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Proof of non-LCP's

S

stigaro

Well Known Member
I received my list of potential LCP's in my -14A fuselage the other day. I have one of the "potential LCP" red parts on my shelf still (idler arm). It is still wrapped in blue vinyl so is clearly punched. I can document this with a photograph. However, a couple other potential red LCP's have already been incorporated into my build. I am 100% certain that they were punched, but have no way to prove this as I did not take photos of the parts prior to working on them. My question going forward is how does one prove that their build does not contain LCP's? I am not going to risk damage to my build to replace these good parts with other good parts just for the sake of documenting the new parts.
 
stigaro said:
I received my list of potential LCP's in my -14A fuselage the other day. I have one of the "potential LCP" red parts on my shelf still (idler arm). It is still wrapped in blue vinyl so is clearly punched. I can document this with a photograph. However, a couple other potential red LCP's have already been incorporated into my build. I am 100% certain that they were punched, but have no way to prove this as I did not take photos of the parts prior to working on them. My question going forward is how does one prove that their build does not contain LCP's? I am not going to risk damage to my build to replace these good parts with other good parts just for the sake of documenting the new parts.
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I'm guessing you mean "prove" to a propective buyer, a DAR, an IA, the insurance company, or just a worried spouse. Impossible to prove or disprove, in my humble opinion, without pre-build pictues or disassembly.

UNLESS...you didn't bother to edge debur, and said edges are inspectable. If I recall correctly, punched edges have tiny occasional bumps and jigs in them, laser cut ones do not. Are there any parts that have punched edges but laser-cut holes? If so, my UNLESS goes out the window.
 
People are going to need a forensics lab to prove or disprove. Just like counterfeit chips in electronics it will not be easy to identify for or against. Something that will have to be lived with / accepted by anyone buying. If someone wanted to make it seem like there are no LCP when there are or the other way around I’m sure they would be successful. How would someone be able to prove them wrong short of disassembly?
 
One can never prove a negative. Negatives are inherently not provable. However, in the real world, I think one has to consider who is going to be inspecting it, and what level of evidence they would like to see to convince them that you handled potential LCPs properly.

Here are some things I am doing to document that I did so.

Photo/video of unassembled parts, with blue vinyl present.

A spreadsheet documenting my inspection of potential laser cut parts, noting whether they were or were not laser cut. Pictures where applicable.

Documentation of replacement of laser cut parts identified on the inspection. Eg: order & shipping docs. Photos also.

I think that would satisfy me if I was looking at the project.
 
I take frequent photos of my work in the shop (2500 of them on my 9A build) and keep those. I created an excel file showing all the POSSIBLE LCP's on my airplane, and all the ACTUAL LCP's I received in the kit based on visual inspection, and order dates for replacements of the actual received LCP's. That, with a shipping notice scanned in from Vans when I receive the LCP replacements should be enough to convince any reasonable person. If they are not convinced, then they don't have to buy my airplane, that's all I'm doing. Take it or leave it.
 
stigaro said:
I received my list of potential LCP's in my -14A fuselage the other day. I have one of the "potential LCP" red parts on my shelf still (idler arm). It is still wrapped in blue vinyl so is clearly punched. I can document this with a photograph. However, a couple other potential red LCP's have already been incorporated into my build. I am 100% certain that they were punched, but have no way to prove this as I did not take photos of the parts prior to working on them. My question going forward is how does one prove that their build does not contain LCP's? I am not going to risk damage to my build to replace these good parts with other good parts just for the sake of documenting the new parts.
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That idler arm is the only lCP I actually bothered to replace. The holes were all oblong where the laser cut was and since there's not going to be a squeezed rivet there, just single point of failure AN bolts on a moving part that's kind of important I paid the 8$ and bought a new one.
 
squeakersc063 said:
That idler arm is the only lCP I actually bothered to replace. The holes were all oblong where the laser cut was and since there's not going to be a squeezed rivet there, just single point of failure AN bolts on a moving part that's kind of important I paid the 8$ and bought a new one.
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Such a good question... I suspect a potential purchaser is going to want to see what was gotten from Vans in the form of red/yellow/blue parts. Pictures of the impacted parts both before and after installation in the structure. I think build quality will also go a long way to convincing a buyer of what you are stating is true. Just my thought on that last point. I think it speaks to a mindset.
 
If you sell your RV ten years from now very few buyers will have a clue what "red" or "yellow" is all about. Matter of fact, many of today's buyers are so uninformed and so eager to snatch whatever RV they can find that the LCP issue won't stop a sale. The rising construction price of RVs will restrict the number of RVs on the market in years to come and increase demand regardless of whether or not they got caught in the LCP web.

This too shall pass.
 
Thanks everyone. I think my documentation process is probably sufficient. There was only one week between the first LCP in inventory and my fuselage kit being shipped out. One would think Van's would have cycled through their old inventory prior to pulling parts from their new stash. So I feel pretty good that I indeed have no affected LCP's in my plane.

I have a lot of photos from my build (although not many with vinyl still on them) and curiously, the only photo that looks like a LCP is for part F-14132. This part is not on the list for the -14 as I suspect this part has always been laser cut. It definitely looks different than every other part I've used.
 

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For some lucky builders, the inventory list date might show that your parts are prior to the LCP mess. Parts with computer inventory tags include the part number and date. A continuous record of that would suffice, too.

Dave
 
airguy said:
Like a kidney stone, perhaps, but yes it shall pass. :p
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Well I for one had a kidney stone 35 years ago and the LCP is an easy pain of a problem. Time and money.
I thought I would rather die than put up with the stone. The nurse said it is worse than a woman having childbirth cause the pain never stops till it does.
NEVER want to go through that again. &)^%)^ I'd gladly give somebody thousands of dollars in a heart beat before going through it again.
My luck varies
fixit
 
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