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Pinpoint GADAHRS compatibility

C

CharlieHotel

I'm New Here
Hi folks

Just hoping I can get some advice on the Pinpoint GADAHRS. We are currently wiring up the Pinpoint GADAHRS to a couple of Chelton EFIS IDU's purchased in 2006 or 2007 (we know we know but the intention was to complete earlier!) which currently have version 5.0B, valid date 07/06/2007.

We have not been able to get the GADAHRS to talk to the IDU's. We contacted Chelton who state the following:

You have stated that the Integrated Display Units (IDU) in the aircraft currently have version 5.0B operating software. To adequately support the ADAHRS, the software must be 6.0B. Due to the age of the software, chances are that the microprocessor and memory are not sufficient to operate the 6.0B software. This software requires 128MB or 256MB of RAM due to the additional terrain and other options that get loaded when it is operating. It is very possible that the current RAM in the IDUs is 64MB. Unfortunately, the unit must be opened to change the RAM which requires it to be returned to us. Additionally, communications circuits on the Mother board may need to be changed to properly interface to the ADAHRS due to the higher communications speed of the ADAHRS.

The units may be returned to our facility for an upgrade called "G2". This upgrade replaces the microprocessor with the latest version (possibly increasing the speed from 250MHz to 900MHz) for improved operation, replacing the RAM to 256MB, inspecting and updating the keyboard PCB for improved operation, and replacing the Mother board if the communication circuitry is not sufficient for the ADAHRS.

I was surprised by the need to do this and also the lack of forward compatibility for a unit replacing the Crossbow ADAHRS. I have inherited the project so to speak so I don't know if the Pinpoint was a replacement or new purchase with the system.

Some of you might have perhaps been in the same position and we would greatly appreciate any advice or comments.

Many thanks :)
CH

RV-10 Super slow build
 
Last edited:
Howdy,
On bootup if it says 256Mb of Ram and 650mhz, you have the G2. That should be simple to ascertain.
You definitely want to go to 6.0B, in any case.
Check that bootup screen. Mine were delivered in 2005 and they are G2 so I'd be surprised if yours aren't. Once you get the system set up you'll like it a lot.
Also, you may want to go to cheltonefispilots.com for help. well over 200 users that are very helpful. Lots of files, manuals, diagrams, and more.
Tim
 
Hi Tim
Thanks so much for your advice. We'll start with that and hopefully discover we have G2...
Part of the trouble is that the original builder who was a very close friend is no longer with us so we don't have the complete set of information, manuals and any CD Rom software which may have come with the Cheltons and the GADAHRS. We don't even know if the latter was a recall replacement for a Crossbow. And to top it off Western Australia no longer has an avionics firm which represents the Chelton side of Cobham! Fun and games.
Will repost when we do as you have suggested.
Thanks again
CH
 
We have the older version :-(
Looks like we'll be shelling out for an upgrade. Will be same price as a midrange Dynon - ouch.
Anyway we hope to post a first flight before the year's out.
The original owner had purchased the avionics very similar to your stack Tim. He must have either been telepathic if he bought it all before your blog or taken a leaf out of yours! Only 2 Cheltons which with the per unit upgrade cost seems to be a relief now.
Hopefully the return to base fix won't take too long.
Thanks once again.
CH
 
CharlieHotel said:
We have the older version :-(
Looks like we'll be shelling out for an upgrade. Will be same price as a midrange Dynon - ouch.
Anyway we hope to post a first flight before the year's out.
The original owner had purchased the avionics very similar to your stack Tim. He must have either been telepathic if he bought it all before your blog or taken a leaf out of yours! Only 2 Cheltons which with the per unit upgrade cost seems to be a relief now.
Hopefully the return to base fix won't take too long.
Thanks once again.
CH
Click to expand...

Have you fully considered all of your options? I know it's not fun either way, but I'm not sure I would recommend putting a ton of money into the IDU's to update them when long term viability of the very screens is doubtful at best. Not saying you shouldn't do it, just saying I'd be hard pressed to recommend one of my customers spending money on a CFS when the alternatives (current generation stuff that is supported by the mfgr) are reasonably priced....

My something to think about.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Sorry to hear you have the old versions. That's not going to be good. I think you'd still like the system if you get it upgrade, but as Stein says, depending on your needs you may or may not want to go in that direction. For an IFR platform, I think it would be wonderful. If you're going to go VFR, you have tons of other options that wouldn't cost too much. The upgrade cost isn't too bad, actually, but for the longer term you won't get the support that you would out of Garmin, for instance. For my money, these days I'd say either stick with what you have, or go all out and get a G3X or G900 panel put together. When you decide on what you want, consider what equipment holds approach and obstruction databases, and how much they cost, and if they give you all of what you need or not. For an IFR pilot, the cost of your upgrades will be nothing compared to what you'll spend after 5 years of NavData. So look at those factors. It may be enough that you don't even care for IFR flying, and if that's true, you can start looking at some of the cheaper alternatives in brand new hardware.

On the upside, if you decide to get rid of your system, I know some people who may be interested in parts of it depending on the cost.
Tim
 
Thanks guys
Yes I had thought about a new EFIS but the aircraft will be IFR. We quite deep in with the panel cut and all the electricals done and wired so I don't know that it is worth scrapping all the work. The quoted cost of the upgrade is about USD5000 plus shipping and that is softened by the strong Aussie dollar at the moment thankfully.
If anyone has suggestions about alternative IFR EFIS' to the Cheltons, we would be interested to hear. Interesting to discuss in any case. We have 2 Cheltons and a stack pretty much like Tim's (Trutrak D IIVS, GNS430, SL30, GTX330, GRT EIS 6000, PSE PMA8000) but with an L3 WX500 and Avidyne TAS600.
Cheers
CH
 
Thanks Stein look forward to hearing from you.
We have however already started making plans to go to Chelton. I am not too familiar with the other experimental makes to know if they would link to the stormscope and traffic. From the start when we took over the build, the Cheltons had been a fait accompli so apart from just curiosity and passing interest, I have not looked hard at the other systems.
:)
CH
 
CharlieHotel said:
Thanks Stein look forward to hearing from you.
We have however already started making plans to go to Chelton. I am not too familiar with the other experimental makes to know if they would link to the stormscope and traffic. From the start when we took over the build, the Cheltons had been a fait accompli so apart from just curiosity and passing interest, I have not looked hard at the other systems.
:)
CH
Click to expand...

Both AFS and GRT have no issues with those devices and would be good alternatives to the Chelton. You have Garmin too, but that's even more $$$. Too bad it's not an easy trek for you to attend OSH next week. You could see them all first hand.

bob
 
Hi Bob
Might make Osh next year. lt'd be like a time warp visit to the future - see what our panel missed out on! I'll take a spare seat if anyone's taking the long way round via Perth :D.
We've actually installed the GADAHRS, magnetometer, panel all wired up. So I can't imagine we'd swoop to GRTor something else at this point. Just wish we'd known about the upgrade issue earlier- it might have allowed more time to mentally prepare :eek: and look at the options! Probably would have stuck with the Cheltons anyway to be honest.
I've flown a G1000. All the new generation PFD terrain rendered graphics look pretty but I don't know that there is much added functionality.The support from Cobham continues with Robert Durall of then Chelton who has been very prompt and helpful in his responses. Seems the Pinpoint GADAHRS has now been taken over fully by Cobham and is now TSO.
Regards CH
 
Are you sure those upgrades are $5000 USD? Back when I knew people who were getting them when the newer software came out, I think it was something like $400 or $700 per screen is all. I'm not sure if you're getting bad information , or if the pricing changed that drastically, but $5k is quite ridiculous. For that kind of cash, you'd be better off finding someone else who is trying to get rid of their system and buying it from them as spare hardware. You'd probably be able to get a good deal on it that way and have spare hardware to boot. The CPU is the most significant difference. The memory is easily available.
Tim
 
Hi Tim
Yes 5K is as bitter pill to swallow. I have pasted below mopat of the complete response given. I'd be interested to know what that plus a sell off of the Cheltons would get me instead maybe from Stein.

Here's the response, some irrelevant parts not included:

PinPoint is a marketing arm
of Chelton Flight Systems and was organized to market the ADAHRS while it
was still in development for the experimental market. Since the ADAHRS is
now a TSO'd product, PinPoint is no longer being used. We are the
manufacturer and support for the ADAHRS.

You have stated that the Integrated Display Units (IDU) in the aircraft
currently have version 5.0B operating software. To adequately support the
ADAHRS, the software must be 6.0B. Due to the age of the software, chances
are that the microprocessor and memory are not sufficient to operate the
6.0B software. This software requires 128MB or 256MB of RAM due to the
additional terrain and other options that get loaded when it is operating.
It is very possible that the current RAM in the IDUs is 64MB.
Unfortunately, the unit must be opened to change the RAM which requires it
to be returned to us. Additionally, communications circuits on the Mother
board may need to be changed to properly interface to the ADAHRS due to the
higher communications speed of the ADAHRS.

The units may be returned to our facility for an upgrade called "G2". This
upgrade replaces the microprocessor with the latest version (possibly
increasing the speed from 250MHz to 900MHz) for improved operation,
replacing the RAM to 256MB, inspecting and updating the keyboard PCB for
improved operation, and replacing the Mother board if the communication
circuitry is not sufficient for the ADAHRS. List price for the G2 upgrade
is $2445 USD per display. We repair all of our parts at flat-rate and the
repair will not go above this pricing.

In addition, we will look at the Terrain database and ensure that you have
the South Pacific version installed. If not, we will install the South
Pacific at no additional cost.:
 
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