I know of a neighbor that bought a brand new sealed battery and a Plane Power Alternator. The alternator model was the one selected by Plane Power for the set up on the aircraft. Two hours of flying destroyed the battery by overcharging. Plane Power determined the wrong alternator had been selected and agreed to replace it (and the regulator) with the correct one. They would not replace the battery. I know this is a tough call. Just curious if most would expect a battery replacement in this case. Apparently the correct alternator was more expensive and they felt it offset the battery loss. The vendor exits with damage under control. The customer leaves with a bad taste in his mouth and a horror story to tell.
Van's Air Force
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Plane Power
- Thread starter Peterk
- Start date
A little bit of devil's advocate here, but...
The aircraft builder/owner/operator/pilot should have known the max charging voltage for the battery onboard, and should have had the means onboard to detect the over-voltage condition (typically either a volt meter or over-volt annunciator in the panel). Regardless of the cause of the over-voltage condition, the pilot should not have let an over-voltage condition persist for two hours. He should have taken the alternator off-line. And had he done so in a timely manner, the battery would likely not have been damaged.
So, a bit of a tough call here, since both the vendor and the pilot screwed up. But I think the destruction of the battery likely could and should have been prevented by the pilot taking appropriate action, and so I'd have to say that the vendor's response is reasonable.
The aircraft builder/owner/operator/pilot should have known the max charging voltage for the battery onboard, and should have had the means onboard to detect the over-voltage condition (typically either a volt meter or over-volt annunciator in the panel). Regardless of the cause of the over-voltage condition, the pilot should not have let an over-voltage condition persist for two hours. He should have taken the alternator off-line. And had he done so in a timely manner, the battery would likely not have been damaged.
So, a bit of a tough call here, since both the vendor and the pilot screwed up. But I think the destruction of the battery likely could and should have been prevented by the pilot taking appropriate action, and so I'd have to say that the vendor's response is reasonable.
Voltage, not charge rate.
Alternators (or more precisely, regulators that control alternators) are designed to be constant voltage devices. A constant voltage source is a very simple and less-than-ideal battery charger, but that's what it is, and it works well enough. The key to that though is selecting a voltage within an appropriate range: high enough to effectively charge the battery, but not so high as to cook it. Specs vary by battery type, and the alternator/regulator must be selected or adjusted accordingly. But regulating voltage is all the alternator/regulator knows. Whatever charge current (charge "rate") results from that voltage is a function of the type of battery and its state of charge. Looking at your ammeter at any instant in time won't tell you that you're "overcharging" your battery. For example, very high charge rate is perfectly normal for a partly depleted battery, such as after engine start. Voltage is the key here. An over-voltage condition is the immediate and unambiguous indication of the problem.
Gary Bricker
Well Known Member
Installer is responsible
Not every company is Wal-Mart. The reason for application charts is so the buyer can get the correct part. If you don't know if you have the right part then look it up yourself. Misinformation passed between two or more persons is the problem. I see this daily in the auto parts business. Then the sales person gets the blame or the part is defect.
Not every company is Wal-Mart. The reason for application charts is so the buyer can get the correct part. If you don't know if you have the right part then look it up yourself. Misinformation passed between two or more persons is the problem. I see this daily in the auto parts business. Then the sales person gets the blame or the part is defect.
Of course Walt is right...it is the installers responsibility. Guess I was curious what builders/owners expect from vendor service. Cleveland Tools (with business down) was quick to reply with "leave the customer happy". Repeat business, customer satisfaction is the lifeblood of any selling endeavor. I agree, pilot error is involved and the installation was not correct. But again I read on here all the time about how Van's is quick to satisfy "no questions asked" and I know Cleveland Tools is because I have dealt with them. Walt even offered to re-balance my prop after a hub recall. The OFFER to make everything right goes a long way. Leaving you the alternative to accept (including the guilt when it was your fault) or refuse the offer is outstanding service. It was a quality product that ended up with an unhappy customer. That can't be good for the survival of the product.
LettersFromFlyoverCountry
Well Known Member
Can we get some particularly useful information? What was the model of Plane Power alternator installed? And what was the battery with which it didn't play nicely?
Sorry..didn't intend for this thread to be a "who was wrong" thread (both were) or even a "who was more wrong" thread, but instead a question about what kind of service you expect from a vendor when both are at fault: partial fix or complete fix? Personally, I like to be OFFERED a complete fix so I know they care...a simple customer service technique.
The vendor's response was reasonable. Your expectation of the vendor is unreasonable.
Good customer service means standing behind your product, which in my opinion, they did. Good customer service doesn't mean the vendor has to heed to any unreasonable demand from the customer. Business is a two way street, and both parties should approach it rationally and reasonably.
It's unfair to criticize the vendor for refusing to shell out a couple hundred bucks for a new battery just to appease your friend.
It's a bummer that your friend had this unpleasant occurrence, but he's wrong in placing the blame on the vendor, and wrong to expect the vendor to pay for damage he himself caused.
Good customer service means standing behind your product, which in my opinion, they did. Good customer service doesn't mean the vendor has to heed to any unreasonable demand from the customer. Business is a two way street, and both parties should approach it rationally and reasonably.
It's unfair to criticize the vendor for refusing to shell out a couple hundred bucks for a new battery just to appease your friend.
It's a bummer that your friend had this unpleasant occurrence, but he's wrong in placing the blame on the vendor, and wrong to expect the vendor to pay for damage he himself caused.
RVbySDI
Well Known Member
AMEN! I was going to say something similar but you, sir, stated it much more eloquently than I ever could.
I will add this though: Anyone who has been building for very long should notice a very distinct difference between the vendors we deal with in our build (SteinAir, Cleveland Tools, Avery Tools, Classic Aero Interiors, Vans, Plane Power, LightSpeed, GRT, Dynon, MGL, TruTrak, etc. etc. etc.) and vendors in other aspects of our lives (car parts, home improvement, retail service, etc.). There is no comparison to the level of customer treatment seen by the first group to the second group.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
These days, it must all be weighed out. The "customer is always right" mentality can be a good start to going out of business........whether a company cares or not. Personally, I don't like seeing interent threads, in which it's insinuated that the "customer is always right", and that the vendor is a villain, if they are not persuaded to agree.
L.Adamson
Sorry to disappoint, but no one gets to vote on whether the customer is always right...it is what it is...they have the all the money. This website alone is totally dependent upon Doug's customers and their willingness to depart with their money. The service he provides is one that no other individual is willing to do. On top of that, he is willing to bet his livelihood on that service. He refuses to demand payment which he would certainly be entitled to do. He doesn't do that to avoid "customer complaints", he does it to provide service so good that you will have to have it...at any cost....so far, so good (we hope!)
To clarify this incident, the individual inquired of the company which equip he should purchase and install for this particular set-up. The equipment he was sold after that conversation was the wrong equipment. He flew with the equipment installed and destroyed the battery. A follow-up conversation with the vendor resulted in an admitted error, a correct alternator and no offer for the battery. Both parties are satisfied. Obviously I am a minority in considering that as poor customer service. I like Doug's offer better. So be it. And yes I donate...I have to have it.
To clarify this incident, the individual inquired of the company which equip he should purchase and install for this particular set-up. The equipment he was sold after that conversation was the wrong equipment. He flew with the equipment installed and destroyed the battery. A follow-up conversation with the vendor resulted in an admitted error, a correct alternator and no offer for the battery. Both parties are satisfied. Obviously I am a minority in considering that as poor customer service. I like Doug's offer better. So be it. And yes I donate...I have to have it.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
It doesn't clarify enough. I'd have to know the specifics of his request, and the model number of what he received; and their side of the conversation. I know that when I purchased my Plane Power alternator.............that I had done the research, received what I ordered, installed correctly, and monitored the performance.
What I don't like about these forums, is when someone writes a post, basically condemning a particular vendor, without enough facts to back up their statement. I get farther annoyed, when the same indivuals keep pressing their agenda..................while "still" lacking on information. It isn't fair to vendors, and often misrepresents the facts.
L.Adamson
Peter, your post is full of non sequiturs, and even some assertions that are simply false. But rather than dissect them one by one, I will only point out the following. That even as a paying customer of Doug's web site, if you blindly follow some bad piece of advice posted on this forum, and as a result you destroy your battery, you should have no reasonable expectation that Doug or anyone else would buy you a new battery either.
LettersFromFlyoverCountry
Well Known Member
ColoRv
Well Known Member
I find this conversation odd. A vendor selling a product is by that very fact...the expert. If I call up and say send me part number xx951 and it doesn't work...my fault. If I call up and say send me an alternator for a specific setup....and they admittedly send the wrong part....their fault. Their fault and their responsibility...for any damage it causes.
I own my company, and in an economy where competitors of mine are failing every day...we are flourishing. The reason for that is we take responsibility if something goes wrong with our process and we eat whatever it takes to make the client whole again. Sometimes that means thousands. We ARE the experts, when we make the mistake we do not pawn it off. Not a penny of it and I don't care if it means we take a loss on the job. A happy client tells a friend. An unhappy one tells the world.
The problem with American business is a serious lack of character. Nobody is perfect. But when you screw up, stand up, admit your mistake and make it right. Blaming the customer for not double checking your work? Yup, the new American way. I say, shame on you Plane Power, provided what we were told is true.
But then again, that's the real crux of it isn't it? An unhappy customer tells the world...and you are never there to defend yourself when they do. Go the extra mile...that's what a profit margin is there to absorb.
I own my company, and in an economy where competitors of mine are failing every day...we are flourishing. The reason for that is we take responsibility if something goes wrong with our process and we eat whatever it takes to make the client whole again. Sometimes that means thousands. We ARE the experts, when we make the mistake we do not pawn it off. Not a penny of it and I don't care if it means we take a loss on the job. A happy client tells a friend. An unhappy one tells the world.
The problem with American business is a serious lack of character. Nobody is perfect. But when you screw up, stand up, admit your mistake and make it right. Blaming the customer for not double checking your work? Yup, the new American way. I say, shame on you Plane Power, provided what we were told is true.
But then again, that's the real crux of it isn't it? An unhappy customer tells the world...and you are never there to defend yourself when they do. Go the extra mile...that's what a profit margin is there to absorb.
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DCat22
Well Known Member
Yeah....
First time I've read this thread....but as for the OP and Plane Power, it doesn't seem like we know anywhere near enough to judge either party.
What details did the buyer give PP? And how did PP respond? They is a whole LOT of grey area here where what we know would be PP going above and beyond, or where they should be chipped in for the battery.
I don't like the thread because a vendor is being smeared with very little actual information about what happened, why at happened, and what PP was told and asked for etc....and even that information is second hand.
Brantel
Well Known Member
Yeah....
First time I've read this thread....but as for the OP and Plane Power, it doesn't seem like we know anywhere near enough to judge either party.
What details did the buyer give PP? And how did PP respond? They is a whole LOT of grey area here where what we know would be PP going above and beyond, or where they should be chipped in for the battery.
I don't like the thread because a vendor is being smeared with very little actual information about what happened, why at happened, and what PP was told and asked for etc....and even that information is second hand.
Yep you got that right!
Amen!!!
ColoRv
Well Known Member
But this is a discussion board. The intent is to discuss vendors and all experiences with them, not just the ones that went perfectly. With the amount of poster bashing that goes on in here anytime an imperfect review comes through, one has to wonder if every vendor listed has a few dozen employees paid to run interference.
I can't say whether or not the original poster is lying. But I can say that if I hear enough times bad things about a vendor, I will avoid them. If some in here were to get their way, no bad details would ever be passed on. Then we might as well rename this VansVendors.com.
Personally, I'll take the guy at his word until I know otherwise.
I can't say whether or not the original poster is lying. But I can say that if I hear enough times bad things about a vendor, I will avoid them. If some in here were to get their way, no bad details would ever be passed on. Then we might as well rename this VansVendors.com.
Personally, I'll take the guy at his word until I know otherwise.
RVbySDI
Well Known Member
Mr. Shook, I don't think anyone on this thread is accusing the original poster of lying. What I am hearing is that people are asking for more details. Please do not be so quick to think people are out to crucify anyone. This is the most civil group of type A individuals I have ever been around. It is unfair and just plain wrong to jump to conclusions with few facts. That is what I am taking from the requests for the original poster to provide more details, not to accuse him of anything.
