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New RV-12 Builder ? Rivet Tool Question

J

John-G

Well Known Member
Well, I finally decided to stop setting on the fence. After many years of visiting the Van?s tent at Oshkosh and helping a friend pound together an RV-9A, I?ve decided it is now or never. An order for the RV-12 empennage and wing kits was placed earlier this week.

What sealed the deal for me was a visit to Schmetterling Aviation one rainy Saturday afternoon a few weeks ago. Dave was gracious enough to stop working on his RV-12 and took the time to show me around his production facility. After viewing Dave?s build, hearing his comments about the project and having the opportunity to look over Van?s instructions and drawings, I decided a 12 was on the horizon just in time for Spring thaw.

Before I ask my question, I want to express my gratitude to all the participants of this forum who have paved the way for those of us that are late starters. A big thanks to all of you who have discussed necessary tools, needed supplies, solutions for problems, along with helpful building tips. You have provided a wealth of knowledge for us new builders.

Now on to tools?. After reading the forums, I know I will need/want a pneumatic puller to accompany the hand puller for the pop rivets. However, I also want to procure a pneumatic squeezer as well ? I know it is not a necessary tool, but I want one none the less.

The question, for those of you finished with your RV-12 or far enough along with your build to comment is ? can all of the RV-12?s required squeezed rivets be done with a pneumatic squeezer with a 3? reach? I?m hoping to avoid purchasing a hand squeezer all together if possible.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

John
 
Welcome to VAF, John, and congratulations on ordering your kit. It sounds like you really did your homework, and maybe you've been lurking here awhile, so you know there's a great group of people here, eager to help. Someone experienced with the -12 will no doubt answer your question soon. Best wishes on your project.

--
Stephen
 
John-G said:
The question, for those of you finished with your RV-12 or far enough along with your build to comment is ? can all of the RV-12?s required squeezed rivets be done with a pneumatic squeezer with a 3? reach? I?m hoping to avoid purchasing a hand squeezer all together if possible.
John
Click to expand...

I have finished all sheet metal kits with no hand squeezer. Pneumatic squeezer only and loved the tool.
 
My experience was different from Larry, I used the pneumatic as well as TWO hand jobs, and would recommend the two hand ones. There is lots of dimpling and things the hand ones done easier in my opinion. Regardless, it saved time by not having to change dies so often. I still recommend a pneumatic and two hand jobs.
 
I do not think you can get by with just one yoke, at least we could not.

The Cleveland Main Squeeze is the best of the manual squeezers
 
DanWright said:
I do not think you can get by with just one yoke, at least we could not.

The Cleveland Main Squeeze is the best of the manual squeezers
Click to expand...

True, but the body of the Main Squeeze is wider than my 30-year-old squeezer, making it harder to get into some tight spots (like the rudder spar hinges). I love the Main Squeeze, but still have to use old one for some rivets.
 
John, I've built two RV's - an 8 and an 8A and am pretty close to finishing my RV12, and I've never owned a pneumatic squeezer. I've always used the Avery hand squeezer with two yokes; a 2" and a 4" "No hole" yoke.

The pneumatic squeezer is, in my opinion, really not needed for the RV12. There just aren't that many solid rivets to squeeze. I would highly recommend a pneumatic "pop" rivet gun, though.

Walt Shipley
 
Walt Shipley said:
John, I've built two RV's - an 8 and an 8A and am pretty close to finishing my RV12, and I've never owned a pneumatic squeezer. I've always used the Avery hand squeezer with two yokes; a 2" and a 4" "No hole" yoke.

The pneumatic squeezer is, in my opinion, really not needed for the RV12. There just aren't that many solid rivets to squeeze. I would highly recommend a pneumatic "pop" rivet gun, though.

Walt Shipley
Click to expand...
Walt,

What brand of compressor and pneumatic "pop" rivet guns would you recommend?

Any and all comments/recommendations by others also are appreciated.

:)
 
The pneumatic puller on the Cleaveland tool set works great. People have reported problems with the Harbor Freight ones. That puller and the Main Squeeze have done 100% of my riveting with no problems. My upright Sears air comp was fine. Smaller ones cycle more and the noise is annoying. The pneumatic puller runs at only about 40 pounds.

Everyone goes on and on about pneumatic drills. Yes, they make a cool sound and are small. But they do use a lot of air and cycle that noisy compressor. I got a Sears 2,500 RPM electric drill and used it with no problems. (And an 18V sometimes that is slower.) Sharp bits and boelube - particularly when you are drilling all those holes through the main fuselage member. There are a bunch more threads about extra tools you need and don't need. The Cleaveland set was great for me. You will also need a small electric screwdriver (not drill!) with a deburring but - you will use that a LOT.

I used a leather glove, the electric drill, and a small scotchbright wheel (about 1.5 inch diameter) to deburr the edges of all the large panel pieces. The gloved hand guides the wheel and keeps it in proper contact with the panel edge. Worked great, very controllable.

And, after you install a nutplate, run a tap through it. It will make your life much easier throughout the future! The FORGED tap set from Harbor Freight works well. Don't get the $10 cheaper non-forged set.
 
Driftdown said:
Walt,

What brand of compressor and pneumatic "pop" rivet guns would you recommend?

Any and all comments/recommendations by others also are appreciated.

:)
Click to expand...

The pneumatic puller that came with the -12 tool kit I got from Isham is so good that I can't imagine it could be improved upon. I don't know who makes it for them. In fact, the whole tool kit has been quite good, and a bit cheaper than Avery.

The compressor I use is a 30-year-old 5-hp Craftsman with a regulator. If I had to buy another, I'd get a vertical tank model.
 
I am done with the metal work and I did everything with the 3" yoke. It requires that you try different approaches on some of the rivets but it is doable. I started with a simple hand squeezer before getting tired on -4 rivets and bought a pneumatic squeezer. I still used the hand tool occasionally as the pneumatic one is quite heavy and not a comfortable to use on a set of holes to dimple.
I would buy this combination again, a simple hand squeezer and a pneumatic one. I shared one yoke with them which is ok if you want to save some green. Just make sure you get the quick release bolts to attach the yoke.
What I spent money on though was an adjustable stem for the pneumatic squeezer and some more dies in different diameters to get into those hard to reach places.
 
John, I would recommend the "heavy duty" gun sold by Avery ($99) or Aircraft tool & supply ($95). Brown tool probably has a similar product. I
would also recommend a pneumatic cleco gun, you'll be installing/removing lots of clecos during the build and the air cleco gun makes it a lot easier on your writsts and forearms.

I just use an oiless Sears air compressor. It was the top of the line oiless and is still going strong after many years of use. It is NOISY though. If you can, it would be nice to have it located outside your shop in it's own enclosure. But, I just endure it.

Hope this helps,

Walt
 
We are basically finished with our first RV-12 (many more to come!) as a school project. We had at our disposal squeezers from Avery, a Main Squeeze, and a pneumatic. Due to safety concerns, I didn't let the students use the pneumatic until they had some experience, but it was handy when starting the fuselage. The kids greatly appreciated the Main Squeeze and would take it over the pneumatic or Avery almost all the time. The Main Squeeze and pneumatic are my personal tools. Everything else was from Avery, including the pneumatic puller. We have two of those. Personally, I don't think you need a pneumatic squeezer, but it is your money. As a second squeezer, anything would serve you well-don't spring for a pneumatic and Main Squeeze. I do think a smaller yoke (maybe 1 1/2") will come in handy on a few holes, especially on the tail cone and fuse. We are specifying those also for future school builds. My pick, a Main Squeeze and two yokes, 3" and 1 1/2".

BTW, welcome to VAF, and congratulations on your choice. It will be a fun build.

Bob
 
My two cents...

I am pretty far now in the finishing kit and looking back, I think the Avery tool kit for RV-12 is pretty good. It's shortcoming is in the drill bits where I found a handful missing (probably because Avery did not follow-up on VAN's updates). Not a big deal but always frustrating when you start a task to have to postpone it until you get the right bit.
Regarding rivet tools is where Avery gets a good mark: their manual rivet puller is a must because it has a tiny head that goes in tight spaces. Although I did most of the pop rivets with the HF pneumatic, its head is too fat for some jobs.
For squeezing the Avery squeezer is OK for 3's rivets but the 4's need lots of strength and I had to make handle extensions for better leverage (worked well). There is a couple of places I remember where the reach of the yoke was short and I had to borrow a 5" one (not worth buying one for a handful of rivets). In the first phase of the empennage kit I was close to buy a pneumatic squeezer (until I extended the manual squeezer handles) but I am glad now that I did not do it: not enough big solid rivets to justify the investment (small 3's rivets squeeze like ripe tomatoes!)
 
I must admit it has been a fun build! I have thoroughly enjoyed this build from day one. My only unhappiness has been when I was waiting for some part or supply to get it going again.
 
DonFromTX said:
I must admit it has been a fun build! I have thoroughly enjoyed this build from day one. My only unhappiness has been when I was waiting for some part or supply to get it going again.
Click to expand...

It's the problem when going E-AB, Don. Had you decided to stay E-LSA you would have waited as much but you would know why! :D
 
Thanks

Many thanks to all who have offered their best wishes, experience and opinions. It's been very helpful.

I?ve made plans procure a used pneumatic squeezer with a 3? yoke that is in good working condition. So the collection of Tools-O-Plenty begins. I will try to do the build without a hand squeezer but based on posts here, the Cleveland is a good call should I find myself needing a hand unit.

I know from personal experience while working on 9A wings your hands can get **** tired using Cleco pliers by the time you are done skinning a wing. Any suggestions for a brand of pneumatic Cleco tool that works well and is comfortable to use?

Thanks for the input,

John
 
For me the pneumatic cleco tool was a disappointment. It seems to cramp my hand more than the hand pliers does. I THINK I got it at aircraft spruce for around $50-60, it is light, fast, and very efficient though.
I would strongly recommend you get a hand rivet squeezer in addition to the pneumatic. For some of the fine work dimpling and small rivets, the pneumatic is pretty clunky and hard to hold in position due to its weight, as I said previously, I had TWO hand jobs and that worked very well for me. Also, you will be changing dies pretty often which takes time as well. I found I liked the hand job far better for the really small rivets also.
As reported here, your mileage may vary - a lot!
 
RV-12 specific tools

I just ordered my RV-12 Emp & Wing kits. I built a -7A so I already have most of the tools I need but I still have a couple of questions.

I have an inexpensive pneumatic Pop Rivet puller, it worked very well for the pulled rivets on my 7A. Is it worth investing in the Pneumatic Rivet Puller that Avery sells http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=7891 ?

I have a DRDT-2 dimpler, but I have it stored away right now. How much dimpling is there when building a 12? Since space is alway an issue, is there enough dimpling to justify using the DRDT-2?
 
Rick_A said:
I just ordered my RV-12 Emp & Wing kits. I built a -7A so I already have most of the tools I need but I still have a couple of questions.

I have an inexpensive pneumatic Pop Rivet puller, it worked very well for the pulled rivets on my 7A. Is it worth investing in the Pneumatic Rivet Puller that Avery sells http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=7891 ?

I have a DRDT-2 dimpler, but I have it stored away right now. How much dimpling is there when building a 12? Since space is alway an issue, is there enough dimpling to justify using the DRDT-2?
Click to expand...

Hey Rick, great to meet you when I was @ Walt's awhile back picking up my second Dynon screen!

I've built my entire -12 with a $35 pneumatic puller from Harbor Freight. It has NEVER missed a lick. I wouldn't invest in anything other than the one you already have!

I also had a C-frame style dimpler, and never pulled it out of storage for the RV-12. Not needed! The pneumatic squeezer is great for the few rivets you actually need to set, along with any dimpling you'll need to do. If you (or Walt) don't have a pneumatic squeezer, that's where to spend your money. If you already have one, you are ready to go!

**And congrat's on ordering your -12!!!! **
Take care,
 
That will be a savings

Gary, Thanks for the info. That will save me a few bucks. I'm trying to do this one on a budget.

The only way I could get my wife to let me build again was to convince her that building a 12 as an E-LSA would be a "fixed cost" deal except for a few tools and shop supplies.

Looking forward to seeing you at our hanger again ... flying in in your 12 :)
 
fixed cost?

Rick_A said:
Gary, Thanks for the info. That will save me a few bucks. I'm trying to do this one on a budget.

The only way I could get my wife to let me build again was to convince her that building a 12 as an E-LSA would be a "fixed cost" deal except for a few tools and shop supplies.

Looking forward to seeing you at our hanger again ... flying in in your 12 :)
Click to expand...

"Fixed cost deal"? Ooooooh.....that's good
And "a few tools"? You're my new hero! <grin>
 
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