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Pattern configuration for 7A

Webb

Webb

Well Known Member
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I found some info but not exactly what I was looking for (probably didn't find the right thread) so please excuse if this is a repeat.

I am writing my POH and would like some base numbers to start with regarding numbers in the pattern. When I flew a Bonanza, not only was speed important but engine settings to get there was a big part of it.

So here it is. The plane is a 7A with a IO-360 (180hp) and a CS prop.

I'm looking for speed, manifold pressure, and rpm - at the different points. Also when and how much flap is dropped for each leg of the pattern. Also any tricks such as a little nose up when you drop 10 degrees in a C172 to put on the brakes and start down when abeam of the numbers.

Entering the pattern
Downwind
Base
Final
 
Hope this helps

entering: 14", AS 110/120mph then when stable 18" and 2300 rpm
Abeam the numbers: power to idle, push prop, 20 degree flap, then back to 1800-200 rpm 100mph
turn to downwind: full flap, 1800-2000 rpm, 85 mph
thats it to the ground
 
Wow, there will be about a million (ok, about 5000) opinions on this... there are threads in this forum about this.

Lots of variables - anyone else in the pattern, control tower, etc. But, I generally slow to about 100 knots entering downwind, somewhere in that speed region the C/S prop isn't controlling any more, and I push prop forward. Engine maybe at 10 inches? I don't really pay any attention. Abeam, and slowed to flap speed I go full flaps, which will require a lot of trim change. That will set up about a 500 fpm descent at something like that 10" MAP setting. 80 knots somewhere in here, 70 on final, 65 if calm or short field.

Many RV fliers will go to idle abeam, which is fine if short approach is acceptable, but from 1000' agl and abeam, you will need to make a constant turn to the threshold without flaps until almost down (at least with C/S).

BTW, pulling power to idle in flight (>100 knots) with FI will probably result in afterfiring in the pipes, the popping of exploding gas in the pipes. Not a huge deal, but will cause them to move around a bit.
 
I recently did this for the 6A. I looked at numerous POH's which can be found through a link on this website, as well as postings regarding training from Mike Seager.

You'll also see many opinions from half flaps to full flaps for the majority of landings.

So far, I'm liking a 90,80,70 "kias" pattern speed and half flaps. The landings in my 6A are some of the best I've ever made, and not a bounce yet. Just make sure the stick is getting full back as speed is bled off after touchdown.

In fact, I'm finding the 6A to be as easy, or easier, than all the landings I've done in 9A's. The 90,80,70 "kias" for the 6A is about 10 mph faster, than the 90,80,70 "mph" I used for the 9A.

L.Adamson RV6A , 180HP, Hartzell C/S prop
 
Wow!

2300 rpm in the pattern? That cruise rpm.
85 mph across the fence?
Full flaps every time?
You guys must use an awful lot of runway.
I typically enter the pattern at 100 mph, 10-15* flap. Add flap as necessary. Cross the fence at 70-75 mph.
These are rough numbers because once I'm in the pattern, I'm looking outside and flying the airplane by "feel".
Flaps should be used to control glide path. Once you are at full flaps, there are no other options. I only go to full flaps if I'm high on final or for short field. I consider short field anything less than 1700'.

Obviously there are many ways to land an RV, and you should use the method that is comfortable for you. But, please consider expanding your envelope and practice some short field work. Someday you may need it.
 
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I enter down wind at 120, slow to 100 mph... first notch... hold the nose to 85... motor just above idle... start down... turn base 45deg from landing spot... second notch... hold 85 till on final then bleed off speed to 65 over the fence... FLAIR... touch mains only... hold nose full aft till it sets on it's own... turn off at the 700 ft off ramp execpt when hot and heavy.

I trim for heavy stick in the pattern, it gives you a better "feel" of what the aircraft is telling you. And if for any reason you relax your grip, you want the nose to go down..........

6A.. 320.. fixed prop.. cleveland nose wheel!!
 
Pattern at 100 mph.. abeam the numbers go full flaps and trim to 80mph with 1500 rpm. This will give you a 500 fpm descent. Short final 70-mph and enought throttle to make the runway.

As Mell said, try it with flaps "0" or different than you normally do ,but have plenty of runway to see the difference. I used a ton of runway my first no flap and slip landing..... Just takes a little practice to get use to the new feel and now you are ready for a flap motor failure if it happens.

6A...0360.. fixed pitch prop
 
I like numbers

Thanks for the responses. Call me anal but lean towards systematic approach to a stabilized approach. Maybe it's the way I was taught but works for me. I also like round numbers that make sense when you change somthing. I also like adjust the trim ONCE and leave it alone while you are on the way down.

I know that there are lots of ways of setting one up due to preferences.

Will this work.......110-100-90-80-70-60 (knots)

Enter at 110
Downwind midfield at 100
Drop 10* at numbers and start down on downwind at 90
Turn base, drop 10* and slow to 80
Turn final, drop last 10-20*, cross the fence at 70
Land ~ 60 knots

If these will work, what settings would you use (man/rpm)?

Also, when flying an ILS, what speed and settings when level in the procedure, and then what speed and settings (including flaps) on the decent after crossing the FAF.
 
Trimming is a VERB

The Bonanza approach is very structured with power settings. The RV is different and you must be willing to adapt to the changes. During your Phase I go out at altitude and practice power settings and airspeeds for simulated approaches.

Personally, I use no less than 2500 RPM and put it in before getting in the pattern. I use 14" to get slowed down and TRIM, four count on the flaps after getting to 95 kias. Trim for 80 kias and add the rest of the flaps as necessary abeam. Trim for 70 kias on final. Short final, field made ease back to 65 kts. Don't fight it, use the trim.

In a 7, if you are fast, you will use LOTS of runway. Be adaptive and keep you head out.

Remember, trimming is a verb, always occurring.
 
I'm willing

RV7Guy said:
The Bonanza approach is very structured with power settings. The RV is different and you must be willing to adapt to the changes. During your Phase I go out at altitude and practice power settings and airspeeds for simulated approaches.

Personally, I use no less than 2500 RPM and put it in before getting in the pattern. I use 14" to get slowed down and TRIM, four count on the flaps after getting to 95 kias. Trim for 80 kias and add the rest of the flaps as necessary abeam. Trim for 70 kias on final. Short final, field made ease back to 65 kts. Don't fight it, use the trim.

In a 7, if you are fast, you will use LOTS of runway. Be adaptive and keep you head out.

Remember, trimming is a verb, always occurring.
Click to expand...

I hear you and willing to adapt. It just seems weird. When I moved to here, I had the luck to rent and get signed off on so many different planes (9 total). My favorites are a little Cherokee 140 and a Bonanza S35. What I'm learning is the RV is not like others. For example, it looks like prop in on a RV when getting set up in the pattern but on a Bonanza fly the pattern at 2200 rpm and then prop in on short final.

As you can probably guess, adapting is not a big deal, just trying to learn what is a good practice before I go wheels up.

I guarantee you that I will be figuring out what speeds are!!! I just want a "peak" at what to expect!!!
 
Webb said:
For example, it looks like prop in on a RV when getting set up in the pattern but on a Bonanza fly the pattern at 2200 rpm and then prop in on short final.

As you can probably guess, adapting is not a big deal, just trying to learn what is a good practice before I go wheels up.
Click to expand...

Webb, I'll agree on the Bonanza issue. On my Bonanza, I would set the RPM's and MP and trim for airspeed and not touch anything until it was time to flair. You will find the RV to be much more slippery than the Bo but figure out your power settings for your desired airspeed, based on the data points presented in this thread, trim it (I trim a little nose down to release back pressure when the mains touch) and you should have no problem at all. When I was first learning to land Black Magic, I was using 75 KIAS on final only to find I could ease it back to 70 KIAS. Your descent rate at 70 KIAS will take some getting used to but just bring her in, don't flair too high and you will find your RV will settle right on in.

Have fun.
 
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Thanks Dana

I appreciate the feedback. Just a different way of slowing down a slick bird that I am not used too but doesn't sound difficult.

I'm going nuts right now. Went to the paint shop yesterday and it looks soooo good. They made my so so fiberlass work look awesome. I'm salivating waiting to assemble (less than 2 weeks according to the painter). So far all I can do is hanger fly it.

Speaking of hanger flying...how is Black Magic coming?
 
Webb,

Others might disagree, but I always try to keep the manifold pressure at least 15" until reaching the numbers just prior to base leg to keep the engine driving the prop, instead of the other way around. When you get low manifold pressures and higher rpms is when the rings start to dance around in the Lans and the chances of doing harm goes up. (my 2 cents)
 
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