Folks need to be careful making tight, in close turns. It's too easy to over crank the bank angle when oveshooting, resulting in a possible stall. I don't know if that what happened to this pilot, but it looks like like based upon a description I heard from a fellow pilot who witnessed the accident.
f1rocket said:...Folks need to be careful making tight, in close turns. It's too easy to over crank the bank angle when oveshooting, resulting in a possible stall.
Much easier to get in very serious trouble with too much rudder than too much bank angle.
Ditto that. I have a few hours in a friend's Europa and they really are a nice flying plane. When I read about the accident all I could think of was that he must have been distracted while making that turn and ...N112B said:For what it's worth, I've got over 300 hours in my Dad's Europa XS Monowheel and it's a GREAT flying airframe. Very docile and capable. 200MPH at 6GPH at 17.5K is pretty remarkable.
Do you recall whether there was any natural stall warning on the Europa, e.g. noticeable buffet?N112B said:For what it's worth, I've got over 300 hours in my Dad's Europa XS Monowheel and it's a GREAT flying airframe. Very docile and capable. 200MPH at 6GPH at 17.5K is pretty remarkable.
Kevin Horton said:Do you recall whether there was any natural stall warning on the Europa, e.g. noticeable buffet?
Kevin Horton said:It might also be interesting to experiment with leading edge stall strips. It might be possible to craft a stall strip that would send some disturbed air over the tail, without any real effect on the stall speed.
Do you recall whether there was any natural stall warning on the Europa, e.g. noticeable buffet?
mdredmond said:See very cool video here.
There is no magic to the recovery - any of those aircraft could do that recovery, if the pilot just flew the aircraft, and didn't panic. The aircraft doesn't know whether it is upright, or upside down. Reduce the angle of attack, roll to the nearest horizon, and smoothly recover from the dive without pulling so hard that you stall again. Use power as required to ensure you neither go past VNE (or the flap limit speed), nor stall again.N112B said:I'd like to see that recovery made in various type aircraft. (RV-7A, Europa, Luscombe, C-150, etc.)
Kevin Horton said:There is no magic to the recovery - any of those aircraft could do that recovery, if the pilot just flew the aircraft, and didn't panic.
AntiGravity said:Now, I don't have my license, only 23 hrs or so, and model flying experience, so I may not be best placed to make comment. BUT, has anyone ever compared low level stall/spin stats between gliders and powered aircraft? I'd be curious to know whether gliders have a better record (I'm surmising that the lack of power to back them up makes the average glider pilot a little more aware, but admittedly that's quite a leap)...
I think many people are missing the point here. If you are in a 45+ degree bank and pulling some G to tighten up a turn on final at say 500 feet, it doesn't matter what you are doing with the rudder when the aircraft stalls, you will be inverted in less than a second. Airspeed will be around 50 knots and the ground will be rushing up to meet the canopy. You will not be able to roll out until the airspeed builds because the airplane is still stalled.
Maybe in your airplane, but not in mine. Have you actually done accelerated stalls in your RV? Your mileage DEFINITELY may vary. Don't trust rumor. Trust your own flight testing in your own airplane.rv6ejguy said:If you are in a 45+ degree bank and pulling some G to tighten up a turn on final at say 500 feet, it doesn't matter what you are doing with the rudder when the aircraft stalls, you will be inverted in less than a second. Airspeed will be around 50 knots and the ground will be rushing up to meet the canopy. You will not be able to roll out until the airspeed builds because the airplane is still stalled.
David-aviator said:Real pilots who fly regularly do not unintentionally stall out in the traffic pattern or anywhere else.
This is the classical "I'm better than the idiot who just had that accident" rationalization that pilots use to justify why it is OK to continue doing the same thing the same way they've always done it. Many of the guys who crash thought they were pretty good too.Every year someone buys a farm going to or returning from OSH.
The prime reason is lack of proficiency. Real pilots who fly regularly do not unintentionally stall out in the traffic pattern or anywhere else.
David-aviator said:The prime reason is lack of proficiency. Real pilots who fly regularly do not unintentionally stall out in the traffic pattern or anywhere else.[/COLOR]
Kevin Horton said:This is the classical "I'm better than the idiot who just had that accident" rationalization that pilots use to justify why it is OK to continue doing the same thing the same way they've always done it. Many of the guys who crash thought they were pretty good too.
David-aviator said:Real pilots who fly regularly do not unintentionally stall out in the traffic pattern or anywhere else. dd
JoeLofton said:Now, if the skidding turn had been combined with the the high-activity approach and my speed had been slow and I was looking outside for traffic.....
Joe Lofton
RV-9A Wings
I want to say here that I love flying. I also want to emphasize that I greatly respect the pilots that I have come to call my friends. I value their input with respect and reverence whenever I am talking with one who has a great amount of experience to offer in his advice. However, a statement that starts with "Real pilots . . ." just makes my hair stand on end. What exactly is a "Real Pilot"? Is that opposite of a "Fake Pilot"? If so what constitutes a "Real Pilot", or for that matter, what constitues a "Fake Pilot"?David-aviator said:The prime reason is lack of proficiency. Real pilots who fly regularly do not unintentionally stall out in the traffic pattern or anywhere else.
You could be right, RVbySDI...but dammit I AM GOOD! I even SMELL good!RVbySDI said:That being the fact that we, as pilots, always look very ugly to others when we are wearing those hideous EGO glasses!
Nothing at all! However, the definition of steep turn seems to be somewhat subjectivemdredmond said:Larry, you got that right. A steep turn is a steep turn whether you're 500 feet up or 5000. Nothing fundamentally wrong with a coordinated steep turn...
Dave, I whole heartedly agree that balance is the key. It is just that too often our self confidence in our abilities as pilots tends to overshadow the humility part of the equation that keeps the ego in check and that leads to a healthy level of confidence. When this occurs our ego will overrule any balance we had and our behavior then borders on arrogance instead of confidence.David Johnson said:a measure of ego and confidence are key. Again...balance.
I think this is a common sentiment, but in my opinion it is wrong. By many accounts, Chuck Yeager is an arrogant arse, but no one would argue that he is a competent and safe pilot. I'd fly with him over a humble, generous guy that can't keep the ball centered any day, and not just because he's famous. He's a heck of a pilot.RVbySDI said:Competence + Arrogance ---> Dangerous Pilot