Planning my panel too

[pgroell]

Recently there have been a few threads on VAF about planning the panel. Here is my last iteration.
The idea is to have a VFR cross-country panel.
As I'm flying in Europe, the rules are not the same as on the other side of the Atlantic, for the time being day VFR only.
My idea is to have at least one EFIS but be able to fly with the EFIS inop, that means I need some engine monitoring capability outside the EFIS. I choose a GRT system, the EIS 4000 being rugged and proven.
The EIS 4000 would be a single point of failure and would ground the plane but it seems to me it's easier to replace (smaller, less expensive) than having to wait for an EFIS to be delivered over here.
I'm still pondering the type of EFIS : Sport or Horizon. The only problem I have with the Sport is the lack of analog inputs for trim and flaps.


Here is a picture of a single EFIS layout :

All one time a flight switches are on the left, some switches are missing as is the parking brake handle.
Switches used a bit more are near the throttle.
Autopilot switches are located near the autopilot and EFIS.
Annunciator lights functions are still open to debate (EIS, Low oil, Fuel pump, E-bus......)


As I would like the plane to be flyable from both seats, I might go to a dual display panel (finances allowing). This will be possible by moving a few items but the general idea would remain the same.

 

[Rivethead]

That's a nice looking panel.

 

[RudiGreyling]

Nice panel,

I have just laser cut my panel, 2 things to remember what I learned.
1) I don't know what canopy you are going to use but with a The Tip UP the map box needs to be lower, since the Tip UP structure is lower down at the rear sub panel. This is actually true for all long avionics, watch your top clearances with the tip up.
2) The Vans supplied DXF file for the panel account for the 1" bend at the bottom of the panel, so the bottom 1" is not usable.

Kind Regards
Rudi

 

[pgroell]

Thanks

Thanks for you input.
It will be a tip-up canopy, the mapbox will be installed per Van's instructions, I just put there for info.
I didn't use the Vans DFX file, but used Xpanel software. I'll check the dimensions and usability of the lower 1".

 

[alpinelakespilot2000]

Pascal-

You're panel is equipped very similar to mine. The only suggestion I would make is purely an aesthetic one based on my own preferences...

My eye was drawn immediately to the lack of a straight line across the bottom of the panel, particularly on the second version. Likewise, for both panels, is there a way to align some of your instruments, switches and knobs vertically a little more. By that I mean, can you either align edges or center things on the same vertical line? (For example, the left edges of the glove box and intercom on your second version could be aligned with each other. On the first version, you could line up the bottom of the EIS with the bottom of the glove box and the bottom of the intercom with the bottom of the transponder.) As you can tell, I like things in straight lines.

It usually ends up being impossible (or maybe even undesirable) to have a straight line across the top, but it's pretty easy to do horizontally on the bottom, and vertically everywhere.

Again, these are just personal preferences, so go with what pleases your eye. Panel planning has been one of the most enjoyable parts of my build. Good luck with yours.

 

[pgroell]

Lines

Hi Steve,
thanks for your comments. This is only the beginning, as has been noted in a previous post, the mapbox will be moved to the Vans suggested position for a tipup, this will help align with intercom or EIS.
For the time being, I'm looking at the general position of all the items, there is some fine tuning to be done : top edges relative to canopy clearance for example.
Anyway, I appreciate the comments.

 

[Ralph Inkster]

Two items I noted

You might think about splitting the strobe/nav switch, night taxiing around the airport with strobes on may not be appreciated by others. Or for cutting the power draw of the nav lights while using the strobes during the day for collision avoidance.

Consider possibility of your hand accidentally tripping a critical switch in rough air, while you are adjusting your radio.

Hope this helps

 

[Mike S]

It looks like you have a Garmin SL40 for a radio. It has a built in intercom.

You also have an intercom in the panel. You could just use the one in the SL 40, save a bit of $$, weight, and panel space.

Flap switch-----with your hand on the throttle, you will need to use a finger to activate the flaps-------most folks use their thumb.

Looks good.

 

[Brantel]

I'm still pondering the type of EFIS : Sport or Horizon. The only problem I have with the Sport is the lack of analog inputs for trim and flaps.

The Sport relies on the 6 analog inputs of the EIS for this. You can have up to six things like trim indicators, fuel level (left and right each use an input), fuel pressure, ammeter, and MAP. If you have three trim indicators, then you have to figure out what two other options you don't want on the displays.

 

[pgroell]

You might think about splitting the strobe/nav switch, night taxiing around the airport with strobes on may not be appreciated by others. Or for cutting the power draw of the nav lights while using the strobes during the day for collision avoidance.

The Nav-Strobe will be a dual switch, no night flying normally, see first post

Consider possibility of your hand accidentally tripping a critical switch in rough air, while you are adjusting your radio.

Thanks, I'll have a look at that

It looks like you have a Garmin SL40 for a radio. It has a built in intercom.

The SL40 is there because it was available in the program I used, I might use another radio (ICOM or FILSER)

Flap switch-----with your hand on the throttle, you will need to use a finger to activate the flaps-------most folks use their thumb.

Thank, it will be left of the throttle, there will be room for that in my next iteration.

The Sport relies on the 6 analog inputs of the EIS for this. You can have up to six things like trim indicators, fuel level (left and right each use an input), fuel pressure, ammeter, and MAP. If you have three trim indicators, then you have to figure out what two other options you don't want on the displays.

I'm following your thread on the other forum, and have posted a question on the GRT YahooGroup, but got no answer. One can use the analog inputs from the EIS, but how will they be displayed on the EFIS : will it look like the Horizon flaps or trim indicators, or will an engine like bargraph be used.
I would need : two for trim and one for flaps. As I need two inputs for fuel tanks, that leaves only one input on the EIS. I would like fuel pressure and ammeter, so I am stuck.
I might use the Ray Allen trim indicators and only hook the flaps to the EIS. That would also go with my philosophy of being able to fly without EFIS, the trim indicators would always be there, and the flaps can be checked visually.

Thanks for you input.

 

[Brantel]

I'm following your thread on the other forum, and have posted a question on the GRT YahooGroup, but got no answer. One can use the analog inputs from the EIS, but how will they be displayed on the EFIS : will it look like the Horizon flaps or trim indicators, or will an engine like bargraph be used.
I would need : two for trim and one for flaps. As I need two inputs for fuel tanks, that leaves only one input on the EIS. I would like fuel pressure and ammeter, so I am stuck.
I might use the Ray Allen trim indicators and only hook the flaps to the EIS. That would also go with my philosophy of being able to fly without EFIS, the trim indicators would always be there, and the flaps can be checked visually.

Thanks for you input.

I will also be using the LED elevator trim ind. if I go with the dual Sport. Reason being is that I just won't have enough inputs from the EIS. I will most likely put the flaps on the screen because it will be easier to see it there.

Here is a screen shot right out of the Sport manual. As you can see, the trim indicators and flaps show really nice. Nice that is if you have enough inputs to drive them.

 

[Jim P]

I would need : two for trim and one for flaps. As I need two inputs for fuel tanks, that leaves only one input on the EIS. I would like fuel pressure and ammeter, so I am stuck.

Why not go with just pitch/roll trim, and throw out the flap indicator. That deletes the wiring and flap position sensor (time/$) and opens up the additional analog feed for Amps or fuel flow.

All that's needed for flap position is a quick look out the window.

 

[dhall_polo]

- the tip up canopy eject handle would be right in the middle of the 496. you'll have to move that or not do the eject handle.
- you're going to have to move your subpanel support ribs. that's common, but your arrangement might need to spread out a little to allow for that
- the sl40 and xpdr are deep and will require subpanel mods. again, common, but given your mission, you may find cheaper and smaller options.
- The compass sure has a prominent place in the panel. If you have one at all, I'd move it to cheaper real estate on the left side of the panel. then move your airspeed and autopilot to the left.
- aesthetics: consider one row of switches along the bottom rather than switches all over the place.
- do you really need an ap on/off? is that a disc-ap?

Good luck.

 

[Greg Arehart]

And consider whether you really need an extra on-off switch for the GPS. I ended up deciding that it was simpler to just use the on-off switch built into most electronic avionics rather than adding extra switches.

greg

 

[pgroell]

Thanks

the tip up canopy eject handle would be right in the middle of the 496. you'll have to move that or not do the eject handle.

No handle in the panel, the handle will remain on the subpanel.

the sl40 and xpdr are deep and will require subpanel mods. again, common, but given your mission, you may find cheaper and smaller options.

As said in a previous post, that may change, I had those pictures in the program I'm using to plan the panel.

The compass sure has a prominent place in the panel. If you have one at all, I'd move it to cheaper real estate on the left side of the panel. then move your airspeed and autopilot to the left.

First, on this side of the Atlantic you have to have a compass.
The compass is at this place, because if I go with dual EFIS (right seat flying), there will be no space available on the right. If staying with one EFIS that is an option.

aesthetics : consider one row of switches along the bottom rather than switches all over the place.

I prefer the layout to be mission driven rather than aesthetics. So the switches on the left and center will remain there, the one's I might move are A/P and GPS/EFIS.

do you really need an ap on/off? is that a disc-ap?

The DigiFlightII installation manual shows an Autopilot Master switch. The disconnect buttons are on the sticks.

And consider whether you really need an extra on-off switch for the GPS

The GPS switch is not a GPS on/off switch, but a switch to chose if the EFIS or the GPS is sending steering commands to the autopilot. In normal operations this switch would be in the EFIS position.

Thanks all for your input, all is valuable. I still have some time left to think about all this, and there will be changes to the panel in the future.

 

[bruce1369]

Magnetic compass

If this is to be a dual control cockpit, you need to relocate the compass to the top center position.
Also, move your airspeed indicator where the compass is now.
Consider adding ball bank indicators under each EFIS . At only 36.50 (Aircraft Spruce) it's cheap insurance.
Regards,
N58CY