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Rear spar doubler plates

Scott_F

Active Member
Getting ready to assemble the rear wing spars... should I drill and dimple the top flanges of the W-707E and W-707F doubler plates and the corresponding holes of the rear spar flange before I attach those pieces to the spar? Or should I wait until they're together and dimple or countersink those holes when I attach the skins? Looks like it should work either way, but is one way slightly better?

Thanks,
Scott
 
Order

Scottk,

Clamp. Drill. Dimple. Rivet. Unless you chamfer the female dimple die (or have a small diameter set), it will somewhat interfere with the inside radii of the doublers. You could countersink the doubler to accept a spar dimple, or countersink the assembly, but you can't dimple the assembly.

John Siebold
 
Scott-

Asked the same question of Van's myself - here is the question and their reply:

"Quick question before assembling the rear spar:

In the area where the W-707E and W-707F doublers sit, what is the preferred method for prepping the spar for the skin dimples? Should I dimple the flange on the doubler and on the spar and allow them to nest? Countersink the flange on the doubler to allow the dimple in the spar to nest? Dimple both pieces together after assembly? Or leave as is and countersink the rear spar in those areas only for the wing skin to sit flush?



Thomas,

You can dimple both the spar and the the doubler separately or
machine countersink the spar with the doubler in clecoed place to
guide the pilot of the countersink. Dimpling both together after
assembly will not get you a good dimple.


Bruce Reynolds
[email protected]"
 
I dimpled the doubler and spar before riveting them together. Those are the only holes in the spar I dimpled before mating the skins. It all turned out great. Note also--Van's recommends slightly reaming those dimpled holes on the spar before attaching the skins. An alternative method to accomplish the same thing without removing any material is to dimple the spar (and doubler plate in this case) with a tank dimple die. This will make the skin dimple fit nice and flush into the (slightly) deeper spar dimple.

Good luck.
 
Thanks all. I'll probably dimple all the pieces before I put them together. Turns out I gooned one of the end doublers anyway - I countersank the four holes on the end of the doubler, but I was looking at the rivet diagram in detail A on drawing 10 A and also countersank the bottom hole of the line that gets the aileron hinge bracket. It's a 426 rivet, but I think that countersink was supposed to go in the hinge bracket, not the doubler.

-Scott
 
Scott, I know you didn't ask about these holes, and you might already know this, but be sure to also dimple the holes in the spar flange above 707D & 707G. I forgot to do this before I started riveting, and I had to drill out 10-15 rivets in order to get the dimple die in there. Thank goodness I caught it fairly soon and that I had just purchased a rivet removal tool.

Good Luck!
 
AN426AD3-4 rivets specified

Running into this issue today, I thought that given the difference in thickness of a dimpled v's countersunk 3 layer sandwich, that ultimately the optimum method would be defined by whatever rivet Van's specifies for this application. According to the plans, it is an AN426AD3-4 rivet. I created a test sample out of two layers of 0.040" sheet to represent the spar and doubler webs, and a top layer of 0.025" to represent the skin. I dimpled both holes on the skin layer, then on the middle layer (the spar) I countersunk one and the other I dimpled. On the bottom later (the doubler) I dimpled one and left the other untouched. Note that I used a small diameter 3/32 female dimple and did not get any spar/stiffener deformation. Clamped tightly together and making sure I had countersunk far enough that the sandwich had no air gaps, I then measured the rivet length exposed, and from the base of the dimpled setup, there was 0.115" exposed. For the countersunk setup, there was 0.141" exposed. Given that a 3/32 rivet has a diameter of 0.093", this means that the optimum rivet length exposed is 1.395 (1.5x the diameter). Thus the -4 rivet length provided almost perfectly matches the countersunk setup. I squeezed both rivets until they met the 1.5x diameter required head diameter. For the countersunk rivet, it looks like perfect depth using the rivet gauge, and for the dimpled setup, it is just shy of being ideal according to the gauge, as one would expect. That said, it still looks like a well formed head, and given that I loath countersinking and that Van's has specified that either method is applicable, I think I will proceed with the dimpled head. I guess I could always use a -4.5 rivet in that location. Just as a final note, if you are going to be dimpling, be careful that the yoke doesn't scratch the spar or the doublers when you squeeze the dimple, because of the acute angle of the web in relation to the spar cap. I left a light scratch on the doubler because of this, so I buffed it out, then ground a small shoulder on the top of the yoke and shielded it from the surface it was rubbing against with some duct tape. Just keep an eye on it as the tape wears. Anyway, given that I've blown way too much time on this exercise (I guess we all suffer a little from OCD when it's your butt in that aircraft), I need to get back to driving rivets. I hope this better spells things out for fellow builders who way over think things.
Tom.
 
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