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Propeller questions

R

rvbldr3170

Active Member
Ok,I know this subject has been beaten to death, but here goes anyway.
I just bought a high compression (9to1) O360 for my RV-4. I am thinking of using a Prince or Catto F/P prop.
I know the Catto seems to be the prop of choice these days, but how about the Prince. It is similar in construction to the Catto, but with a shorter lead time (15 weeks). What Prince recommends is a 68/79 Carbon Fiber P-tip. It seems a tad underpitched for this engine/airframe combo, but I am not sure.I am nowhere close to flying yet, but I am going to spend a lot of research into the prop, so I don't have to do it again after I fly the airplane for awhile.
Do we have anyone flying a f/p Prince with a higher HP engine in a -4?
3 areas I would like to know about.
Speed (at specific RPM)
Smoothness
Rain Erosion Resistance
 
FWIW, I talked to Craig Catto last week and he said they just finished their expansion and that has allowed them to double production rates. They are now building one prop a day. He said production will increase again in a few weeks.

And most of their production is going into RV-9's & 9A's.
 
RScott said:
FWIW, I talked to Craig Catto last week and he said they just finished their expansion and that has allowed them to double production rates. They are now building one prop a day. He said production will increase again in a few weeks.

And most of their production is going into RV-9's & 9A's.
Click to expand...

What is the lead time on a prop from Catto now?
 
rvbldr3170 said:
Ok,I know this subject has been beaten to death, but here goes anyway.
I just bought a high compression (9to1) O360 for my RV-4. I am thinking of using a Prince or Catto F/P prop.
I know the Catto seems to be the prop of choice these days, but how about the Prince. It is similar in construction to the Catto, but with a shorter lead time (15 weeks). What Prince recommends is a 68/79 Carbon Fiber P-tip. It seems a tad underpitched for this engine/airframe combo, but I am not sure.I am nowhere close to flying yet, but I am going to spend a lot of research into the prop, so I don't have to do it again after I fly the airplane for awhile.
Do we have anyone flying a f/p Prince with a higher HP engine in a -4?
3 areas I would like to know about.
Speed (at specific RPM)
Smoothness
Rain Erosion Resistance
Click to expand...

The next time you or any of your friends are at Oshgosh walk the line and count the number of Prince P Tip props. There is a reason none of the high performance aiplanes use them.
tm
 
I run a prince 68-73 on a rv-6 with an xp-360 plus. static RPM 2340 ROC solo 1/2 fuel OAT 75 110MPH maintained from 500 -4500 MSL RPM 2350 ROC 2525 FPM. 210 mph level 2750 RPM.other rv pilots that fly in my rv comment on smoothness. Very happy with prince.
 
Not Much Difference

See my earlier post on this subject. I've tried both on the same airplane - my 7A.
  • I can't make a complete comparison because I never got the Prince re-pitched so they were never equal in pitch. The Prince maxed out at about 2800 rpm. The Catto was going even higher until Craig re-pitched it for me.
  • The Prince does flex in the advantageous way so that you get 100-200 fewer RPM's difference between climb and cruise. That could give you better climb. However,
  • The three blade Catto climbs better than the 2 blade Prince for a given rpm. That may or may not reflect on the prop or on the number of blades. But the Catto now gives only about 2150-2200 on climb-out, thus losing HP to the Prince.
  • They are both quite smooth.
  • The Prince is shorter because some of the effective blade length is in the curved tip. Conversely, you could get longer equivalent blades for the same diameter and that might improve climb performance.
  • The 2 blade Prince is about 2 pounds lighter and a little thinner at the base.
  • I'm doing a true GPS 3-way 175 kts at above 8000 DA with the Catto at 2650 rpm. I never got a completely comparable test on the Prince. See my website for aircraft details.
  • I have flown the Prince in light rain and there was some minor erosion so I'd recommend not doing it. I haven't done that to the Catto yet. I think if you want to fly in rain you should tape the leading edges.
  • On my A model, the three blade prop makes removing the lower cowl and replacing it much harder.
  • Both prop makers have aircraft using their props which have performed very well in racing. Ask them both. This is a tough area for comparing because racing aircraft are so unique.
  • Since I now have the Catto pitched correctly for my preferences (cruise) I will either get the Prince repitched, too or I will sell it. I'm undecided. For now, I'm flying the Catto.
  • I have found both prop makers excellent to work with and their products top notch. However, my experience with Craig (before his expansion) is that he doesn't make his self determined delivery dates - not even close. Plan around that is what I'm saying.
 
I just received my 3 blade Catto two weeks ago. It had been on order since February 22, 2007. In all fairness, I told Craig I wasn't going to need it until April 2008 and that is when it was delivered. The prop is a thing of beauty. White with the swooshes on the tips painted with my kandy apple red and kandy teal colors. And, he promised me it would be 3 knots faster than my hangar mates RV-7 :D
 
Prince Performance

tin man said:
hevansrv7a

What racer is using a Prince P Tip and doing vey well?
tm
Click to expand...

I pay no attention to racing or special aircraft with respect to my own, but here you go..

http://www.princeaircraft.com/CustomerComments.aspx - just two..

This propeller won "Hi Points" champion again for the 2000 race season.
-- D. Kilbourne
VariEze Cont. 0-200 Carlsbad, CA

As a faithful user of your propeller which was fundamental in establishing records in my flights around the world, I have been using your propellers with great confidence for many years now and the very efficient last one allowed me to establish several new records with the FAI. Millions will be able to see PP ZAD all over Europe and in the States and all inquiring will be explained how I can fly for so many hours non-stop, and they will be shown the "P-Tips".
-- A. Deberdt
LongEze O-235 San Paulo, Brazil​

​
 
Catto delivery

I just recieved my 3 blade Catto exactly when Craig said I would recieve it.

Very good service and the prop is beautiful.

Note that you should compare two blade Catto to two blade Prince. Catto two blade delivery is much quicker than the three blade. I expect that with the expansion, make your decision on which prop you want rather have regardless of delivery, as I think he has just spent a bunch of capitol to resolve delivery issues.

Sounds like you can't go wrong eiher way.
 
Another Idea...

Having been Craig Catto's first RV customer, I can attest to the high quality of his product. My 2 blade Catto on my 150HP RV4 could hang with many higher HP RV's. I also tried 8 other props, one of which was the Gary Hertzler composite. When I went to a higher HP 0-320, I bolted Gary's prop on my RV4 with great results. The only other prop I tried with the higher HP was the MT which also matched or exceeded the Catto and has a SS leading edge. Gary is a limited production home shop prop maker specializing in Long-EZ's but he made myself and 3 other RV guys props. Gary's props are works of art and perform amazingly well, better than anything else I tried, and easily match or exceed the Catto 2 blade. (which by the way outperforms his 3 blade hands down). I would also consider Paul Lipps elippse. Overall the Catto 2 blade would be my choice followed by gary's and the MT.

You can contact Gary at [email protected].

Rob Ray
HR2
 
Last edited:
smokyray said:
.... the Catto 2 blade. (which by the way outperforms his 3 blade hands down). I

You can contact Gary at [email protected].

Rob Ray
HR2
Click to expand...

Hi Rob,

I've discussed 2 blade vs. 3 blade with Craig at length before making my decision to go 3 blade. Craig states that it was true that early 2 blade props outperformed 3 blade props, but comparisons between new 2 and 3 blade props show that they are equal in performance except that the 3 blade is much smoother. I trust his opinion. He also claims that both variants of his new props are much faster than his older ones.

I'll let you know first hand soon as I expect to test fly in a couple of weeks.

Regards,
 
U Da Man...

Way cool Dale, can't wait to hear how it works. BTW, flew up to my Dad's to put a couple of hours on his RV5 (RV4 wings and tail, RV6 fuselage) With 0-320 8.5:1, Ellison TBI and MT FP prop, rough fairings and no paint it would show 169 knots indicated full throttle, cruises easily at 150-160 knots. Woo hoo! Can't wait till yours is done!

Smokey
 
smokyray said:
Way cool Dale, can't wait to hear how it works. BTW, flew up to my Dad's to put a couple of hours on his RV5 (RV4 wings and tail, RV6 fuselage) With 0-320 8.5:1, Ellison TBI and MT FP prop, rough fairings and no paint it would show 169 knots indicated full throttle, cruises easily at 150-160 knots. Woo hoo! Can't wait till yours is done!

Smokey
Click to expand...

I can't wait either. Already losing a bit of sleep in anticipation of the test flight. Not really worried, but pretty excited about it.

You can bet once it is running I won't miss another swamp function!

Talk to you soon,

Dale
 
whifof100ll said:
Hi Rob,

I've discussed 2 blade vs. 3 blade with Craig at length before making my decision to go 3 blade. Craig states that it was true that early 2 blade props outperformed 3 blade props, but comparisons between new 2 and 3 blade props show that they are equal in performance except that the 3 blade is much smoother. I trust his opinion. He also claims that both variants of his new props are much faster than his older ones.

I'll let you know first hand soon as I expect to test fly in a couple of weeks.

Regards,
Click to expand...

LOL
Did you expect him to say anything else? Catto makes a great prop, you can't go wrong with either prop. If you have ground clearance issues or a BAM that needs more blade area then go the 3 blade, wanna go fast and climb fast go the 2 blade. Performances differences between the two are probably not measureable by us mere mortals. I've tested both for Craig way back when, I chose the 2 blade. BTW Smokey, Craig told me I was the first. :)
Tin Man
 
tin man said:
LOL
Did you expect him to say anything else? Catto makes a great prop, you can't go wrong with either prop. If you have ground clearance issues or a BAM that needs more blade area then go the 3 blade, wanna go fast and climb fast go the 2 blade. Performances differences between the two are probably not measureable by us mere mortals. I've tested both for Craig way back when, I chose the 2 blade. BTW Smokey, Craig told me I was the first. :)
Tin Man
Click to expand...

I'd expect him to shoot me straight, which I'm sure is what he did. I wasn't asking him to compare his prop with a competitor, I was asking him to compare his prop to his prop. Given the delivery pressures he was under at the time, if he was going to "sell" me something for commercial reasons, I expect he would have put me onto the 2 blade prop since he can make those much quicker.

Again, he states that things have changed over time. What is your experience with what he is producing now?
 
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