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More RV-7 Aerobatic Practice

Darren S

Well Known Member
Here are a couple of vids I made today as I was on my way out to the Aerobatic Practice area.

The aero vid is considerably shorter than my initial attempt. I decided to keep the helmet cam as it shows more than a glare shield mounted one.

My instructor stayed on the ground today and gave me coaching on presentation. I'm still taking too long between manoeuvres. With the speed of the RV it gets out of the box quickly. Basically finish the manouevre, establish wings level and then start the next one. Don't dilly dally !!

I tried to apply some of the advice I received via this forum, Thanks Eric. Hopefully you will chime in here also.

Quicker spin entry, established better lines on the 1/2 Cuban and tried to make the roll more axial.

All advice is welcome.

Thanks,

Darren

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH1dc35uPL8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RruicfZBD7Y&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
 
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Nice video and flying

Darren,
Very nice video, and the comment about too long between maneuvers will be more apparent when you have an actual acro box to practice in. You'll also find a little difference in the time between maneuvers depending on whether you're up wind or down wind. Since the RVs don't have symmetrical wings, the nose on the roll will be above and below the horizon to remain level like a Decathlon. The roll looked good to me. Very nice spin too. My RV will not spin well to the right. To consistently align the 45 and vertical lines, I have a sight on my canopy that looks like an "X" and two vertical lines. Since my head shifts going up compared to going down, I needed the two vertical lines. The lines are the stick on tinted auto windshield lightest tint (32 percent).
wingtipfences008.jpg
Good luck in your next competition, and GREAT to see another RV competing in IAC.
Bill McLean
RV-4 Slider
 
Darren- do you have an inverted oil system? Just curious because I do not on my -6, and don't stick the 45 downline on my Cuban 8's for fear of dumping oil.
 
Hey Bill,

I like that idea of taping some lines on the canopy to help with the 45 degree angles. I find that sometimes the first 45 degree upline is too steep. I'm just eyeballing it but a line would be helpful. I think I will try that.

Jim, I don't have an inverted oil system. I use 5 quarts of oil in my engine. She runs fine with this and there is minimal oil blow out. I tried 6 quarts once and there was literally a quart of oil dripping off my tailwheel when I landed. The negative G is just momentary so I doubt if it does anything to the engine. I have an Advanced 3500 EFIS and the oil pressure doesn't change at all.

Sustain the negative G and then I'm sure there could be trouble long term but as quick as it is, I don't think so.

Glad you liked the vid. It was fun making.

Darren
 
Good eye, it is a glare shield from Abby at Flightline Interiors. It fits very well and looks great too.

Darren
 
Darren,

Looking good. You made some improvements over the last one. As you have probably noticed, staying in the box can be harder than doing the sequence! As Bill mentioned, you're spending a good bit of time between figures. There's no requirement for this, but in general, you want an even rhythm to your sequence. But by far, box position trumps this rhythm I mention, which may or may not even affect your presentation score, which is an overall (subjective) impression of your whole flight, and not nearly as important as the scores for each figure. Stay in the box first, then work on presentation. Between figures, you should always drive across the box as long as you need for box position regardless. As Bill mentioned, this can be affected by whether you're going upwind or downwind. But be careful not to spend too little time between figures. You want to give at least a couple seconds between figures for the judges to figure out a score and call it to the recorder.

You can do opposing wing wags before figure 1 as you did, but it's more traditional to do them in the same direction. But it really doesn't matter. Capping off the 45 upline, you didn't float as long as before, but I think you could still tighten this up by pushing over at a slower speed. If this causes too long of a 45 line, just enter slower. What speeds are you entering the upline and then pushing over? It also looks like you are pushing over to cruise flight attitude after the 45 up. In general, when capping off a 45 line such as this, you should be slow enough that only a 30 degree or so pitch change should be needed, given that your speed after pushing over should be slow enough that you are flying at an attitude noticeably nose higher than what you'd see in cruise flight. Not sure if your attitude looked like this because you pitched over too far and sunk a little, or that you still had a good bit of speed. In any case, focus on your altimeter as your cap off the 45 all the way to the spin, to make sure you don't settle.

In my experience, spin entry in RVs can be hard to get clean and consistent. You definitely didn't force the entry, but it appeared the plane rolled about 90 degrees before any noticeable yaw developed. Again, it's hard to do consistently, but you want simultaneous nose drop, yaw, and roll. Do you always spin to the right? Different planes can have different spin characteristics depending on the direction. The Pitts for example, enters a spin more crisply to the left, but naturally spins at a steadier rate to the right. A spin to the right will be a little more nose down than a spin to the left due to propellor gyroscopics. Play around with entries in both directions. You can also experiment with aileron inputs in both directions (momentary or continuous) to get cleaner entries and/or control the rotation better. Every airplane is different and you just have to play with it. Some airplanes tend to break into the spin, and then slow down or hang up after a half turn or so. In this case, and depending on the airplane, the rotation can be smoothed out by unloading the stick very slightly after a half turn or so. In yours, it appears the opposite is the case...that it breaks off slowly, then snaps very quickly into a significantly higher rotation rate. Again, try playing with aileron inputs to see if you can smooth this out. But this is "style" value only. The hard judging criteria is on the entry and recovery/downline, not on evenness, or rate of spin rotation...unless of course the spin momentarily stops completely. It's a little hard to tell your pitch attitude, but since I didn't see a significant pitchover as the spin stopped, I assume you are still positive on the downline. You just need some ground critiquing to get this set. Learn what vertical lines up and down look like by looking at your wingtip, and glance at it every time you stop a spin to see if you've nailed it.

You floated the top of the Half-Cuban much better, and actually drew an inverted line before the roll. You'll still need some ground critiquing to ensure the 5/8 loop before the roll is round. Before and after the roll, I think you're spending the minimum amount of time needed to show the judges that you're actually drawing a line. But it appears that the duration of your 45 line before and after the roll is the same. This may result in a "long after" (the roll) call from the judges. If you can hold the 45 inverted line just a moment longer it should be just about perfect. But if what you're doing now looks even from the ground, that's all that matters. I can't tell much about the accuracy of your 45 line (whether it's steep or shallow) from the video, so you'll need help from the ground for this.

One thing you can do to make your flying present better for the judges is to set and break your lines a little more crisply. For example, during the half-cuban, about 10 degrees before reaching the inverted 45 attitude, accelerate your pull a bit to accentuate the stop on the 45 line. But keep in mind you don't want to accelerate your pull so soon as to make it appear that you are pinching or "segmenting" the looping portion. This technique makes the figure look crisper and also makes it more obvious to the judges when you have set your line, so that they can better judge your line lengths. The same concept for breaking a line - make a quick (but smooth) stick movement to break the line, then steady around the radius of the pull to the next line.

The loop looks better, but appears you still need to accelerate your pull more at the bottom to keep the last quarter round. It also appeared you may have segmented it over the top, meaning a section of the loop deviated from round. Looked like the pitch rate slowed down for a moment and may have been a little uneven. Hard to do much more critiquing via video on this figure. Just need some ground critiquing.

The turn looked good. Looked like you may have been using less than full aileron rolling into the turn. Most people take advantage of full roll rate here for crispness, but there is no judging criteria related to roll rate as long as you roll in at the same rate that you roll out, which you did. Not necessarily any reason to change this.

Roll still looks pretty good. I can see that you pulled the nose up slightly before rolling to cheat a little. :) Judges might see that. RV's have a good enough roll rate that negative G exposure during a true level roll is minimal. Try rolling from level flight next time. You can make a very slight nose up pull, but integrate this with the application of aileron so that the judges don't see a pitch up before the roll starts. I can see a noticeable change in roll rate during the last quarter of the roll compared to the roll rate passing through inverted. If you watch the video, you'll see that the roll rate increases during the last quarter of the roll. Remember what I mentioned about roll rate speeding up when rudder in the same direction as the aileron is re-introduced? This requires a slight reduction in aileron. But honestly, roll rate deviations are the last thing judges will pick up on when grading a roll. Mostly they are looking to see that you didn't climb, settle or "dish" (nose pulled off heading). There's a concept called "load shedding", meaning the judges can only concentrate on so much, and that some things can slip by. You can actually use this to your advantage in some ways. :) There's a whole other side to this competition stuff that involves things you can get away with, things you can cheat to your advantage, and also things that you might NOT necessarily want to fly perfectly in order to make them look perfect. :)

Oh, and do two wing wags at the end of the sequence. :) Tighten up that box position, and I think you'll be in great shape to put up some nice flights at the contest.
 
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Excellent critique! Bravo!!! See you thu


Darren,

Looking good. You made some improvements over the last one. As you have probably noticed, staying in the box can be harder than doing the sequence! As Bill mentioned, you're spending a good bit of time between figures. There's no requirement for this, but in general, you want an even rhythm to your sequence. But by far, box position trumps this rhythm I mention, which may or may not even affect your presentation score, which is an overall (subjective) impression of your whole flight, and not nearly as important as the scores for each figure. Stay in the box first, then work on presentation. Between figures, you should always drive across the box as long as you need for box position regardless. As Bill mentioned, this can be affected by whether you're going upwind or downwind. But be careful not to spend too little time between figures. You want to give at least a couple seconds between figures for the judges to figure out a score and call it to the recorder.

You can do opposing wing wags before figure 1 as you did, but it's more traditional to do them in the same direction. But it really doesn't matter. Capping off the 45 upline, you didn't float as long as before, but I think you could still tighten this up by pushing over at a slower speed. If this causes too long of a 45 line, just enter slower. What speeds are you entering the upline and then pushing over? It also looks like you are pushing over to cruise flight attitude after the 45 up. In general, when capping off a 45 line such as this, you should be slow enough that only a 30 degree or so pitch change should be needed, given that your speed after pushing over should be slow enough that you are flying at an attitude noticeably nose higher than what you'd see in cruise flight. Not sure if your attitude looked like this because you pitched over too far and sunk a little, or that you still had a good bit of speed. In any case, focus on your altimeter as your cap off the 45 all the way to the spin, to make sure you don't settle.

In my experience, spin entry in RVs can be hard to get clean and consistent. You definitely didn't force the entry, but it appeared the plane rolled about 90 degrees before any noticeable yaw developed. Again, it's hard to do consistently, but you want simultaneous nose drop, yaw, and roll. Do you always spin to the right? Different planes can have different spin characteristics depending on the direction. The Pitts for example, enters a spin more crisply to the left, but naturally spins at a steadier rate to the right. A spin to the right will be a little more nose down than a spin to the left due to propellor gyroscopics. Play around with entries in both directions. You can also experiment with aileron inputs in both directions (momentary or continuous) to get cleaner entries and/or control the rotation better. Every airplane is different and you just have to play with it. Some airplanes tend to break into the spin, and then slow down or hang up after a half turn or so. In this case, and depending on the airplane, the rotation can be smoothed out by unloading the stick very slightly after a half turn or so. In yours, it appears the opposite is the case...that it breaks off slowly, then snaps very quickly into a significantly higher rotation rate. Again, try playing with aileron inputs to see if you can smooth this out. But this is "style" value only. The hard judging criteria is on the entry and recovery/downline, not on evenness, or rate of spin rotation...unless of course the spin momentarily stops completely. It's a little hard to tell your pitch attitude, but since I didn't see a significant pitchover as the spin stopped, I assume you are still positive on the downline. You just need some ground critiquing to get this set. Learn what vertical lines up and down look like by looking at your wingtip, and glance at it every time you stop a spin to see if you've nailed it.

You floated the top of the Half-Cuban much better, and actually drew an inverted line before the roll. You'll still need some ground critiquing to ensure the 5/8 loop before the roll is round. Before and after the roll, I think you're spending the minimum amount of time needed to show the judges that you're actually drawing a line. But it appears that the duration of your 45 line before and after the roll is the same. This may result in a "long after" (the roll) call from the judges. If you can hold the 45 inverted line just a moment longer it should be just about perfect. But if what you're doing now looks even from the ground, that's all that matters. I can't tell much about the accuracy of your 45 line (whether it's steep or shallow) from the video, so you'll need help from the ground for this.

One thing you can do to make your flying present better for the judges is to set and break your lines a little more crisply. For example, during the half-cuban, about 10 degrees before reaching the inverted 45 attitude, accelerate your pull a bit to accentuate the stop on the 45 line. But keep in mind you don't want to accelerate your pull so soon as to make it appear that you are pinching or "segmenting" the looping portion. This technique makes the figure look crisper and also makes it more obvious to the judges when you have set your line, so that they can better judge your line lengths. The same concept for breaking a line - make a quick (but smooth) stick movement to break the line, then steady around the radius of the pull to the next line.

The loop looks better, but appears you still need to accelerate your pull more at the bottom to keep the last quarter round. It also appeared you may have segmented it over the top, meaning a section of the loop deviated from round. Looked like the pitch rate slowed down for a moment and may have been a little uneven. Hard to do much more critiquing via video on this figure. Just need some ground critiquing.

The turn looked good. Looked like you may have been using less than full aileron rolling into the turn. Most people take advantage of full roll rate here for crispness, but there is no judging criteria related to roll rate as long as you roll in at the same rate that you roll out, which you did. Not necessarily any reason to change this.

Roll still looks pretty good. I can see that you pulled the nose up slightly before rolling to cheat a little. :) Judges might see that. RV's have a good enough roll rate that negative G exposure during a true level roll is minimal. Try rolling from level flight next time. You can make a very slight nose up pull, but integrate this with the application of aileron so that the judges don't see a pitch up before the roll starts. I can see a noticeable change in roll rate during the last quarter of the roll compared to the roll rate passing through inverted. If you watch the video, you'll see that the roll rate increases during the last quarter of the roll. Remember what I mentioned about roll rate speeding up when rudder in the same direction as the aileron is re-introduced? This requires a slight reduction in aileron. But honestly, roll rate deviations are the last thing judges will pick up on when grading a roll. Mostly they are looking to see that you didn't climb, settle or "dish" (nose pulled off heading). There's a concept called "load shedding", meaning the judges can only concentrate on so much, and that some things can slip by. You can actually use this to your advantage in some ways. :) There's a whole other side to this competition stuff that involves things you can get away with, things you can cheat to your advantage, and also things that you might NOT necessarily want to fly perfectly in order to make them look perfect. :)

Oh, and do two wing wags at the end of the sequence. :) Tighten up that box position, and I think you'll be in great to shape to put up some nice flights at the contest.
 
Thanks again for the critique Eric. I was waiting to hear from you. I did get some ground critiquing and alot of what you said is right on the money.

Slower into the spin at the top of the 45 upline and don't push over to cruise attitude but to a nose high attitude. I tend to like spinning to the right and rolling to the right but this is a habit I want to get out of. I need to be comfortable both ways and right now I am not.

When I flew the sequence with my instructor in his Christen Eagle he did two things I need to do better. First was the crispness of his entry and exit of manoeuvres. It was like Bang, Bang, Bang. Smooth, crisp and definitive. I tend to ease into stuff too much. The second thing was the time between figures. Define your line, then move onto the next manoeuvre. Don't waste time. I need to work on this.

I try to keep things centered in the box but find it hard to see the center. I think I am flying too close to the judge line. I was practicing over the aerodrome and was trying to use the one taxiway as my center. With the low wing I lose the visual. I think I need to move out a bit.

It's hard not to pinch the loop. My ground critiquing said that I need to pull more at the start. It feels good, but feeling good ain't going to cut it. A 4 G pull to start is what I will shoot for next, not a 3.5 G pull, and then try to extend my float over the top. When I pull aggressively at first I tend to mix in some ailerons for some reason. I tried resting my wrist on my thigh to see if this would help. It did a bit but I just have to get use to the weight of my arms and focus on pulling straight back.

I count a quick 3 seconds on my inverted 45 after the 5/8 loop, then a quick 2 seconds. It's a little intimidating with the ground staring you straight in the face and me accelerating towards it :) Then pull out cleanly and crisply. I tried to do this but still am too mushy. Trying but not as easy as it sounds.

In my 180 degree turn I pull about 4 G also. I also try not to change altitude but it's hard not to dive and climb. Again, the weight of my arms seem to cause me to introduce unwanted inputs. At least that's what I'm blaming :)

It is bit of a work out and I find that after about 6 run throughs I'm done. I'm getting use to it, and really enjoying it and hopefully getting better. This will be my first contest and I still have till August to refine some of these things.

Thanks again for taking the time to write. I will work on some of these things next time out and maybe post another vid.

Keep it clean, definitive and quick.

Darren
 
I try to keep things centered in the box but find it hard to see the center. I think I am flying too close to the judge line. I was practicing over the aerodrome and was trying to use the one taxiway as my center. With the low wing I lose the visual. I think I need to move out a bit.

Except for Citabrias/Decathlon's, almost all other aerobatic airplanes are low/mid/biplane wing configurations, so seeing center box while flying level is always going to be hard. You have to observe your box position when you DO have a good view...ie. during vertical and 45 downlines, etc. Don't adjust your box position for a better view of the box. Your box position should be dictated by what presents best to the judges, unfortunately not what makes it easiest for you. :) The back of the box is always a bad place to be. Try not to be too much off center box on the back side away from the judges. As you lose altitude during the sequence, you should move your position closer to the judges, a little into the opposite side of center, toward the judges. The worst place to be is high at the front of the box, almost as bad is low at the back of the box. As with everything else, ground critiquing will help you find a displacement into the box that looks best based on the sequence and altitudes you are starting and ending with.

And then there are cross-box winds. :) Crosswind correction is an artform in and of itself. If you work on it, that can result in finishing with a 1st place if for no other reason than you were the only one not getting blown all over the place...especially out over the judges' heads. If you don't already have it, Alan Cassidy's book 'Better Aerobatics' is IMO, the best acro book available, contains the most detailed and comprehensive descriptions, and is written to be relevant to the competition aerobatic pilot. A must read.
 
Except for Citabrias/Decathlon's, almost all other aerobatic airplanes are low/mid/biplane wing configurations, so seeing center box while flying level is always going to be hard. You have to observe your box position when you DO have a good view...ie. during vertical and 45 downlines, etc. Don't adjust your box position for a better view of the box. Your box position should be dictated by what presents best to the judges, unfortunately not what makes it easiest for you. :) The back of the box is always a bad place to be. Try not to be too much off center box on the back side away from the judges. As you lose altitude during the sequence, you should move your position closer to the judges, a little into the opposite side of center, toward the judges. The worst place to be is high at the front of the box, almost as bad is low at the back of the box. As with everything else, ground critiquing will help you find a displacement into the box that looks best based on the sequence and altitudes you are starting and ending with.

And then there are cross-box winds. :) Crosswind correction is an artform in and of itself. If you work on it, that can result in finishing with a 1st place if for no other reason than you were the only one not getting blown all over the place...especially out over the judges' heads. If you don't already have it, Alan Cassidy's book 'Better Aerobatics' is IMO, the best acro book available, contains the most detailed and comprehensive descriptions, and is written to be relevant to the competition aerobatic pilot. A must read.



One thing to add here Eric is that he is flying the Primary sequence where in reality, there is not a set box....Yes he needs to start getting aware of the box edges, however the sequence as you know is designed for the entry level!

As for Darren comment about crispines of entry and exit....unfortunatelly you cant duplicate that at 100% with the RV. You can get close to it, but not having the wings and flight controls of a fully aerobatic ride will make you work harder....

Darren...Smokie (Ron Schreck) flew the Sportsman routine last year during the Carolina Boogie and he kicked ####...

BTW...this weekend is the 2011 Carolina Boogie at Wilson Industrial Airport W03....Hope to see some of you there!
 
One thing to add here Eric is that he is flying the Primary sequence where in reality, there is not a set box....Yes he needs to start getting aware of the box edges, however the sequence as you know is designed for the entry level!

That is true that you won't be penalized for going out of the box, but if you're not in the box, the judges won't be able to see your figures very well, and if they can't see what you're doing, it's gonna be hard to get good scores! And you still get a presentation score which counts toward the total. So might as well learn to fly inside the box, but it's still worth noting that going out by a small margin won't matter during the contest flights in Primary...lucky for you Mitch! :D

As for Darren comment about crispines of entry and exit....unfortunatelly you cant duplicate that at 100% with the RV. You can get close to it, but not having the wings and flight controls of a fully aerobatic ride will make you work harder....

Yes, not everybody has a Giles that can pull a 10G corner, but an RV will put a Super D to shame! Most of the crispness on setting/breaking lines I was talking about had to do with pitch control rather than anything to do with the wings or roll rate. The RV can utilize the same line setting/breaking techniques as any other aerobatic plane...except maybe the Giles. :)
 
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