Oil door latch

[dhmoose]

I'm starting on the oil door and purchased the hidden hinge from Non-stop Aviation. It came with 1 camloc...but every picture I've seen of a -10 oil door has 2 Camlocs side-by-side opposite the hinge. Can someone confirm that 1 camloc placed in the center of the door is enough?

Thanks!

 

[jmates]

Thanks for asking this question, David

I've put just one latch on my oil door which has the hidden hinge. I did reinforce the door a lot with several layers of glass, but I'm concerned that the door may still pop open in flight.

Comments anyone?

 

[rleffler]

The correct answer is to use how many it takes to hold the door securely in place, which doesn't really answer your question.

I installed two latches, one forward and one aft. This was the only way I saw to ensure that the leading edge would be held firmly in place. My door wanted to sit slightly proud in a couple places due to the shape of the door. Putting the latches where I did holds the door perfectly flat.

I've seen folks install two latches on the opposite side of the hinge. I know of one 10 where air still lifts the door slightly in flight. This 10 has hundreds of hours, so I don't think it's a safety issue, but more of a cosmetic issue.

If you have a door that is perfectly shaped and extremely rigid, one latch may work just fine. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case on my 10.

While its not a finished picture, you can see the latches in the photos on this page.

http://www.mykitlog.com/users/displ...ler&project=260&category=0&log=154796&row=121

Bob

 

[Ron B.]

I had two opposite the hinge and it still popped open. I had to replace it with an alum. one. Like Bob said, if I were to start over I would not put them opposite the hinge, I would put one forward and one aft.

 

[Bill.Peyton]

I used the hidden hinge and two skybolt 1/4 turn fasteners on the left side fore and aft corners. I reinforced the inside of the door with piece of fiberglass I removed from the door cut out. When I am flying, I can see a very slight bit of bowing between the fasteners and the overall hinge lifting up. It's almost not noticeable unless I point it out to someone. Just shy of 100 hours and never come open.

 

[Wayne Gillispie]

I built per plans other than using the next longer stud. It does not flex or pop open. I would assume you would need two since Van's designed it that way.

 

[douglassmt]

Hidden hinge, Cessna lock

I used the hidden hinge and one Cessna type push button latch, reinforced the door with fiberglass on the inside. Mine still lifts slightly (1/8") around the edges in flight, but I've pushed on it and tested it on the ground and the latch is secure. After 245 hours it hasn't come open once so I'm pretty comfortable leaving it as is. It's just the pressure lifts it up slightly. If I did it again I would at least put two of the Cessna type latches, or go with Skybolts. Oh, and I riveted an aluminum strip for the Cessna latch to hold onto, and I think that makes a big difference on the latch security as opposed to it latching onto a piece of fiberglass.

 

[Space Cadet]

Mine works with one

I used just the one (opposite from hinge, centered) and it holds fine, but there does seem to be enough flex to let air leak out. Not a cooling problem for me though, and just starting to think about alternatives to seal it up.

Dwight

 

[MauleDriver]

(I posted this on Matronics today)
I lost track of the thread where this discussion was taking place but I said that I'd post a pic of some silicone strips I used somewhat successfully to reduce the oil door deformation in flight.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t459zmd5b3g1pue/Oil%20Door%203.jpg

You can see I used the hidden hinge and the two latches on the front and rear edges of the door. I used a piece of foam overlayed with some light wt glass cloth to stiffen the door. I later glommed some graphite strands on top to absolutely no effect. Please ignore those.

In flight, the door would bow outward along 3 of the 4 edges. Notably it did not bow out on the hinge edge since there is a stack of aluminum strips underneath hinge attach point.

I've since added the 3 strips of silicone you see in the pic. It's the same silicone I used for the engine baffling. They are bonded with high temp silicone which is just about the only thing that will bond to that stuff. These significantly reduced the bowing, especially along the left edge where the strip is continuous. Leakage around the latches appears to still allow some bowing along the front and rear edges. Not sure how to address that at this point. (Of course, the bowing is mainly an aesthetic thing and possibly a small cooling performance issue so it could just be left alone)

In the end, I'd like to fabricate a new, much stiffer door. A sandwiched carbon fiber piece should do the trick. I like the hinge. I'm not in love with the latches but not sure what I would use in their place. Camlocs might be good but would require a tool to operate.

FYI, I had inserted some small strips of stainless steel into the cowling as catches for the latches. For those of you worried about the door opening in flight, they flew open on me twice when one of the steel catches unbonded itself. The door opened but was securely retained by the hinge only. It turns out you can fly at moderate cruise speeds with the door hanging open. It didn't even appear to be under much stress.

 

[jimgreen]

The advantage of an aluminum door is that you can easily tweak it. A little extra curve can be added as necessary to hold it smooth in flight.

 

[MauleDriver]

(I posted this on Matronics today)
I lost track of the thread where this discussion was taking place but I said that I'd post a pic of some silicone strips I used somewhat successfully to reduce the oil door deformation in flight.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t459zmd5b3g1pue/Oil%20Door%203.jpg

You can see I used the hidden hinge and the two latches on the front and rear edges of the door. I used a piece of foam overlayed with some light wt glass cloth to stiffen the door. I later glommed some graphite strands on top to absolutely no effect. Please ignore those.

In flight, the door would bow outward along 3 of the 4 edges. Notably it did not bow out on the hinge edge since there is a stack of aluminum strips underneath hinge attach point.

I've since added the 3 strips of silicone you see in the pic. It's the same silicone I used for the engine baffling. They are bonded with high temp silicone which is just about the only thing that will bond to that stuff. These significantly reduced the bowing, especially along the left edge where the strip is continuous. Leakage around the latches appears to still allow some bowing along the front and rear edges. Not sure how to address that at this point. (Of course, the bowing is mainly an aesthetic thing and possibly a small cooling performance issue so it could just be left alone)

In the end, I'd like to fabricate a new, much stiffer door. A sandwiched carbon fiber piece should do the trick. I like the hinge. I'm not in love with the latches but not sure what I would use in their place. Camlocs might be good but would require a tool to operate.

FYI, I had inserted some small strips of stainless steel into the cowling as catches for the latches. For those of you worried about the door opening in flight, they flew open on me twice when one of the steel catches unbonded itself. The door opened but was securely retained by the hinge only. It turns out you can fly at moderate cruise speeds with the door hanging open. It didn't even appear to be under much stress.

 

[dhmoose]

Great thought guys!

Thanks for the input! I'm tempted to install 2 Skybolts (left over from my cowl work) fore and aft..or per plans. My only hesitation is the need for a Philips screwdriver every time I want to check the oil.

 

[miyu1975]

I installed two hartwell latches on my oil door. Just yesterday after 65 hours flight time the oil door popped open in flight. I quickly landed to close it and notice the forward latch had been compromised. So I added some packaging tape from the FBO on top of the door to seal it...which got me home. I will have to re-think my set up now.

 

[miyu1975]

Thanks for the input! I'm tempted to install 2 Skybolts (left over from my cowl work) fore and aft..or per plans. My only hesitation is the need for a Philips screwdriver every time I want to check the oil.

Get a nice leatherman and carry in your pocket and you will always have a Phillips screwdriver with you, plus many other tools you may need.

 

[n981ms]

carrying screw driver

Mine came with phillips camlocs. I "welded" a #2 phillips bit to a wire key ring and attached it to the aircraft keys.

Works for me.

 

[Rupester]

On the other hand ...

...you could go with the Cessna-style button and avoid the Phillips thing.
BTW, one thing I learned .... an advantage of an engine cooling plenum (a la Sam James or others) is it drastically reduces the pressure under the top of the cowl, and eliminates the likelihood of the door bowing or popping open. All that ram air pressure is routed down thru the cylinders thru the plenum.

 

[N427EF]

Fiberglass and Aluminum

And 2 latches for me.
The door is made up of the stock lid and a piece of .063 of aluminum.
It is easily shaped and glued in place with a little epoxy filler, then riveted when all is cured and hard. It makes for a low profile vs. the considerable build up of foam and filler stiffeners. This in turn allows easy placement of the latches and hinge arrangement. An piece of aluminum is added to reinforce the door catch and makes for a very solid door closure. There absolutely no bowing out in this door. I have made a point of paying attention to this part when I did Vne testing during phase 1.