So I'm deburring and dimpling the skins, but my hole deburring tool doesn't quite fit the #40 holes. My solution has been to take a #42 bit and maneuver around the holes at a high speed. Anyone else have deburring tips (when left to your own devices)? Anyone completely against this method?
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Quick Deburring Question
- Thread starter GTechRV
- Start date
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
Which deburring tool do you have? The ones I have don't have a pilot. They are simple unpiloted countersinks.
I don't understand what you are doing with a #42 drill bit. All you should be doing when you deburr is remove the ridge that is sometimes left around a drilled hole. If you're gonna use a drill bit for that, you probably want to use a bit that is much larger than the hole. Say 3/16" or 1/4" at least, because you don't want to enlarge the hole - only remove the built-up ridge.
Are you drilling all of the holes to #40 (some say #41) prior to the process of deburring and dimpling?
I don't understand what you are doing with a #42 drill bit. All you should be doing when you deburr is remove the ridge that is sometimes left around a drilled hole. If you're gonna use a drill bit for that, you probably want to use a bit that is much larger than the hole. Say 3/16" or 1/4" at least, because you don't want to enlarge the hole - only remove the built-up ridge.
Are you drilling all of the holes to #40 (some say #41) prior to the process of deburring and dimpling?
sprucemoose
Well Known Member
Cogsdill Buraway
Dan,
Curious why you don't like them? I sprung for a couple for the new project, and have had decidedly mixed results with them.
And Ryan, the deburring tool doesn't have a pilot on it. The piloted ones are for machine countersinking thicked material. I think I can picture what you are doing with the drill, sort of like when you drill a hole in drywall and the hole is tool small, you just move the drill body around the hole to open it up a bit. If I'm picturing this right, than your technique is not quite right. Use the right size bit and the proper deburring tool.
Dan,
Curious why you don't like them? I sprung for a couple for the new project, and have had decidedly mixed results with them.
And Ryan, the deburring tool doesn't have a pilot on it. The piloted ones are for machine countersinking thicked material. I think I can picture what you are doing with the drill, sort of like when you drill a hole in drywall and the hole is tool small, you just move the drill body around the hole to open it up a bit. If I'm picturing this right, than your technique is not quite right. Use the right size bit and the proper deburring tool.
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Rick6a
Well Known Member
The easiest way to debur is by holding a 1/4" or 5/16" drill bit your hand and giving it a twist or two around the hole with your finger tips. A Dremel fitted a ball stone works well for accessing tight areas. You can debur an entire skin hole patttern very quickly with a die grinder fitted with a scotchbrite pad. Run your fingertips over the holes. If you don't feel a burr...the hole is probably fine. Like others, I am not a fan of Burraways. The tool wastes a lot of time because using it in a drill motor, you have to insert it into every hole, the shank can warp and sometimes the cutting blade gets stuck. We had all manner of Burraways available in the production environment and very few people actually used them for the reasons I mentioned....unless they wanted to waste time and look busy.
sprucemoose said:
Thats about it. Its effective for the inside of the hole, but its the hard edge that still needs to be removed. Seems like we don't have nearly the tools we need. I have this tool already, just no attachments that fit the #40 drilled holes. Bout time for another trip to spruce!
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You don't need to deburr the inside of the drilled holes - just remove any rough burrs (hence the term) around the outside after drilling.
I have the avery tool and the burraways but after using them all so far the best way to deburr (IMHO) is with a drill bit a few sizes larger. As mentioned above, a larger bit spun between the fingers (I think I use a 3/16 for #40 holes) with very light pressure will do the trick. I have a dedicated bit for deburring #40 holes - I wrapped a bunch of masking tape around the shaft so it is easy to grip and spin. You are not trying to remove metal from the skin or the hole - just remove the burrs that may be there.
Thomas
I have the avery tool and the burraways but after using them all so far the best way to deburr (IMHO) is with a drill bit a few sizes larger. As mentioned above, a larger bit spun between the fingers (I think I use a 3/16 for #40 holes) with very light pressure will do the trick. I have a dedicated bit for deburring #40 holes - I wrapped a bunch of masking tape around the shaft so it is easy to grip and spin. You are not trying to remove metal from the skin or the hole - just remove the burrs that may be there.
Thomas
David Clifford
Well Known Member
I found this neat driver tool at Costco for $19.99. Its 4 Volt lithiumn,,,then I superglued in a solid carbide 100* 1/4" 4 flute countersink I got from here http://www.jlindustrial.com/ for $4.99 on clearance. They have just about every metal working tool available and at great prices. I have a second set-up with an 8" extension I use for deburring the inside of ribs and flanges. The extension allows a mors straight on shot at the hole. Well worth the investment considering all these hole that need to be deburred. I have one of those hand speed cranks from an aviation tool store, but quickly discarded it in favor of the drivers.
sprucemoose
Well Known Member
Aha, problem found. The tool you have is for deburring the edge of sheets, not the inside of holes. The tool you need is this one:GTechRV said:
http://www.averytools.com/cart/p-73-speed-deburring-tool.aspx
Oh, that deburring tool! Almost useless, in my limited experience.
I have one also and the only kind of holes I have found it to be worth using on are larger holes, say 5/16" or so. And if you use on a straight edge, it chatters.
I use one similar to https://www.averytools.com/cart/pc-73-43-speed-deburring-tool.aspx and am very happy with it. As someone else said, use light pressure. About 180-360 degree rotation is usually enough. Too much pressure & you create another burr. Actually, my favorite is a single flute bit but Avery no longer carries them.
I disagree with the person who said you don't need to deburr the inside of holes. The drill pushes metal out the far as it breaks thru & puts a bigger burr there. You will notice that there is a more prominent burr on one side compared to the other. Regardless of which side the burr is left on, it seems to me that it will keep the rivet or the two pieces of metal from fully seating.
Richard Scott
RV-9A nearing the finish line on the wings
I have one also and the only kind of holes I have found it to be worth using on are larger holes, say 5/16" or so. And if you use on a straight edge, it chatters.
I use one similar to https://www.averytools.com/cart/pc-73-43-speed-deburring-tool.aspx and am very happy with it. As someone else said, use light pressure. About 180-360 degree rotation is usually enough. Too much pressure & you create another burr. Actually, my favorite is a single flute bit but Avery no longer carries them.
I disagree with the person who said you don't need to deburr the inside of holes. The drill pushes metal out the far as it breaks thru & puts a bigger burr there. You will notice that there is a more prominent burr on one side compared to the other. Regardless of which side the burr is left on, it seems to me that it will keep the rivet or the two pieces of metal from fully seating.
Richard Scott
RV-9A nearing the finish line on the wings
Ryan,
As you can tell from the responses, there are a lot of different ways to debur parts. I have a couple of the deburring tools that you showed, and I don't use them much, because they just don't have a good feel. Also, some of them have balls on the end that are too large for #40 holes. However, I did buy a set of deburring tools from Home Depot that are the same as the one you showed, but smaller. This was a 4-pack of tools, each meant for a different type of metal (plastic, aluminum, brass, steel). My favorite tool is the yellow one, which is meant for plastic, I think. This has a very small tip and just feels right. I use this tool all of the time. Best $15 that I spent so far (ok, maybe not the best, but certainly a good purchase).
However, for general deburring of drilled holes, my tool of choice is an electric screw driver with a #40 countersink bit attached., much like David showed. I bought a small drill chuck from Harbor Freight that has a hex bit on the end, which fits the electric screw driver. Actually, I have two electric screw drivers, so when the battery goes dead, I have a screw driver to use while the other charges. I have already worn out two batteries on one screw driver, and it is actually cheaper to buy a new screw driver than another battery pack.
I have used a larger drill in my finger tips, and there are situations, where this is the best way to go, like the inside holes on the rib flanges, where it is hard to get the electric screw driver into (note, I also have a flexible extention, which sometimes helps).
I do not have a burr-away, simply because they are too darn expensive. There are places where they would really be useful, but not for $30-$40.
For edge deburring I prefer the vixen file, followed by a smaller file, followed by maybe the hook deburring tool, followed by a Scotch Brite pad. Some guys just go straight to the Scotch Brite wheel, or the Scotch Brite pads, your choice. BTW, you will appreciate it if you do a good job of deburring when you are reaching into the wing as far as you can while holding a three pound bucking bar and trying to pound a rivet with the gun in your other hand. If you arm comes out bleeding, you didn't do a good enough job.
So, as you can see, there are a lot of ways to debur a hole and other parts. No single tool is best. Each requires the right tool for the job. Or, for some of us the ability to make the wrong tool do an adequate job.
Cheers,
Tracy.
As you can tell from the responses, there are a lot of different ways to debur parts. I have a couple of the deburring tools that you showed, and I don't use them much, because they just don't have a good feel. Also, some of them have balls on the end that are too large for #40 holes. However, I did buy a set of deburring tools from Home Depot that are the same as the one you showed, but smaller. This was a 4-pack of tools, each meant for a different type of metal (plastic, aluminum, brass, steel). My favorite tool is the yellow one, which is meant for plastic, I think. This has a very small tip and just feels right. I use this tool all of the time. Best $15 that I spent so far (ok, maybe not the best, but certainly a good purchase).
However, for general deburring of drilled holes, my tool of choice is an electric screw driver with a #40 countersink bit attached., much like David showed. I bought a small drill chuck from Harbor Freight that has a hex bit on the end, which fits the electric screw driver. Actually, I have two electric screw drivers, so when the battery goes dead, I have a screw driver to use while the other charges. I have already worn out two batteries on one screw driver, and it is actually cheaper to buy a new screw driver than another battery pack.
I have used a larger drill in my finger tips, and there are situations, where this is the best way to go, like the inside holes on the rib flanges, where it is hard to get the electric screw driver into (note, I also have a flexible extention, which sometimes helps).
I do not have a burr-away, simply because they are too darn expensive. There are places where they would really be useful, but not for $30-$40.
For edge deburring I prefer the vixen file, followed by a smaller file, followed by maybe the hook deburring tool, followed by a Scotch Brite pad. Some guys just go straight to the Scotch Brite wheel, or the Scotch Brite pads, your choice. BTW, you will appreciate it if you do a good job of deburring when you are reaching into the wing as far as you can while holding a three pound bucking bar and trying to pound a rivet with the gun in your other hand. If you arm comes out bleeding, you didn't do a good enough job.
So, as you can see, there are a lot of ways to debur a hole and other parts. No single tool is best. Each requires the right tool for the job. Or, for some of us the ability to make the wrong tool do an adequate job.
Cheers,
Tracy.
dpansier
Well Known Member
Cordless Screwdriver
The cordless screwdriver with a countersink has been one of the most useful tools on this project. A light touch for deburing or lean on it for countersinking a hole for a flush rivet.
Don
RV-7 Finish Kit
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/5534/dsc00305zd2.jpg
http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DB04
The cordless screwdriver with a countersink has been one of the most useful tools on this project. A light touch for deburing or lean on it for countersinking a hole for a flush rivet.
Don
RV-7 Finish Kit
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/5534/dsc00305zd2.jpg
http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DB04
RV7Factory
Chief Obfuscation Officer
I will second Dan's comments.dan said:
I bought a Burraway early in my project and used it for over a year with great success. I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and quickly bacame a big proponent of the device. That was until recently when I had a friend, who happens to be an A&P, helping deburr a few parts. I showed him how to use the tool and turned him loose but kept an eye on him. Later that day I was shocked to find that many of the holes that he had deburred were over-deburred (slightly countersunk) and a little rough. Ack! The problems weren't big enough to cause any major problems but I wasn't at all happy with the results. I don't know what he did differently (than I), or maybe the blade decided to go dull at that particular moment, but the bottom line I've stopped using it and I can't and don't recommend the burraway anymore.
Norman CYYJ
Well Known Member
Use what the pros use in the production shops, and aircraft factories. An oversize drill bit twisted with your fingers. No extra dollars spent on fancy tools.
rzbill
Well Known Member
Drill Bits
I like drill bits better than the multifluted "deburring" bits mostly because the included tip angle of the drill bit is usually 135 deg vs the 100 degrees (or 82
) on the pilotless countersink bits sold for deburring. For me, the flatter drill bit tip does not wedge in and enlarge the hole as the duburr bit can. I found that the burr left by Van's NC punching machine stands quite high (even after match drilling) and is hard to completely remove with a 100 degree tip without significant metal removal in the hole diameter itself. The 135 degree tip removes the burr with little hole disturbance at all. So, I have a roughly 1/4" dia threaded drill bit in my deburr handle. Works like a charm.
Also, I think each of the deburr tools has a place. I have a complete drawer of deburr devices. Some are used a lot. Some not. But all used at some time or another. Probably the same as everbody else.
I like drill bits better than the multifluted "deburring" bits mostly because the included tip angle of the drill bit is usually 135 deg vs the 100 degrees (or 82
) on the pilotless countersink bits sold for deburring. For me, the flatter drill bit tip does not wedge in and enlarge the hole as the duburr bit can. I found that the burr left by Van's NC punching machine stands quite high (even after match drilling) and is hard to completely remove with a 100 degree tip without significant metal removal in the hole diameter itself. The 135 degree tip removes the burr with little hole disturbance at all. So, I have a roughly 1/4" dia threaded drill bit in my deburr handle. Works like a charm.Also, I think each of the deburr tools has a place. I have a complete drawer of deburr devices. Some are used a lot. Some not. But all used at some time or another. Probably the same as everbody else.
William Slaughter
Well Known Member
Defending the Burraway
With improper technique it's possible to remove too much metal with just about any deburring device! I have both #40 and a #30 Burraways, and really like them. That said, I generally reserve them for spots where its difficult to impossible to get to the back side of the hole with other deburring devices. A specialized tool for special situations. For routine light deburring I use a regular pilotless 3 flute 100 deg tool in the offset handle manual device. If I have a lot of holes to do, I put the 3 flute cutter in a hex shank adapter and put it in the cordless screwdriver (light touch and low speed). If I have particularly high burrs, I knock them down with a small smooth cut file first. For me, the drill bits try to dig in too much. Obviously, there are lots of good ways to skin this cat. This topic may get to be like primer
With improper technique it's possible to remove too much metal with just about any deburring device! I have both #40 and a #30 Burraways, and really like them. That said, I generally reserve them for spots where its difficult to impossible to get to the back side of the hole with other deburring devices. A specialized tool for special situations. For routine light deburring I use a regular pilotless 3 flute 100 deg tool in the offset handle manual device. If I have a lot of holes to do, I put the 3 flute cutter in a hex shank adapter and put it in the cordless screwdriver (light touch and low speed). If I have particularly high burrs, I knock them down with a small smooth cut file first. For me, the drill bits try to dig in too much. Obviously, there are lots of good ways to skin this cat. This topic may get to be like primer
777Dave
Well Known Member
deburring
http://planetools.blogspot.com/2006/01/deburring-rivet-holes.html
Any comments on this blog? Sounds like its almost better to leave well enough alone on thin aluminum...
http://planetools.blogspot.com/2006/01/deburring-rivet-holes.html
Any comments on this blog? Sounds like its almost better to leave well enough alone on thin aluminum...
Since I am *obviously* without the experience to comment on that one, I won't, but it's an interesting theory. Just grabbed the quick deburring tool from avery and will probably do the "oversized drill bit" thing in the meantime to keep the project going.
I second and third the motion on the distaste for the multi-blade deburring tool. It chatters and leaves more burrs on a straight edge than it removes. The "hole" bits barely fit and seemed to remove more metal than seemed necessary. As for the edge of the skins (and rib flange edges), I found that a 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper (and a little elbow grease) work beautifully-even on some of the bigger burrs.
Thanks again you guys.
I second and third the motion on the distaste for the multi-blade deburring tool. It chatters and leaves more burrs on a straight edge than it removes. The "hole" bits barely fit and seemed to remove more metal than seemed necessary. As for the edge of the skins (and rib flange edges), I found that a 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper (and a little elbow grease) work beautifully-even on some of the bigger burrs.
Thanks again you guys.
Drill 3/32" but csk/dimple to #40 etc...
To get back to the original post of this thread, I ran into this dilemma also. The plans (RV-10) called for a 3/32" drill but then at csk/dimple/debur time, a #40 tool, i.e. burraway or csk with pilot, would not fit into hole. Answer, Van's confirms 3/32" and #40 interchangeable in so far as where csk/dimple/debur will be required, so just use #40 drill to start with, as 3/32" is slightly smaller. Ditto for 1/8" vs. #30.
To get back to the original post of this thread, I ran into this dilemma also. The plans (RV-10) called for a 3/32" drill but then at csk/dimple/debur time, a #40 tool, i.e. burraway or csk with pilot, would not fit into hole. Answer, Van's confirms 3/32" and #40 interchangeable in so far as where csk/dimple/debur will be required, so just use #40 drill to start with, as 3/32" is slightly smaller. Ditto for 1/8" vs. #30.
