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paul330

Well Known Member
There seems to have been a lot of threads recently on various aspects of the doors which I have been reading with interest as I am just fitting mine now - once I got the garage up from -8C!! These gas space heaters are great :D

Strangely, it has all been going well so far, although I have only done the initial trim and fit. So my question is this: once the doors shells are glued together and you start to trim to fit the opening, is there an easy way? It seems you cannot scribe from the inside because the channel is in the way. Is it really just a case of door on and off twenty times as you take bits off here and there?
 
Be careful if you use the door edge finder. I fabricated a similar tool and used it to fit my doors. You do not want to make the initial cut to the door frame edge line that this tool creates. Just use the line as a reference for your sanding. You want to work your way up to it. The outside edge of the door is actually gets trimmed further out than the fuselage door frame. The frame has a bevel on the top and the door sits on this bevel. That's why VANS has you bevel the door edge to match. If the door is not behaving side to side, you can place washers in the hinge to shift it fore or aft as needed. I used long clecos to hold the hinges in place and that made it easier to remove the doors. Just make sure they are as tight as the bolts.
 
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Paul,

Easy and doors do not belong in the same sentence, but I recommend a method that I learned at Dave Saylor's first composite workshop. It permits you to make one cut of your door edges that will be within 1/16 to 1/8" of final. Put a strip of 2" masking tape on the cabin top, with the inner edge of the tape aligned with the edge of the door opening(left edge of 1st tape layer in drawing below). Position door in cabin door opening, and anchor with clecos, clamps or tape, so that the door is centered fore and aft in the cabin opening. The door edge will overlay part of the 1st tape layer. Apply a 2nd layer of tape with the right edge aligned with the right edge of the 1st tape layer. The left edge of the 2nd tape defines your cut line. This method also works well for fitting the cowl to fuselage edge.

________ 2nd tape layer
door edge__________________
________ 1st tape layer
__________________ cabin edge

I don't know about the pink cabin tops, but the old green tops had a terrible door opening edge. It had an inconsistant radius and no straight lines.There was no way to fit the door edge to the cabin edge and have anything I wanted to look at. I made a new cabin opening edge using the same tape method above; the only difference being that I put the left edge of the 1st tape where I wanted the new edge to be, rather than where the original edge was. Once I had the door edge cut, I went back to build up my new cabin edge. Go to Doug's home page for Feb. 8 to see pictures of my door and opening edges. Less than 1/8" gap now that Grady has put his slick paint job on it.

Jim Berry
 
When I posted the message above, it removed the left- right spacing of my drawing, so that it makes no sense. I tried to correct it, but got the same results.

Jim Berry
 
N15JB said:
When I posted the message above, it removed the left- right spacing of my drawing, so that it makes no sense. I tried to correct it, but got the same results.

Jim Berry
Click to expand...


No, thanks - I got your drift. I was planning somthing similar by measuring from the frame edge and putting a line on the fuslelage then measuring back to the door when it was in place. Tape makes it easier and more accurate.

It also strikes me that if you over-cut very slightly, you can fix it later by putting some release film around the door edge, spread some paste around the door frame and squeeze in the door. Then after it has set, you can make good around the frame.

The cold snap here seems to be abating so I might get some fibreglass work done later in the week.
 
N15JB said:
Paul,



............................................ ________ 2nd tape layer
..........door edge__________________
.............................................________ 1st tape layer
.............................................__________________ cabin edge

This is what I intended in my first post. Just ignore the dots that I had to put in to maintain left-right spacing. What you propose re building up the door edge would certainly work, but if you take some care aligning the tapes, you can make one cut of your door edge that will be dead on. I actually cut my first door a little fat, because I didn't trust myself. Just meant I had to do more sanding. I cut the second door 1/16" outside my line and had it cleaned up with 10 minutes of sanding. When it came time to cut my cowl, I cut to the line and it came out perfect.

Jim Berry

Also I suggest eliminating the 45* bevel Van calls for on the door edge. I squared off mine, then built up the cabin edge to match as shown in the previously mentioned photos. Makes for a very clean door to cabin juncture.
Click to expand...
 
OK, I thought ten minutes was a bit optimistic! Managed to trim the first door to fit on half a day. Actually wasn't too bad. Don't know about trying to block sand though - bring on the flap-wheel!

Actually, the tape ended up almost exactly over the scribe marks so next door, I'll just cut to that.

Second door halves are bonded together. Going to try and fit the hinges to door one tomorrow. Whole thing hasn't been nearly as traumatic as I expected - fuel tanks were WAY worse! Mind you, haven't got to the latch yet......
 
N15JB said:
Paul,

Easy and doors do not belong in the same sentence, but I recommend a method that I learned at Dave Saylor's first composite workshop. It permits you to make one cut of your door edges that will be within 1/16 to 1/8" of final. Put a strip of 2" masking tape on the cabin top, with the inner edge of the tape aligned with the edge of the door opening(left edge of 1st tape layer in drawing below). Position door in cabin door opening, and anchor with clecos, clamps or tape, so that the door is centered fore and aft in the cabin opening. The door edge will overlay part of the 1st tape layer. Apply a 2nd layer of tape with the right edge aligned with the right edge of the 1st tape layer. The left edge of the 2nd tape defines your cut line. This method also works well for fitting the cowl to fuselage edge.

________ 2nd tape layer
door edge__________________
________ 1st tape layer
__________________ cabin edge

I don't know about the pink cabin tops, but the old green tops had a terrible door opening edge. It had an inconsistant radius and no straight lines.There was no way to fit the door edge to the cabin edge and have anything I wanted to look at. I made a new cabin opening edge using the same tape method above; the only difference being that I put the left edge of the 1st tape where I wanted the new edge to be, rather than where the original edge was. Once I had the door edge cut, I went back to build up my new cabin edge. Go to Doug's home page for Feb. 8 to see pictures of my door and opening edges. Less than 1/8" gap now that Grady has put his slick paint job on it.

Jim Berry
Click to expand...

Jim, I'm just starting the doors, I'm new to this forum, and need help! Your idea intrigues me. Do you have pictures? I'm not even sure what direction to make the cuts on the cabin top. Appreciate any help you can give

Bob (Skychick is my wife)
 
Welcome to VAF!!!!

skychick said:
I'm new to this forum, and need help!
Bob (Skychick is my wife)
Click to expand...

Bob, welcome aboard the good ship VAF.

One thing I can pass on for you with the doors, be sure to have the hinges installed correctly------they have a definite front and rear for each door. The hinge pin axis needs to be a straight line through both units.

Mark them, so you get them back in the correct location if you take them
 
skychick said:
Jim, I'm just starting the doors, I'm new to this forum, and need help! Your idea intrigues me. Do you have pictures? I'm not even sure what direction to make the cuts on the cabin top. Appreciate any help you can give

Bob (Skychick is my wife)
Click to expand...

Welcome....

Don't worry about the directions of the cuts yet. You are far from having a finalized edge even when you think you are working on your final edge.

Here is how I did mine and they came out really really close. I'm down to the tweaking phase now.

  • After the door halves are fully cured, the doors are obviously oversized and you need to trim them out to fit the door opening.
  • With the door removed, I used 4" blue painters tape and applied it to the cabin top with the inside edge of the tape extending into the door opening by ~1/4".
  • After the tape was laid down, I slid a sharp razor blade around the edges of the door opening to trim off the tape so it's perfectly flush with the door opening. In other words, I trimmed off that 1/4" section of flapping tape.
  • Then I put the oversized door back on the airplane and located it correctly in the opening.
  • Now you will see the door with the blue tape stuck to the cabin top peeking out around the edges of the door.
  • Then I used a razor blade and ran it around the edges of the over sized door and sliced into tape underneath it.
  • Peel away the tape that isn't under the door and throw it in the trash.
  • You just created a sticky-backed template that creates a perfect cut line. But before you can use it, you need to locate it on the door correctly.
  • Use a sharpie to draw a few reference lines from the door that extend down to the edges of the exposed tape peeking out from under the door.
  • Take the door off the airplane.
  • Carefully pull your template off the cabin top.
  • Take the template and apply it to the outside of the door. Use your reference marks to line it up correctly and the edge of the template should match the edge of the oversized door perfectly.
  • You now have a perfect cut line for your cabin top.
The accuracy will scare you. You'll find that you can sand directly to the line and the door will drop right in.

I did 12-18 inches at a time.

Phil
 
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By the way, I should add that at this point you only want to cut/sand off enough of the channel to get the door to sit flush on the exterior of the aircraft.

You can remove the rest of the material later when you are fitting door seals for the final time.

Phil
 
Bob,

When I made post #6 to this thread the left-right spacing of my diagram was lost. See post # 8 of this thread. I inserted the dots simply to fix the solid lines in proper position. Make a mock up with 2 sheets of paper and 2 strips of masking tape, and I think you will see how it works.

Phil's method is somewhat similar to mine and accomplishes the same thing,albeit with a couple more steps and perhaps greater risk of introducing error when moving his tape template.

With my method(really Dave Saylor's) the second layer of tape will create a continous cut line all the way around the door in one step. No need for reference lines or moving a tape template a few inches at a time.

I suspect you can get good results with either method, but I always like fewer steps and less opportunity for introducing errors.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
The problem you'll have with the tape scenario up top is that it works well with straight lines and not so well with curved cuts (like the top half of the door).

The template will be spot on.

Keep in mind, you aren't making final cuts here, so don't worry yourself over it too much.

Phil
 
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Phil said:
The problem you'll have with the tape scenario up top is that it works well with straight lines and not so well with curved cuts (like the top half of the door).

The template will be spot on.

Keep in mind, you aren't making final cuts here, so don't worry yourself over it too much.

Phil,

Each to their own, but that is not my experience. With a little care, 2" blue tape can be worked around the curves and I did in fact make final cuts to my tape line. Actually I cut the first door about 1/8" fat because I didn't trust myself. I cut the second door to the line and it came out dead on.

Jim Berry
RV-10
Click to expand...
 
I didn't have that much luck at all getting the tape to bend around the corners. Though I did use 4" tape because it was wide enough to go from the cabin top to outside of the doors. My factory doors (pink) were quite wide when they were finished.

The relocation of the template was no big deal at all. It was much less than 1/64th in the worst spot and that's "sanding error". :)

Phil
 
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