Just ordered RV-12 empennage. Excited but nervous about building in my basement. Have a nice shop; well lit, good bench, vice, etc. but no experience with sheet metal. Need tools as affordable as possible. Would like to complete tail, at least begin next section this winter. Open to all advice....Thank you.
Van's Air Force
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new builder
- Thread starter JRo
- Start date
Jim,
You should look up John Peck, he is in Gloversville, NY and that's pretty close to you. He built a nice 12 in a very small space and is now flying it.
http://www.mykitlog.com/BigJohn/
Tony
Welcome 
MartySantic
Well Known Member
Welcome.
There is a wealth of information in the forum and in the blogs. Feel free to ask ASK ANY question.
There is no such thing as a stupid question here!!!
Send me your e-mail address via a PM or e-mail and would be happy to send you the tool list I have compiled.
There is a wealth of information in the forum and in the blogs. Feel free to ask ASK ANY question.
There is no such thing as a stupid question here!!!
Send me your e-mail address via a PM or e-mail and would be happy to send you the tool list I have compiled.
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I would add to the advice of the other folks here that I would buy a band saw, drill press and grinding wheel with a Scotchbrite wheel if you don't have those in your shop yet. Also would recommend two pneumatic rivet pullers. They are relatively cheap and if you get a splitter for your compressor you will find having two very handy when you get to the wing skins. The other thing I tell everyone is to check out the Homebuilt Help DVD set if you haven't already. I like to watch them before I start assembly to get a feel for what it should look like and to get helpful hints. I then have my laptop with them on in my hangar as I am building in case I need to reference them. I find it much easier to see how someone else does the assembly described in the manual. Van's manuals are tops but there are some cases of where it just can be a bit tricky to figure out what they mean (or at least for me). The videos really help with this.
Carl
Carl
Welcome to fold. Its fun and friendly.
In terms of tools, read the plans. That is a 90% solution set for the entire project. Starting small and networking with fellow RV-12, EAA, and other builders will get you good advice, an extra hand now and then, and the loan of tools when needed.
My list for you would include
Snips
Good drill bits (not HF/Loews/Home Depot cr*p)
Scotchbrite pads
Scotchbrite wheel
Manual Rivet squeezer (I am a big fan of the Cleaveland high end one)
Squeezer Die (a bunch)
Set of needle files
Deburring tool with bits
Counter sinks
Deburring hex bit
Boelube
I assume you already have a good grinder, drill. Drill press and band saw would also be helpful, even desktop versions
My favor vendor is Cleavland Tools (http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/), though all of the major players are of good quality (Avery...)
My blog and many others are available to you here, and we all have opinions on just about everything.
In terms of tools, read the plans. That is a 90% solution set for the entire project. Starting small and networking with fellow RV-12, EAA, and other builders will get you good advice, an extra hand now and then, and the loan of tools when needed.
My list for you would include
Snips
Good drill bits (not HF/Loews/Home Depot cr*p)
Scotchbrite pads
Scotchbrite wheel
Manual Rivet squeezer (I am a big fan of the Cleaveland high end one)
Squeezer Die (a bunch)
Set of needle files
Deburring tool with bits
Counter sinks
Deburring hex bit
Boelube
I assume you already have a good grinder, drill. Drill press and band saw would also be helpful, even desktop versions
My favor vendor is Cleavland Tools (http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/), though all of the major players are of good quality (Avery...)
My blog and many others are available to you here, and we all have opinions on just about everything.
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Piotr G
Active Member
Jim,
Hey, welcome! Finally, a fellow 12 builder in my neck of the woods! Call me to set up a visit. My shop is now full of my next project - restoration of a 1946 Cessna 120, but would be glad to show you around. And - we could do some flying in my '12.
I would also be glad to do some on-site mentoring when you get to some of the trickier steps in your build.
John
Cell 518-774-4898
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
The "best" is ALL of them! I ordered all the kits at once (except powerplant and avionics) and was glad I did. Waiting times for the next kit was far longer than the time it takes to complete the last one, and I did not wat to lose interest while waiting months for the next kit.
In your case you face not only that, but a price increase as well.
www.homebuilthelp.com will get you to the DVD source.
In your case you face not only that, but a price increase as well.
www.homebuilthelp.com will get you to the DVD source.
I highly advise the Cleaveland tool set - because it also includes their "Main Squeeze" - the best rivet squeezer. Even folks that buy other tool sets get that one. Unless you have weak hands you don't need a pneumatic SQUEEZER (not a puller - you need a pneumatic puller and a hand puller.) You should search the forum, there are lots of threads specifically about getting started and tool sets. A small bench bandsaw with a metal cutting blade is a must.
Jim,
I built the wing kit after the tail. The tail kit goes together quickly and is relatively easy. The wing kit breaks you into a little more complexity. From what I've seen of the fuselage kit so far there is again more complexity. I agree too that besides the price increase the waiting time is another good reason to order your next kit now. It took me not too long to finish the tail kit and I delayed my flaperons which I just finished as I took delivery of the fuselage kit. One more tool I couldn't live without is the Main Squeeze hand rivet squeezers. Just be careful when you release pressure with them as they can really snap loose on you. I ended up buying a cheap rivet gun and bucking bar set too as it is just easier for some of the longer solid rivets. Not required but I just found it easier.
Carl
I built the wing kit after the tail. The tail kit goes together quickly and is relatively easy. The wing kit breaks you into a little more complexity. From what I've seen of the fuselage kit so far there is again more complexity. I agree too that besides the price increase the waiting time is another good reason to order your next kit now. It took me not too long to finish the tail kit and I delayed my flaperons which I just finished as I took delivery of the fuselage kit. One more tool I couldn't live without is the Main Squeeze hand rivet squeezers. Just be careful when you release pressure with them as they can really snap loose on you. I ended up buying a cheap rivet gun and bucking bar set too as it is just easier for some of the longer solid rivets. Not required but I just found it easier.
Carl
I ordered the Cleveland tools RV-12 tool kit and it had most of the things I have needed including the skinny dimple die you will need for tight spots. I also purchased an additional cleco pliers. If you plan to have help working on the wings or other parts it is great to have a cheap extra pair of these. As you can see there are many opinions on things like rivet guns etc. I am a first time builder and this forum has really helped me. Also if you haven't taken it, the EAA RV Builders weekend course is great for initial sheet metal instruction as well as an intro into how Van's does their plans.
Carl
Carl
MartySantic
Well Known Member
The tools from Avery Tools are very good. Bob Avery stands behind each and every one of them should you have ANY problem. The RV-12 tool set that Avery offers is most complete. Take a look at their website.
engineerofsorts
Well Known Member
Cleaveland vs Avery
Having used both, one marked difference to me between Avery and Cleaveland tools is the hand rivet squeezer. The Cleaveland "Main Squeeze" has a camming mechanism which seems to me to make the squeezing much easier. I'm sure this will kick of a debate, however... Bob Avery and his crew are very nice to work with, though...
Having used both, one marked difference to me between Avery and Cleaveland tools is the hand rivet squeezer. The Cleaveland "Main Squeeze" has a camming mechanism which seems to me to make the squeezing much easier. I'm sure this will kick of a debate, however... Bob Avery and his crew are very nice to work with, though...
Necessary tools...
I could recommend two 'butt-saver" tools; a Dremel-type tool, and something called a 'snake'. It's a flexible shaft drill with an 'L-head' at the end, for drilling in really tight places and drilling out rivets that you might screw up on...speaking from personal experience. Just ask George, my building partner.
Meade Duckworth
N612RV kit # 16
I could recommend two 'butt-saver" tools; a Dremel-type tool, and something called a 'snake'. It's a flexible shaft drill with an 'L-head' at the end, for drilling in really tight places and drilling out rivets that you might screw up on...speaking from personal experience. Just ask George, my building partner.
Meade Duckworth
N612RV kit # 16
I agree about the Main Squeeze, and there are a few unique tools from every vendor that are great to have. For example, I really prefer the Visegrip based edge break tool, but there two places on the 12 where you have to use the disc tool.
Winter has not been so long that we need to start a "Tool War" along side of Primer War (did anyone else hear the cute comment about that on the new Vans phone system?)
MacPara
Well Known Member
The poor creator of this thread just said "Hi" as a new builder and you guys just swamp him with a reiteration of what additional tools he might need. I'm sure he would find this through the search engine under a much better named topic than "new builder" as I remember we have extensively discussed these additional tools beyond Van's tools list and we also compared Avery's and Cleveland toolkits to the point where it just "ain't funny anymore".
So, let me say Hi to the new builder and refrain from any unsolicited suggestions. I hope you'll enjoy the build!
So, let me say Hi to the new builder and refrain from any unsolicited suggestions. I hope you'll enjoy the build!
gblwy
Well Known Member
Welcome
The last post just beat me. Our newcomer said he didn't want to spend too much on tools and we get 20 posts telling him all the extras to buy.
Start with the recommended minimum from the Vans plans. Expensive tools like band saws are unnecessary. The cheapest pillar drill is just fine for the number of time you will use it.
As many folk have said before "you can never have too many tools" but if you are working to a budget you don't need the best, or two of everything...
Cheers...Keith
The last post just beat me. Our newcomer said he didn't want to spend too much on tools and we get 20 posts telling him all the extras to buy.
Start with the recommended minimum from the Vans plans. Expensive tools like band saws are unnecessary. The cheapest pillar drill is just fine for the number of time you will use it.
As many folk have said before "you can never have too many tools" but if you are working to a budget you don't need the best, or two of everything...
Cheers...Keith
Hmmm - doing this kit without a small bandsaw is an exercise in masochism. A deburring BIT for a power screwdriver (not a drill) will also be a most-used tool. An electric high-speed drill (Sears, not expensive, 2500 rpm) will work just fine if you do not have a pneumatic. I actually preferred the electric to the pneumatic to avoid the noisy air compressor cycle. The Harbor freight tap and die set is a good choice - pay the extra $10 for the forged set, not the cheaper one.
Advice is like a drink. It only affects you if you take it. I am SO thankful for the advice that was waiting for me on this forum and the SEARCH function is invaluable. A couple of days spent doing NOTHING but reading this forum would save more than that during the build! Also reading some of the great construction blogs one will find mentioned - reading Schmetterling and Marty's was what made the decision for me to build the kit - because I could see that experienced people had already dealt with almost all of the issues.
Advice is like a drink. It only affects you if you take it. I am SO thankful for the advice that was waiting for me on this forum and the SEARCH function is invaluable. A couple of days spent doing NOTHING but reading this forum would save more than that during the build! Also reading some of the great construction blogs one will find mentioned - reading Schmetterling and Marty's was what made the decision for me to build the kit - because I could see that experienced people had already dealt with almost all of the issues.
from the new guy
Thanks fellas. I really do appreciate all advice, and yes, I asked for it. First of all, I will consider everything I'm told. I am on a shoestring, and lots of this stuff is expensive, especially for a first-time (most likely one-time) user.
I pondered long and hard, splurged, and purchased the Cleveland Tools RV-12 toolkit ($1300). I have a man-sized compressor, drill press, vice and grinder already. Sounds like I will have several of the highly recommended items (such as the "Main Squeeze" and Scothbrite pads) when my toolkit arrives. So, let the fun begin! My empennage arrives Wednesday. I will beg, borrow or steal (or maybe even purchase) additional tools as my journey unfolds. Things like bandsaws are out of my reach at the moment.
I've already talked with John Peck (finished -12 near here) and will make the 20 minute flight in my ol' 172 to see him and his RV-12 some sunny day real soon.
Jim
Thanks fellas. I really do appreciate all advice, and yes, I asked for it. First of all, I will consider everything I'm told. I am on a shoestring, and lots of this stuff is expensive, especially for a first-time (most likely one-time) user.
I pondered long and hard, splurged, and purchased the Cleveland Tools RV-12 toolkit ($1300). I have a man-sized compressor, drill press, vice and grinder already. Sounds like I will have several of the highly recommended items (such as the "Main Squeeze" and Scothbrite pads) when my toolkit arrives. So, let the fun begin! My empennage arrives Wednesday. I will beg, borrow or steal (or maybe even purchase) additional tools as my journey unfolds. Things like bandsaws are out of my reach at the moment.
I've already talked with John Peck (finished -12 near here) and will make the 20 minute flight in my ol' 172 to see him and his RV-12 some sunny day real soon.
Jim
Jim,
It was great talking with you on the phone. If some of the specialized tools don't come in the Cleaveland set check with me. For instance, some of the tools used for plumbing the fuel lines were almost one-time use items and I still have them hanging on my wall.
Looking forward to your visit.
John
It was great talking with you on the phone. If some of the specialized tools don't come in the Cleaveland set check with me. For instance, some of the tools used for plumbing the fuel lines were almost one-time use items and I still have them hanging on my wall.
Looking forward to your visit.
John
I wanted to share with all of the new and Future RV12 builders a tool that assisted me by cutting down the build time, reducing the OOPs errors, and enhancing the building process. I purchase the video series from HomebuiltHELP a few months ago. These videos have allowed me to cut the build time down significantly. I still go by the Vans plans to the letter, but I read the section first, watch the video, then read again, and then build. This has been a great tool, at least for me. I do recommend it to anyone building in the future.
I just ordered the Rotax video and got to talk to John, he shared some of his experiences building the 12 on the video.
[email protected]
I just ordered the Rotax video and got to talk to John, he shared some of his experiences building the 12 on the video.
[email protected]
At first I thought "Wait - bandsaws are cheap!" because I bought my little 9 inch benchtop Delta bandsaw for about $60 a few years ago. Perfect for the RV-12. But then I checked and the cheapest I can find is $124! I would recommend hitting the pawn shops and Goodwill and watching for big-box-store sales, and those "trucks full of tools" sales that come by occasionally. It will do such a better, less frustrating job than a hacksaw and you will use it a LOT.
