Being a new builder I have tried to research as much as I can learn from this website. You guys provide a lot of good information for a first time builder. One item I am curious about that I have not seen here is whether there is a preferred position for the AN470 rivet die versus the flat die. It would seem that the rivet manufactured head die would be best in the fixed position of the squeezer versus the portion that moves when the rivet is squeezed. This allows for firm pressure to be maintained between the rivet and the squeezer when the rivet squeezer is started. While squeezing rivets on the rudder spar I reversed the positions to get best access with the tool in a couple of cases. This means that the manufactured head die is moving when the squeezing process is initiated making it more difficult in my opinion to stay aligned properly to the head. Are the squeezers designed to use the dies in only one position? I had an issue on a couple of rivets where I slipped on the head and put a smile in the manufactured head. Had to drill these out which was no fun.
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Rivet Squeezer - Set Positions
- Thread starter hjd3021
- Start date
David Paule
Well Known Member
It varies
....Depending upon the geometry of the particular parts. And whether you think there's any chance you'll ever need to drill out that rivet.
Dave
....Depending upon the geometry of the particular parts. And whether you think there's any chance you'll ever need to drill out that rivet.
Dave
From your description, it sounds like you are using a pneumatic squeezer, although you don't say so. It won't work well at all to have the manufacturer head die on the moving ram, you will have a lot of trouble with bad rivets since it is nearly impossible to hit the head perfectly with the moving die. In order to get the squeezer firmly on the manufactured head in difficult positions you will probably need to get a couple more yokes, like a longeron yoke for example.
The 12 is designed to be built with a hand squeezer and you can place the dies in any position you need to on those. But, I had a lot of trouble getting enough pressure with the Avery squeezer to squeezer the 1/8" rivets. So I bought a pneumatic squeezer with a longeron yoke. You can switch the yokes between the two types of squeezers. I found that since I have the pneumatic for the larger rivets, I prefer the Avery hand squeezer to the famed Cleaveland Main Squeeze. The reason is that the handles on the Main Squeeze open much wider (that is how it gets the secret extra force) but I find that to be rather awkward especially when working on the small rivets on nutplates. With the Avery you can hold the squeezer in one hand and actually start squeezing while holding the work in the other hand. You can't do that with a Main Squeeze unless maybe you can pick up a basketball one handed. I have tried them both. The Main Squeeze would be the tool of choice if you were going to buy just one squeezer because it can handle those 1/8" rivets with relative ease.
A pneumatic and an Avery are a great combination of squeezers.
Just my opinions and experience
, I am sure you have read many posts about squeezers in your initial research.
Tony
The 12 is designed to be built with a hand squeezer and you can place the dies in any position you need to on those. But, I had a lot of trouble getting enough pressure with the Avery squeezer to squeezer the 1/8" rivets. So I bought a pneumatic squeezer with a longeron yoke. You can switch the yokes between the two types of squeezers. I found that since I have the pneumatic for the larger rivets, I prefer the Avery hand squeezer to the famed Cleaveland Main Squeeze. The reason is that the handles on the Main Squeeze open much wider (that is how it gets the secret extra force) but I find that to be rather awkward especially when working on the small rivets on nutplates. With the Avery you can hold the squeezer in one hand and actually start squeezing while holding the work in the other hand. You can't do that with a Main Squeeze unless maybe you can pick up a basketball one handed. I have tried them both. The Main Squeeze would be the tool of choice if you were going to buy just one squeezer because it can handle those 1/8" rivets with relative ease.
A pneumatic and an Avery are a great combination of squeezers.
Just my opinions and experience
, I am sure you have read many posts about squeezers in your initial research.Tony
Thanks Tony. I do have an ATS pneumatic squeezer but assumed as you indicate that it would not be suitable to have the manufactured head die on the moving ram. I have had great success with it when I can use it. I think the longeron yolk would be very helpful as you suggest now that I look at it in either the pneumatic or hand squeezer. I now have one on order. I have an ATS SUPER DUTY RIVET SQUEEZER as well as a Cleaveland main squeeze. I have to admit that I am a tool fanatic and always look for the best tool for the job. The Cleaveland squeezer works well but I have the same issue as you with the handles opening so wide. I either have to use one handle against my body or table to make it work. The ATS squeezer works well but I have had some recent issues with it on the 1/8 rivets. I am learning a lot both from you experts with the experience here on the forum and with actually doing the work. Thanks to you and the others for help
I also have the ATS hand squeezer that came with my tool kit, and have found it quite easy to use, although the larger rivets definitely take a two-handed effort. The smaller rivets are easy. The key is to set the gap right so that the handles are fully closed when the rivet is correctly set. The other trick is to make sure you squeeze the ends of the handles and not just somewhere near the end. That small amount of extra leverage makes a lot of difference. However, as you have already have various sqeezers, this will probably not be new information. It also helps to be standing comfortably when riveting. Most of my bad rivets happen if I have to lean over in an uncomfortable position to use the riveter in some awkward location.
Contact, then squeeze
I only use an air squeezer (from Ishams)
I am certainly not a 'pro' riveter but I always try to bring the dies into contact with both ends of the rivet before applying setting pressure. That way, I don't 'hit' the rivet and it makes very little practical difference which side is moving. It gives me a final chance to check that I am square to the work with the flat die centered on the tail of the rivet that will become the shop head.
The only difference is that, if the cupped die is on the moving ram, the entire tool will move back towards me as I close the dies on the rivet and then slightly more as the rivet sets. I need to maintain alignment as it moves. With the cupped die in the yoke the tool stays stationary as the ram closes on the rivet and then compresses the tail.
Most badly set rivets (and I have had lots of them) happen when I overcook the trigger action and let the dies 'hit' the rivet and go on to set it in the same action.
I don't have a hand squeezer and it has taken some time to get the feel of my air squeezer so that I can repeatably close the dies on the rivet without any significant squeezing. It is not the most ergonomic of tools, with the trigger design being one of the worst aspects.
I only use an air squeezer (from Ishams)
I am certainly not a 'pro' riveter but I always try to bring the dies into contact with both ends of the rivet before applying setting pressure. That way, I don't 'hit' the rivet and it makes very little practical difference which side is moving. It gives me a final chance to check that I am square to the work with the flat die centered on the tail of the rivet that will become the shop head.
The only difference is that, if the cupped die is on the moving ram, the entire tool will move back towards me as I close the dies on the rivet and then slightly more as the rivet sets. I need to maintain alignment as it moves. With the cupped die in the yoke the tool stays stationary as the ram closes on the rivet and then compresses the tail.
Most badly set rivets (and I have had lots of them) happen when I overcook the trigger action and let the dies 'hit' the rivet and go on to set it in the same action.
I don't have a hand squeezer and it has taken some time to get the feel of my air squeezer so that I can repeatably close the dies on the rivet without any significant squeezing. It is not the most ergonomic of tools, with the trigger design being one of the worst aspects.
agirard7a
Well Known Member
Adjustable?
I have a pneumatic squeezer. I use to have a hand
Squeezer and now never use it. I also have many
different length dies that I needed before I bought an
Adjustable ram from Avery. Now only use one set of dies and adjust
accordingly. Way worth the money.
As far as the placement of the cupped die,
It doesn't matter as long as the cupped die is placed
on the manuf. head. As another previous post
suggested.
If your a tool guy, your best investment is sell
your hand squeezer and buy 3 yokes. Longeron,
3" standard and a no hole for tight area. You will use
all three guarenteed.
I have a pneumatic squeezer. I use to have a hand
Squeezer and now never use it. I also have many
different length dies that I needed before I bought an
Adjustable ram from Avery. Now only use one set of dies and adjust
accordingly. Way worth the money.
As far as the placement of the cupped die,
It doesn't matter as long as the cupped die is placed
on the manuf. head. As another previous post
suggested.
If your a tool guy, your best investment is sell
your hand squeezer and buy 3 yokes. Longeron,
3" standard and a no hole for tight area. You will use
all three guarenteed.
You can build the entire RV-12 with just a 3 inch yoke. It is designed for that. Yokes are expensive. If you search this forum you will find that the Cleaveland MAIN SQUEEZE is heavily favored for a manual squeezer. And with good reason - I did my whole plane with it and highly recommend! Rather than invest in a pneumatic squeezer right off the bat (unless you have significant physical concerns or maybe something like carpel tunnel) I recommend starting out and doing the tail kit with the Main Squeeze. You will encounter all of the situations there, particularly on the aftmost tail bulkhead. Then you can decide if you need a pneumatioc squeezer for the rest of the build.
