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RV-10 start

Pat Stewart

Well Known Member
Since my 10 was finished I have had the same finicky start issue. When I first engage the ignition the engine barely turns over and stops as if the battery were dead. I then try again and it usually repeats once or twice more until finally it spins the prop and starts normally.

Any ideas.

Pat
 
Are you using a Starter Solenoid on teh firewall? If so, it is possible that is the culprite (even a new one, if you twisted the contacts during istallation - I just learned that!). Try jumping around the solenoid (with a big jumper wire) and see if it cranks any better - this is just one thing that could cause this behavior.
 
That was my experience with the LS starter that comes with the factory engine. I got tired of the embarassment of false starts and upgraded to the NL which has more torque.

Before even touching the starter i tried to get a replacement NL but was told once Lycoming bolted it to the engine, they considered it used. Early builders were able to jump on Skytec to get free replacements, but i had to pay the difference.

Jae
 
Just for info, in 2010, prior to any use, Lycoming (not Skytec) swapped starters for me, for free. I have heard that they may not do that now.
 
finally it spins the prop and starts normally.

Pat

Pat just to confirm what your saying, it does at some point crank at normal speeds? Or is it that it eventually gets up enough flywheel effect to turnover slowly, but enough to get it started?
If its the latter it could be an undersized supply wire.
 
Pat just to confirm what your saying, it does at some point crank at normal speeds? Or is it that it eventually gets up enough flywheel effect to turnover slowly, but enough to get it started?
If its the latter it could be an undersized supply wire.

It's almost as if its on the compression stroke and just not enough torque to turn over until after it gets through it and then it spins up as normal. Just guessing but that's what I am thinking.

Pat
 
With the Vans firewall forward kit, and a larger battery than specified, I had the same problem with the LS starter. Swapped for the NL (skytec had a charge, but it was only a fraction of a new starter with the trade-in.). Problem went away. My understanding is that all new engines for the 10 now come with the larger starter.

Aaron
 
I have the LS starter

and mine starts great even in 20F temps. If you have a #2 ga feed from PC925 battery, a good solenoid, good connections and a good ground back to battery it will turn over as fast or faster than an NL on a normal 8.5 compression 540.

Since you said it has been doing it since new, I would check and clean all connections from one end to the other. Did you sand the paint off of 6 ea mounting areas of your engine mount then apply dielectric grease before installing mount? Same on ground straps from engine to mount?

A quick way to check your airframe ground is to run 16' jumper cable from neg terminal at battery to engine. Leave existing ground connected at battery too. If it starts good you know where to continue troubleshooting.
 
I agree with Wayne

Sounds like connection problems or too small gauge wire.

I used perihelion design battery cables. Copper clad aluminum, 45% lighter than the weight of 2 gauge, strong starts.
 
#2 wire, so that leaves ground and solenoid. The battery is the Concorde from Vans. I will check ground first. I have a good braided ground wire engine to firewall but I will check the paint on the engine side. As for the starter solenoid, can this be purchased at pep boys aviation or must I go the shipping cost route from Vans.

Pat
 
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Me too, again.

Once again, I copied what Sean did. I used the Perihelion magic yellow fat cable, NL starter, PC925 battery. Starts like a champ every time. I'm pretty sure a major reason for the strong start is the yellow cable. The numbers on it are pretty impressive, but if you're flying you can't really change that.
 
The concord battery just does not crank like the PC925. All the tens I know switched from the concord for better starts.
 
Pat,
Before you convict any specific item, you need to do a little investigative work. Go to this web page and follow the troubleshooting guide http://www.skytecair.com/troubleshooting.htm.
The first two key items to measure are:
1. Voltage at Battery when cranking should be > 11V
2. Voltage at starter while cranking > 10V
Then connect the leads of the voltmeter from the input terminal to the output terminal of the starter solenoid, then measure the following:
3. Voltage drop measured across the master solenoid < .3 V
4. Voltage drop measured across the starter solenoid < .3 V

To check your grounding system, measure the voltage drop from the case of the starter to the negative terminal of the battery. You will have to extend the voltmeters leads to do this. This will verify you have a good ground path. You should not have more than .5V drop. A good ground should not have more than .1V drop. Is the ground strap at least equivalent to a #2 gauge wire?

You can measure your voltage drop across each cable in the same manner as you measure the drop across the solenoids. A poorly crimped terminal can cause issues, as well as wire being of too small a gauge. #2 copper wire should be the minimum gauge used.

Record all your measurements and then determine the next step. Setting this all aside, if you have 11 volts to your starter while cranking, the starter is the culprit.

Another issue which can cause this, un-related to the starter voltage is timing advance. Did you hook up the ignition switch properly? Assuming you have 2 mags, the right mag "P" lead should be grounded when the switch is in the crank/start position. The right mag is disabled during cranking. If it is not, then timing being too advanced on the right mag will cause this. Do you have the slick start module hooked up correctly to the retard breaker and "p" lead on the left mag? Is it getting power?


I would purchase the solenoid from Vans or ACS. There are 2 versions, continuous duty (Master) and intermittent duty (Starter).
 
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Thanks for all the feedback, this group is great. I am sure the wire gauge issue can be eliminated, it's correct. Voltage at the starter while cranking will be next and if good then the starter.

Thanks for the help and I will post findings.

Pat
 
Fixed

Ok, just an update. It was the starter. The new NL starter works great.

Thanks for all he input, it helped me trouble shoot the system and verify that the starter was the issue.

Pat
 
For anyone with a pre-2012 IO-540-D4A5 from Van's with the LS starter. I finally got around to measuring inrush current on mine. 438 Amps with 50F Aeroshell 15W50 and 409 Amps after fuel stop with 150F oil. Skytec data says over 300 Amps. Just a little.

With the LS...You must have no paint or corrosion under engine mount and ground lugs, #2 ga or larger wire from the back, crimped/soldered lugs, perfect solenoids, perfect battery and perfect starter. Mine still spins like crazy, but I can see why Lycoming started using the NL. I will replace mine at the first sign of trouble.
 
LS vs NL

How can I tell the difference in the starters. Are they marked LS or NL? I have never had a problem starting but at times it seems to work a little hard. Ours is a 2008 model (so I suspect LS). I am the second owner.

Thanks
 
The last 2 digits will be either NL or LS. The first photo is the NL and the second is the LS, so big difference in appearance also. Here is their website http://www.skytecair.com/Lycoming.htm





NL.gif









LS.gif
 
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