping are another story.
About August 2003, I was taking the 737 Prototype down runway 34R at Moses Lake, Washington, when the co-pilot's sliding windshield popped open. My co-pilot that day was the very man who had flown that very airplane on its First Flight in 1967. We were doing about 120-140 kts. The opening was like a canon blast, the noise unbelievable, the blast of air and dust and papers flying about the cockpit were unbelievable. But - fortunately - I remembered both the 707 JFK accident and the A - N - C mantra. We did nothing - when time allowed, we slowly and methodically closed the window and all was peaceful and quiet again.
I'm sure the noise and wind of a pokey RV-12 having the canopy open would be tame, very tame compared to what we experienced. Plus - we didn't have noise proofing headsets on. I never used headsets at all - mostly the cockpit speaker.
Canopy CLOSED and LATCHED is on your Before Take-off Checklist - isn't it?
Why add more switches, lights, and warnings to your already complex airplane? Can't you use your checklist? Maybe everyone ought to fly a circuit with the canopy unlatched, just to get the experience......
My two cents worth.
Bob Bogash
N737G
RFSchaller
Well Known Member
Bob,
Your basic premis is spot on about flying the airplane, but the experience and currency of the GA community is much more varied than the ATP community you come from. I can't fault anybody who thought it through and decided a warning was the right decision for them. If I had a dime for every time I forgot to turn on the electric pump in my Cherokee before landing I could afford the STC for a pump run light!
Rich
Your basic premis is spot on about flying the airplane, but the experience and currency of the GA community is much more varied than the ATP community you come from. I can't fault anybody who thought it through and decided a warning was the right decision for them. If I had a dime for every time I forgot to turn on the electric pump in my Cherokee before landing I could afford the STC for a pump run light!
Rich
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Rich is spot on. I fly almost daily for a living, so my mindset is airplanes, airplanes and more airplanes, daily.
Most of the guys here have other day jobs that preoccupy their minds, so on those rare days when they're excited to get to do what we take so much for granted, they have to "re-group" thought processes and get in a "flying" mode.
That said, however, they should be reading this and have a good checklist and actually USE it.
Mine's memorized..CIGAR TIP.
C controls free and correct movement
I instruments checked
G gas quantity and proper tank selected
A altimeter set
R runup and mag check
T trim set for takeoff (extremely important in a -10).
I INTERIOR: DOORS Closed and latched, belts fastened, windows locked.
P prop forward in takeoff setting.
This is basic but it covers the important stuff.
Best,
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