Pushing my 7a into the hangar up an incline

[SwimmingDragonfly96]

Hey everyone,

I was always taught to push near the prop hub and that’s what I’ve been doing. I have a slight incline getting into my hangar so it requires a not insignificant amount of force, left hand on prop forward force, right hand on tow bar for steering. Last time I did it I felt a small click on the prop, and it felt a bit of a click, not a pop, and nothing I think is significant, but something I don’t want to repeat.

What do you guys do in these scenarios outside of getting a tug? Anything I can do to make sure I didn’t ruin anything?

Thanks,

Amir

 

[Mike6A]

Push

One hand on
towbat and the other pn thr top pf the air inlet

 

[jcarne]

I push on the cowl instead of the hub/prop. The click you heard was the crankshaft moving aft ever so slightly. You can feel it shift too. I don't think it is a big deal but I choose to avoid it.

 

[gasman]

Hey everyone,

I was always taught to push near the prop hub and that’s what I’ve been doing. I have a slight incline getting into my hangar so it requires a not insignificant amount of force, left hand on prop forward force, right hand on tow bar for steering. Last time I did it I felt a small click on the prop, and it felt a bit of a click, not a pop, and nothing I think is significant, but something I don’t want to repeat.

What do you guys do in these scenarios outside of getting a tug? Anything I can do to make sure I didn’t ruin anything?

Thanks,

Amir

You may have felt the play in the crank to bearing. That is normal.

If you are going to push on the prop, use both hands and right at the spinner edge.

 

[swjohnsey]

Yep, the endplay of the crankshaft. When the engine is running the prop is pulling forward against the thrust bearing. When you push on the prop you are pushing it backwards. There is a few thousandths of play. Pushing on a fixed pitch prop is O.K. On a constant speed, not O.K. Have you thought about rigging a block tackle to hook onto the tail tie down to pull it back into the hangar.

 

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

I've got the same problem, so I taxi into the hangar, just enough to get the main wheels over the lip. I've had a lot -- a lot -- of practice doing this, but when I started, I aligned to the very center of the hangar so I didn't have to worry about hitting a wingtip. Pushing back is not a problem, as long as I don't go fast enough to let the nosewheel diverge to one side or the other.

 

[Ralph Inkster]

I've got the same problem, so I taxi into the hangar, just enough to get the main wheels over the lip. I've had a lot -- a lot -- of practice doing this, but when I started, I aligned to the very center of the hangar so I didn't have to worry about hitting a wingtip. Pushing back is not a problem, as long as I don't go fast enough to let the nosewheel diverge to one side or the other.

Caution, not a great idea for any hangar... I witnessed a Lancair ES taxi into his hangar & all the insulation on the door panel got sucked down into the prop... not pretty.

 

[MacCool]

I had the same problem of uphill push over lip to get back in the hangar, plus the added issue of moving the plane in and out over an ice ridge, and occasional glare ice. I tried numerous "short cuts" including a couple of attempts at building one and finally bit the bullet and bought a tug. Turned out to be one of my better aviation-related decisions. I bought it from Best Tugs and it is an extremely well designed and well constructed device. Absolutely no regrets, I would've saved myself a lot of frustration, including the frustration of trying to build one, if I had just done it earlier.


..

 

[Tankerpilot75]

I had the same problem of uphill push over lip to get back in the hangar, plus the added issue of moving the plane in and out over an ice ridge, and occasional glare ice. I tried numerous "short cuts" and finally bit the bullet and bought a tug. Turned to be one of my better aviation-related decisions.

..

Thankfully I don’t have an incline to deal with but my cost accounting perspective tells me if I did I would be $ ahead using a tug than paying for an engine or prop repair issue.

 

[SwimmingDragonfly96]

Yep, the endplay of the crankshaft. When the engine is running the prop is pulling forward against the thrust bearing. When you push on the prop you are pushing it backwards. There is a few thousandths of play. Pushing on a fixed pitch prop is O.K. On a constant speed, not O.K. Have you thought about rigging a block tackle to hook onto the tail tie down to pull it back into the hangar.

I do indeed have a CS prop. Guess I’ll be investing in a tug

 

[StuBob]

The sooner you buy a tug, the sooner you’ll say “I should’ve done this before.”

They’re all crazy expensive though. It would be cheaper to buy a used lawn tractor or 4-wheeler and rig up a tow bar to it. If you have a truck, you could even put a hitch on the front of that, making you cooler than the neighbors.

There’s no disgrace in using a powered tug to move an airplane, even if it only weighs 1200# semi-empty.

 

[Bsquared]

I built my own tug for about $400. Everything except the steel tubing came from Amazon. Look on YouTube for some examples.

 

[jmbrwn]

I had a similar issue at a previous hangar I was at. Used a cheap electric winch from Harbor Freight and mounted to inside of hangar. Attach end of cable to tail tie down or T/W and pull in.

 

[drill_and_buck]

Doesn't DanH owe us an article on the design and build of his one-handed, joystick-driven electric tug?

 

[MacCool]

I had a similar issue at a previous hangar I was at. Used a cheap electric winch from Harbor Freight and mounted to inside of hangar. Attach end of cable to tail tie down or T/W and pull in.

I tried that, but was strongly cautioned from multiple sources that the tail tiedown on a tricycle gear is designed for vertical loads not horizontal loads. I abandoned that concept for fear of doing serious damage. Instead, I extended my Bogert tow bar so that I could mount it on the backside of my front nose gear wheel. My reasoning was that pulling thus would steer the plane along the axis of winch pull. This turned out to be one of those ideas that looked a lot better on paper than in practice and was the straw that drew me to Best Tugs.

 

[MED]

Nothing against Best Tugs, but an alternative is a Power Tow gas powered tug. You can find them for $500 used and they run just fine on avgas.

 

[MacCool]

Nothing against Best Tugs, but an alternative is a Power Tow gas powered tug. You can find them for $500 used and they run just fine on avgas.

Lots of options for getting our airplanes in and out of our hangars, including pushing/pulling...a lot of them detailed in various threads here on VAF. We all just have to find the one that meets our expectations.

 

[graywoodworking]

Best Tug

I bought a Best Tug last year for the same reason. It was expensive, but I have never regretted it.

 

[David Paule]

Even more expensive, but very, very nice, is a remote tug from acairtechnology.com. I have one for my C180 since my hangar as about a 1" entry lip.

It was one of my better decisions.

I can walk a wingtip, for example, while moving the plane.

Dave

 

[riobison]

I tried that, but was strongly cautioned from multiple sources that the tail tiedown on a tricycle gear is designed for vertical loads not horizontal loads. I abandoned that concept for fear of doing serious damage. Instead, I extended my Bogert tow bar so that I could mount it on the backside of my front nose gear wheel. My reasoning was that pulling thus would steer the plane along the axis of winch pull. This turned out to be one of those ideas that looked a lot better on paper than in practice and was the straw that drew me to Best Tugs.

I agree the tie down ring on the tail isn't designed for it.

I've gone from a RV4 that was easy and now into a RV9A and in the winter it will be a pain and probably next to impossible.

I was thinking of doing the same as you did and reversing my tow bar and pulling, I gather that idea didn't work that well?

Thanks
Tim

 

[MacCool]

I agree the tie down ring on the tail isn't designed for it.

I've gone from a RV4 that was easy and now into a RV9A and in the winter it will be a pain and probably next to impossible.

I was thinking of doing the same as you did and reversing my tow bar and pulling, I gather that idea didn't work that well?

Thanks
Tim

The nose gear still tended to wander. Not too far off, but far enough that it became a nuisance, not to mention the fact that it didn't help me get the OUT of the hangar in winter. The Alpha 2 tug, however, worked great from Day 1. A problem here in Minnesota is snow melt dripping off the roof of the hangar on a sunny day and building an ice ridge and glare ice in front of it. That's made worse by the snow plow which has to leave a 2-foot strip of snow to avoid hitting the hangar door. Tug traction is the resultant problem. Mark Patey at Best Tugs recommended driving hex-head self-tapping screws into the tires (they're solid rubber). Absolutely no issue after doing that.

I thought my winch/extended tow bar idea was brilliant, but it turned out to be just another kludge to avoid spending money on a properly designed device. That tug really does work very, very well.

 

[DRMA]

Be Careful in Buying Older Gas Powered Tugs

Nothing against Best Tugs, but an alternative is a Power Tow gas powered tug. You can find them for $500 used and they run just fine on avgas.

Be careful in buying older gas powered tugs. I made the mistake of buying one with a Tecumseh engine. The issue is that Tecumseh had gone out of business and parts are very difficult to find. I took it to a small engine shop, and was told they can't get carbs, fuel tanks, etc. So mine sits in the hanger unusable.

If the tug is newer, it will likely have a Briggs & Stratton engine, and so parts and repairs are readily available. So if looking for a low cost used solution, be careful of the engine brand.

Hope this warning helps someone else

 

[MacCool]

Be careful in buying older gas powered tugs. I made the mistake of buying one with a Tecumseh engine. The issue is that Tecumseh had gone out of business and parts are very difficult to find. I took it to a small engine shop, and was told they can't get carbs, fuel tanks, etc. So mine sits in the hanger unusable.

If the tug is newer, it will likely have a Briggs & Stratton engine, and so parts and repairs are readily available. So if looking for a low cost used solution, be careful of the engine brand.

Hope this warning helps someone else

There are a lot of 3-5 hp horizontal shaft motors all over the internet, anywhere from $100 at Harbor Freight to $350 for a B&S. Just sayin' ....might not be that hard or expensive to re-engine your tug.

 

[wirejock]

Tecumseh

There are a lot of 3-5 hp horizontal shaft motors all over the internet, anywhere from $100 at Harbor Freight to $350 for a B&S. Just sayin' ....might not be that hard or expensive to re-engine your tug.

Lots of aftermarket. I have a two stage snow blower with a big Tecumseh. I have found parts on Amazon. I just replaced the starter. It's not branded Tecumseh but it works. Just sayin.
I'm looking for a busted 40V Ryobi lawnmower so I can convert it to a Tug.

 

[riobison]

I tried the lawnmower trick and it didn't work. My floor is too slick and it couldn't get any traction. I have a 5" to 6" rise over 5 feet, not a lot but enough to be dangerous. Now that was pulling my RV 4 in tail first. Maybe to push on the asphalt the RV9 is doable. The screws as studs are a good idea from the end of Oct to at least April in this part of the country.

Tim

 

[MacCool]

I tried the lawnmower trick and it didn't work. My floor is too slick and it couldn't get any traction. I have a 5" to 6" rise over 5 feet, not a lot but enough to be dangerous. Now that was pulling my RV 4 in tail first. Maybe to push on the asphalt the RV9 is doable. The screws as studs are a good idea from the end of Oct to at least April in this part of the country.

Tim

I thought I'd pull those studs when winter was done, but I didn't and it pulls/pushes just fine. The traction remains good on the asphalt of my hangar and apron (I might have had to do that if the floor was smoother). That particular tug is very well-designed for levering down pressure on the drive wheels. The clamping arms and attachment point is very robust. The other thing that aids in low-traction situations is the programming of motor engagement. Very soft and easy to modulate so no loss of traction, and presumably easier on the nose gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFlrPqXEkpI


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[Tooch]

hoist

I had the same issue when I had a Grumman. I also used a Harbor Freight hoist. As with the RV, it was not advisable to tow from the rear tie down. So a friend made me a rope with loops on both ends to attach to the steps. I then ran the rope through the pully that comes with the hoist. I then extended the wire that is connected to the controller so I can be at the front with the tow bar to steer as I backed it into the hangar. Worked great. I have the rope if you want it. Don't need it for my current situation. just pay to ship.

 

[Pilot135pd]

I used a winch to pull it in but it takes forever then you still have to find a way to pull it out. With the RV8 it was easy since it's so light but with heavier planes I've been using a golf cart for years and after you get the hang of it. Pushing the plane backwards is not hard but takes tons of patience, something that diminishes with age.

Of course I'm still looking for something easier so I'm finishing an electric tug build to see how that works. If not then I'll bite the bullet and buy one of these because I've seen it climb a 5' slope ON GRASS pulling my almost 3000lb plane and was very impressed !!

https://acairtechnology.com/products/ac-tracktech-t-mini-non-wheel-fairing-economy-model