Pre canoe-flip question (tip up)...

[cjensen]

I'm almost ready to flip the canoe on my 7, but I have a question on which rivets along the main longeron can be set before I turn it over. I've set the one's in the aft fuselage near the 710 bulkhead and aft. I've also set the 'keeper' (hole between holes) rivets in the tailcone section.

My question has to do with the area ahead of the 705 bulkhead, and the 902 bulkhead. In this pic (shamlessly taken from Dan's site), it looks like the rivets have been set in the area described above, since cleco's are absent in the area.

Even though things are getting nice and firm in the fuselage, I'd like to have as many set as possible before I flip it over.

__________________

 

[DGlaeser]

Longeron rivets

Study the drawing that shows the rivet callouts for all the skins (I don't know the dwg number). It shows which rivets are left out for later attachment of the upper skins. Be sure to look carefully and use the callouts for the correct (tipup not slider) skins. Guess why I'd say that Basically, the upper skins for the tipup run all the way up to the fitting that holds the seat back support.

 

[alpinelakespilot2000]

Chad-
I just flipped the canoe with the clecoes. You're going to fix the twist (or lack thereof) in the fuselage only when you attach the aft deck. Beyond that, you will just need to study the dwg. that shows all of the fuselage skin rivet callouts. It was accurate for my slider callouts. Have fun. Flipping the canoe is pretty cool. It's extra cool when you get the aft deck and firewall-longeron gussets riveted on and everything is square!

 

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

I delayed putting those rivets in because I paid attention to the instrutions that said "don't put the top row of rivets in forward past the 7 bulkhead."

In fact, there's no reason not to put that top row in from the 705 bulkhead.... except for the holes that are necessary for the top skin.
Plus it'll keep you from getting cleco-stabbed whenever you lean over into the darned thing once you flip it over.

 

[dan]

Why would you NOT rivet those side skin to longeron rivets between F-705 and F-704?!

Yeah, leave out whatever will be riveted later with top skins, but there aren't any top skins between 704 and 705.

 

[cjensen]

Thanks for pointing out the obvious Dan...

I realize there are no skins that attach in this area. I haven't found a reason NOT to, but wanted to be sure there is nothing I'm missing before setting a hundred or so rivets.

__________________

 

[grjtucson]

Now I'm Nervous...

Confession time and plea for reassurance.

I just mated my aft fuse and center section a week or so ago. I did it:
- right side up, basically on tables and sawhorses and propping things up to make the angles work, and
- with the baggage floor out
They went together really easy, no cursing, no duct tape. I put the bent parts of the side skins on the outside 'til I looked at the drawings more carefully, but that has since been remedied with no apparent problems.

Since doing that, I've been happily drilling longerons, drilling side skins, fitting armrests, and have "test hung" the firewall. I'm about to flip it over to actually fit the firewall and proceed with a lot more drilling including the bottom joints, skins, etc. At that point when drilling the firewall flanges and longeron to weldments, it will definitely be sitting on sawhorses on the longerons.

I have built a tail holder on a bench and am planning on a stand that rotates for the firewall. I really like the rotisserie idea and I'm in a VERY tiny space. Basically I'd like to be able to "flip" the canoe often as I build up the forward fuse, baggage compartment, etc.

Am I just being an idiot or is this going to work out OK?

It has been my experience thus far that with all matched holes it's pretty hard for things NOT to line up, and I'm a long ways from the back deck and gussets which seem to set things in stone.

Words of encouragement, or clearly reasoned arguments as to why I should have my builder's permit revoked are now welcome.

George

 

[DGlaeser]

Confession time and plea for reassurance.

I just mated my aft fuse and center section a week or so ago. I did it:
- right side up, basically on tables and sawhorses and propping things up to make the angles work, and
- with the baggage floor out
They went together really easy, no cursing, no duct tape. I put the bent parts of the side skins on the outside 'til I looked at the drawings more carefully, but that has since been remedied with no apparent problems.

Since doing that, I've been happily drilling longerons, drilling side skins, fitting armrests, and have "test hung" the firewall. I'm about to flip it over to actually fit the firewall and proceed with a lot more drilling including the bottom joints, skins, etc. At that point when drilling the firewall flanges and longeron to weldments, it will definitely be sitting on sawhorses on the longerons.

I have built a tail holder on a bench and am planning on a stand that rotates for the firewall. I really like the rotisserie idea and I'm in a VERY tiny space. Basically I'd like to be able to "flip" the canoe often as I build up the forward fuse, baggage compartment, etc.

Am I just being an idiot or is this going to work out OK?

It has been my experience thus far that with all matched holes it's pretty hard for things NOT to line up, and I'm a long ways from the back deck and gussets which seem to set things in stone.

Words of encouragement, or clearly reasoned arguments as to why I should have my builder's permit revoked are now welcome.

George

As Van's would say - Build on! The rotisserie will be nice, there were a couple of times I wish I'd done that.

 

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

If I had one of those nifty rotissiere things, I could flip that thing over today and fill a Mason jar with all the washers, nuts, rivets that would fall out. I've been dropping stuff down in there for two years.

 

[AltonD]

I had a pretty good twist in mine after I flippped it. I could take it out and clamp the aft deck plate but it would slip and not be at zero. this went on for several hours. I finally decided to cleco on the aft skins. This did the trick. the twist was almost zero with no clamps with the aft skins on. clamped and drilled. ZERO twist. Match drilled, what a way to go.

 

[johnp]

Confession time and plea for reassurance.

I just mated my aft fuse and center section a week or so ago. I did it:
- right side up, basically on tables and sawhorses and propping things up to make the angles work, and
- with the baggage floor out
They went together really easy, no cursing, no duct tape. I put the bent parts of the side skins on the outside 'til I looked at the drawings more carefully, but that has since been remedied with no apparent problems.

Since doing that, I've been happily drilling longerons, drilling side skins, fitting armrests, and have "test hung" the firewall. I'm about to flip it over to actually fit the firewall and proceed with a lot more drilling including the bottom joints, skins, etc. At that point when drilling the firewall flanges and longeron to weldments, it will definitely be sitting on sawhorses on the longerons.

I have built a tail holder on a bench and am planning on a stand that rotates for the firewall. I really like the rotisserie idea and I'm in a VERY tiny space. Basically I'd like to be able to "flip" the canoe often as I build up the forward fuse, baggage compartment, etc.

Am I just being an idiot or is this going to work out OK?

It has been my experience thus far that with all matched holes it's pretty hard for things NOT to line up, and I'm a long ways from the back deck and gussets which seem to set things in stone.

Words of encouragement, or clearly reasoned arguments as to why I should have my builder's permit revoked are now welcome.

George

george --

i did mine right-side-up also. never did flip it over (fitted the firewall right-side up as well). i used a rotater made out of a harbor freight engine stand. i had to add about 3 inches to the joint on the engine stand where the horizontal bolted to the vertical member (needed a little extra height for clearance, this also made the angle of the plate more vertical -- it comes at about a 75-80 degree angle.) built a 2x4/carpet sling. i just took it off the rotater last week -- starting on the canopy and i want it lower for that. also, on mine the steps couldn't be riveted on until i took it off the rotater (well, they could, but then it wouldn't rotate because the step would hit the floor.)

i think you're just fine.

john

 

[grjtucson]

THANKS!

Thanks for the encouragement! If you're curious, below are the bench connection for the aft rotisserie pivot. The front will get built once I have the firewall on and a design for the stand.

I also put a couple of pics in to show how you can build in a small, one-car garage. It don't mean it's fun or easy, but it can be done.

George