cyrilmclavin
Active Member
I saw a post one day about a pneumatic squeeser with a remote caliper type rivet setter but i have been unable to find the post. can anybody help..
cyril
cyril
Van's Air Force
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rivet squeezer
- Thread starter cyrilmclavin
- Start date
Hi Manny et al,
I'm the inventor guy of the Hydropneumatic squeezer sold by CAT. Thanks for the compliments regarding the tool. I would add that the old axiom still stands "you get what you pay for". The units are cnc machined from bar stock, no castings as you will find in your $600+ pneumatic only units available since WWII. It also has distinct advantages which you can read about on Cleavelands site. Anyway, I respect those who don't want to spend the money on a powered squeezer of any type. While building my -7, I held off of purchasing a pneumatic squeezer, until I beat the **** out of some parts with a gun and bucking bar (and I taught riveting classes at a local JVS).
I'm the inventor guy of the Hydropneumatic squeezer sold by CAT. Thanks for the compliments regarding the tool. I would add that the old axiom still stands "you get what you pay for". The units are cnc machined from bar stock, no castings as you will find in your $600+ pneumatic only units available since WWII. It also has distinct advantages which you can read about on Cleavelands site. Anyway, I respect those who don't want to spend the money on a powered squeezer of any type. While building my -7, I held off of purchasing a pneumatic squeezer, until I beat the **** out of some parts with a gun and bucking bar (and I taught riveting classes at a local JVS).
bkthomps,
I would say the cycle time is about 75% of a traditional unit. Also, Don't forget to factor in the rest time for toting around a traditional 5.5lb unit! Most people who can afford the hobby aren't in their 20's and carpal tunnel (or the potential) is a real issue. I was moving fast and furious one night dimpling my -7 skins with a pneumatic unit and shot a dimple right next to the intended hole (brain and body got out of sequence). I couldn't live with that mistake, and a new skin soon arrived from Van's...
My opinion: Speed isnt everything.
I would say the cycle time is about 75% of a traditional unit. Also, Don't forget to factor in the rest time for toting around a traditional 5.5lb unit! Most people who can afford the hobby aren't in their 20's and carpal tunnel (or the potential) is a real issue. I was moving fast and furious one night dimpling my -7 skins with a pneumatic unit and shot a dimple right next to the intended hole (brain and body got out of sequence). I couldn't live with that mistake, and a new skin soon arrived from Van's...
My opinion: Speed isnt everything.
bkthomps,
I can't blame you, as it wouldn't have crossed my mind at that age either. I just turned 45 and want to still think I'm as fit as when 25. I still lift weights and run but I have a nerve issue in one forearm. It is a rotational movement thing, which in about 20 years may make twisting around some heavier tooling a real pain. You are most fortunate to be building a plane at your age, and I applaud you for it. Best of luck with your project!
I can't blame you, as it wouldn't have crossed my mind at that age either. I just turned 45 and want to still think I'm as fit as when 25. I still lift weights and run but I have a nerve issue in one forearm. It is a rotational movement thing, which in about 20 years may make twisting around some heavier tooling a real pain. You are most fortunate to be building a plane at your age, and I applaud you for it. Best of luck with your project!
Again neat tool. Saw the video on Cleavelands tools. But I will get the Main Squeeze and DRDT and squeeze/dimple late at night when the wife and kids are sound asleep. A compressor running the least is one that will last, create less stress (noise) for it's user and those around (family and neighbors if put outside). Also, the electric bill will be less. 
I'll take the saved mula and put it into a neat panel instead. Besides, thats why I'm going with the slow build, no hurries here. Same concept when we go fly, no hurry, enjoy the scenery.
I'm sure many other tool crazy RV builders will pick it up though.
I'll take the saved mula and put it into a neat panel instead. Besides, thats why I'm going with the slow build, no hurries here. Same concept when we go fly, no hurry, enjoy the scenery.I'm sure many other tool crazy RV builders will pick it up though.
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The Main Squeeze is a great tool and I wont try to dissuade you from buying it. I wouldn't mind having one myself. A guy can never have too many neat tools (well, maybe...).
One thing others may consider when building is the fact that when using a hand squeezer, you pretty much need to have the parts clamped on a work table, as it is a two handed operation. This means you are rotating the position of the tool and your hands, rather than the part, and likely reclamping to get access to all sides of the part. Also, the hand squeezer wont begin to get into as tight of areas and you will get extra weight lifting credit after squeezing hundreds by hand. But you should be able to get by with 98% of what you need to do with a hand squeezer like the Main Sqeeze.
Different strokes for different folks. I didn't design the Hydropneumatic Squeezer to compete with hand squeezers (can't at that cost differential) but to compete with existing bulky pneumatic squeezers and pop rivet pullers. It also will have commercial application as time goes on.
Hearing how others invest their time/money into their projects gives me a better idea of the interest level in my product. Thanks again for your input.
One thing others may consider when building is the fact that when using a hand squeezer, you pretty much need to have the parts clamped on a work table, as it is a two handed operation. This means you are rotating the position of the tool and your hands, rather than the part, and likely reclamping to get access to all sides of the part. Also, the hand squeezer wont begin to get into as tight of areas and you will get extra weight lifting credit after squeezing hundreds by hand. But you should be able to get by with 98% of what you need to do with a hand squeezer like the Main Sqeeze.
Different strokes for different folks. I didn't design the Hydropneumatic Squeezer to compete with hand squeezers (can't at that cost differential) but to compete with existing bulky pneumatic squeezers and pop rivet pullers. It also will have commercial application as time goes on.
Hearing how others invest their time/money into their projects gives me a better idea of the interest level in my product. Thanks again for your input.
Mark,
Let me be honest here. I'm actually on the fence between the pneumatic squeezer and the hand squeezer. I'm liking the pneumatic but don't for the above stated reasons. I'll have to do a cost comparison and then make a final decision. Again neat tool! When is the DRDT adapter going to be available and its price??
Let me be honest here. I'm actually on the fence between the pneumatic squeezer and the hand squeezer. I'm liking the pneumatic but don't for the above stated reasons. I'll have to do a cost comparison and then make a final decision. Again neat tool! When is the DRDT adapter going to be available and its price??
FlyingArcher
Well Known Member
DRDT Adapter
Hi Mark,
I'm highly interested in your DRDT Dimpling and Riveting adapter, mostly for the riveting part of it.
I've always found too bad that the DRDT could only be used for dimpling, but when I asked to the designer he clearly stated he didn't design his tool for riveting and while he agreed it would technically be usable for squeezing rivets, he didn't recommend it and that it would void warranty if anything would get broken while using the tool for riveting.
So I'd like to know what kind of adapter you plan to provide and how it will offer safe riveting capability.
Thanks and congratulations for designing such an appealing tool set.
Hi Mark,
I'm highly interested in your DRDT Dimpling and Riveting adapter, mostly for the riveting part of it.
I've always found too bad that the DRDT could only be used for dimpling, but when I asked to the designer he clearly stated he didn't design his tool for riveting and while he agreed it would technically be usable for squeezing rivets, he didn't recommend it and that it would void warranty if anything would get broken while using the tool for riveting.
So I'd like to know what kind of adapter you plan to provide and how it will offer safe riveting capability.
Thanks and congratulations for designing such an appealing tool set.
I purchased a Main Squeeze, and borrowed a pneumatic squeezer from a friend.
I have to admit that the pneumatic squeezer never leaves my shelf. I find that for rivets which I can squeeze (aka, close enough to an edge to not have to pull out the gun) the Main Squeeze is just better. Why? (a) it is lighter, and easier to get into the position where I need it. (b) it is thinner, so I can fit it into more places than I can get the pneumatic into. (It is also longer, so there are occasional places where it doesn't fit.) (c) it operates more slowly, giving me more control (and making it harder to really screw up).
It works just great for 3/32" and 1/8" rivets. I'm 36, so I don't have some of the carpal tunnel issues others might be concerned about.
Notice I didn't compare it to an Avery (or other traditional) hand squeezer. There is no comparison, the Main Squeeze is just superior. I am not a strong guy, and I don't have the strength to squeeze a 1/8" rivet using a traditional squeezer. (I can do 3/32" ones 'tho.) With the Main Squeeze, these larger rivets are no problem at all.
Chris
I have to admit that the pneumatic squeezer never leaves my shelf. I find that for rivets which I can squeeze (aka, close enough to an edge to not have to pull out the gun) the Main Squeeze is just better. Why? (a) it is lighter, and easier to get into the position where I need it. (b) it is thinner, so I can fit it into more places than I can get the pneumatic into. (It is also longer, so there are occasional places where it doesn't fit.) (c) it operates more slowly, giving me more control (and making it harder to really screw up).
It works just great for 3/32" and 1/8" rivets. I'm 36, so I don't have some of the carpal tunnel issues others might be concerned about.
Notice I didn't compare it to an Avery (or other traditional) hand squeezer. There is no comparison, the Main Squeeze is just superior. I am not a strong guy, and I don't have the strength to squeeze a 1/8" rivet using a traditional squeezer. (I can do 3/32" ones 'tho.) With the Main Squeeze, these larger rivets are no problem at all.
Chris
This alone, in my opinion, saves more time and money, than the time the pneumatic squeezer is saving.
Thanks Chris for your post!!
Rick6a
Well Known Member
If, as you say the pneumatic squeezer never leaves the shelf, I humbly submit that particular pneumatic squeezer is defective, set up or operated incorrectly. There is no way any hand squeezer, however efficient a design it is, can effectively go toe to toe against a fully functioning pneumatic squeezer. Over the years I have accumulated several different hand operated and two different "C" type pneumatic squeezers. Out of curiosity, I once borrowed and tried the highly touted Main Squeeze and concluded it does provide some additional mechanical advantage over lesser type hand squeezers. Still, we are hand squeezing tiny AD3 and AD4 rivets and possessed with average to less than average strength, I do not find manually hand setting those rivets very difficult to accomplish using a regular hand squeezer. The Main Squeeze is okay for what it is but in the end, I continue to vastly prefer the utility of the alligator type pneumatic squeezer over all other pretenders. Included below are two riveting situations, childs play for an alligator, where your basic "C" type squeezer, pneumatic OR hand operated, will be difficult to use or even rendered totally useless:
Here is a short 1 minute video I once made that graphically illustrates how fast a properly set up alligator type pneumatic squeezer can breeze through a high percentage of typical dimpling situations. Viewing the video, it should be readily apparent that with its balanced ergonomic ease, no hand operated or more cumbersome "C' type pneumatic squeezer can come close to completing dimpling operations as fast as an alligator while producing consistent high quality results every single time you pull the trigger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR2giHt2Mi0
Rivet Squeezer
I agree with Rick. I don't own a manual squeezer having purchased a Chicago Pneumatic C type pneumatic squeezer. It is my favorite tool (although I now see the advantages of the aligator type squeezer after watching Rick's video). I have found that the trigger on my pneumatic squeezer is actually a "throttle". I can advance the rivet set as slowly as I want using the throttle and if I don't like the alignment, release it and try again. I amd a solo builder and quite often I find myself holding parts with one hand and operating the squeezer with the other. In these cases I don't know how I would do it with a manual squeezer.
I agree with Rick. I don't own a manual squeezer having purchased a Chicago Pneumatic C type pneumatic squeezer. It is my favorite tool (although I now see the advantages of the aligator type squeezer after watching Rick's video). I have found that the trigger on my pneumatic squeezer is actually a "throttle". I can advance the rivet set as slowly as I want using the throttle and if I don't like the alignment, release it and try again. I amd a solo builder and quite often I find myself holding parts with one hand and operating the squeezer with the other. In these cases I don't know how I would do it with a manual squeezer.
clevtool
Well Known Member
I like the 'never ending debate' category that this is in.
Being able to see a more macro view of what people are using I can offer this... What squeezer builders prefer depends on a few things.
Being able to see a more macro view of what people are using I can offer this... What squeezer builders prefer depends on a few things.
Cost is a major factor when builders are new and just getting started. Many builders buy the cheapest stuff they can, unfortunately a great deal of our customers buy from us because they are replacing inferior tools, so they end up paying for both the good ones and the cheap ones. Due to this many builders start with a hand squeezer then move to a pneumatic. I can't ever really pin it down, but I have a sense that this is why new builders are told that they need both a hand and pneumatic squeezer by other builders.
Work environment is another variable. As ChrisC mentioned (and thank you for the testimonial) not wanting to run a compressor is common. Doing only a few operations is the biggest reason for my use of a hand squeezer. Doing small jobs out at the hangar where there is no compressor is another. And noise is a factor for some as well.
Building experience and efficiency is probably the largest factor. With Manny, whom I believe has not started yet, it is hard to see the advantage of such an expensive tool. Rick who has a lot of experience knows what is coming next and wants to burn through the repetitive work. For some they want to spend the money at the project start to ensure that their time is well spent and the building experience is as enjoyable as possible (having the right tool for the job it key to that).
