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Removing the wings...argh.

ChiefPilot

ChiefPilot

Well Known Member
It appears there is a chance I won't be able to fly out of the airport where I am working on my -6A (see http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=50086 for details) and unfortunately I already have the wings installed - including the splice plates and close tolerance bolts.

The bolts were a pain to get in, I suspect they will be a pain to remove as well based on that along with the stories found searching the archives here. I'm more concerned about the potential damage from doing so - I am sure I'll need to hammer/drive/etc. the bolts out somehow as they were an interference fit going in. I'm concerned that there will be spalling inside the holes of the aluminum spar when the bolts come back out - is this a reasonable concern?

Thanks!
 
Hi Brad...

Would it not be easier to first speak with the DAR you intend to use? Make some phone calls and determine if you will, in fact, not be allowed to do a first flight.

The best,
 
pierre smith said:
Would it not be easier to first speak with the DAR you intend to use? Make some phone calls and determine if you will, in fact, not be allowed to do a first flight.

The best,
Click to expand...

Hi Pierre,

The issue is that if I could do the first flight today, then it is no problem. However, I anticipate that I am perhaps a year or maybe a little less away from that date. Tim Mahoney, the DAR in question, states that he would not be at all surprised to see that changed to "no first flights, period" in the near future. Until I know for sure, I don't plan on changing my plans, but depending on the level of risk of damage to pulling the wings I'm going to complain a bit louder. I'm hoping (perhaps naively) that pointing out that such a change carries a risk of airframe damage will have some significance but I need to verify my facts first.

What do you think?
 
I would be tempted to drop the engine and tail feathers off and see if you could get it on a trailer sideways..You can have up to a 16ft 'wide" load (at least in oregon) and see if you could do it that way..Maybe travel in the middle of the night to keep away from the idiots in tin cans.

Frank
 
Of course, there's always the possibility that you finish the plane and, before calling the DAR, you pick a really nice day for a first flight and just happen to let it get away from you during a high-speed taxi test. :D

So, after getting a feel for it, you just happen to then land at another airport where first flights aren't an issue.

And you just happen to THEN call the DAR for an inspection.

Just a thought ... :D
 
ChiefPilot said:
The bolts were a pain to get in, I suspect they will be a pain to remove as well based on that along with the stories found searching the archives here. I'm more concerned about the potential damage from doing so ... I'm concerned that there will be spalling inside the holes of the aluminum spar when the bolts come back out - is this a reasonable concern?
Click to expand...

In my experience that is not a concern. I used a brass insert in my rivet gun to ease the bolts out and left those supporting the gear towers until last. Once the wings are out either don't roll it around on the gear or make up some wooden false spars and re-insert some bolts (the lower brace flexes and dents the bottom skin).

Pete
 
To help with the bolt removal...

...(as well as the bolt insertion), use some large clamps and locate then next to the bolt that is to be removed. This will keep all of the spar flange strips and the splice plates compressed so that they do not spread apart and jam the bolt. Placing clamps on either side of the target bolt works best.

A selection of large "C" clamps and flat tip / swivel Vice Grips works well for this task.
 
How about a grandfather clause? Definitely not cool to change the rules mid-stream for you all who are already there? Stranger things have happened... -Jim
 
Had to remove mine.

They were totally installed & torqued in my garage. It's also an RV6A. I live next to the airport, and figured I could talk someone into a midnight transfer. I could have swiveled it out of the garage on casters.

Then I found out that I couldn't get the nut plates installed for the wing to fuselage intersection fairing. So off they came. This time, I waited until they were painted and just hauled them to the airport in the back of a pickup.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
It is difficult but not damagingly so

I took mine off so my wife could get her car in the garage after I completed the rigging installation. Admitingly that is a more serious motivator than the FAA/DAR etc. but once you decide you have to do it to reach the finish line you just do it. Drift pins, mallets etc. work well and I found it easier to get them out than in - everything is already perfectly aligned. The 6A is the hardest but then it's the best.

Bob Axsom
 
False Spars

I have a set of these False spars that allow for the main gear mounts (and maingear) to remain on and carry the load like they're supposed to. Also allows for the steel carry-through plates to be used for alignment.

They stick out just enough to allow two strong people to carry it around - as long as the engne and gearlegs are off.

They've been used by a number of other builders (other than me first).
 
I definitely recommend using an air ratchet for both removal and insertion. Before insertion, we froze my bolts and lubed, which I believe helped. In my case, insertion was much easier than the removal.
 
Thanks everyone for your responses - I feel a bit better about this knowing I'm probably not going to munge my spars should I actually have to pull them off! I'm hoping that we'll be able to secure a grandfather clause from the FSDO for all the builders at KSGS who are currently in this situation (there's a number of us, both RV and non-RV).

Thanks!
 
I went through this at KEMT. The DAR said the FAA wasn't allowing allowing any more first flights.

I ended up contacting the head of the FSDO directly. He stated I needed to come up with a flight proposal that would ensure I could safely carry out the flight. The result was like a college research paper: maps of the route, demonstrated climb profile of the aircraft type, alternate landing areas, population studies, schedules for the local elementary schools, etc.

It was a bunch of work, but I was willing to do almost anything rather than remove those wings on my 6A.

John Allen
 
Heard from a friend last night that the FAA MIDO person he's been working with said he couldn't use the airport where final assembly is occuring for phase I. However, he said that he could issue a ferry permit for the first flight to fly it to an appropriate airport. Not sure the term 'ferry' is completely accurate, but the point is he was willing to work with my friend for the first flight. Just another datapoint. -Jim
 
This thread -- and the other one -- just reinforces my idea that it would be a great EAA (or VAF) project to get a list of airports where first flights aren't being (or likely won't be) allowed.
 
Sometimes we bring the restrictions on ourselves

I read the post by John Allen that is based at EMT (EL Monte) with a new RV-6A. I used to fly in there every morning for 15 years on my commute to work at JPL. I heard about the incident that shut down EMT for phase 1 testing during that time. It involved a velocity or some such canard design. The sky was low overcast but legal VFR. The pilot took off and flew in the airport area for an something like an hour at low altitude loudly circling around the pattern. The area around EMT is very densely populated. Legal yes but the airport was shut down for that kind of activity after complaints about that incident. I retired in September of 2004 so this goes to show how permanent the restrictions caused by offensive operations can be.

Bob Axsom
 
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