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Missing Ops Specs?

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RV8iator

RV8iator

Well Known Member
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To the DAR's around here.

A friend bought an RV4 and the old owner could not provide the aircrafts Ops Specs.

Question? How's the easiest way to get new ones, or request from the FAA copies of the originals?

He now knows it wasn't the smartest thing he ever did, but it is what it is. Nice plane, yadda yadda. He's learning.
 
RV8iator said:
To the DAR's around here.

A friend bought an RV4 and the old owner could not provide the aircrafts Ops Specs.

Question? How's the easiest way to get new ones, or request from the FAA copies of the originals?

He now knows it wasn't the smartest thing he ever did, but it is what it is. Nice plane, yadda yadda. He's learning.
Click to expand...

I'm not a DAR but if you go to the FAA's Request for Copies of Aircraft Records site, enter the registration and serial numbers and pay the $5, the FAA will send copies of all records, including the operating limitations, if they have them on file.
 
If he bought the airplane from another state/area, or if it has pretty old Op Lims, he might want to have them amended anyway.

By getting them amended, he will have the latest version and have the flight test area moved to his home base. This will come in handy if he decides to make any mods requiring a return to Phase I.

OTOH, if the airplane was done by a DAR, the DAR can probably supply him with a copy.
 
I just went through that. I bought my plane in North Carolina and flew it to Texas. Once here I needed to get a new Airworthiness Certificate and Ops Limits from the closest FSDO.

I called the FSDO and left a voicemail every other day and after about 2 weeks I finally got a call back. They gave me the FAA website where I entered all of the information to request a copy of the AW and Ops Limits because it's done online now. The problem is that I'm not the FAA registered owner yet, even though the FAA in Oklahoma already has my paperwork to transfer it into my name, so I had to enter the previous owner's info ( the person who sold it to me ) and then the FSDO inspector emailed me a form for the seller to sign and return to me for me to upload it into the system.

Once that was done about a week later he emailed me a new AW certificate which comes with new Ops Limits. You print them and place them in the plane and you're set.
 
aircraft records request

Anyone know if you need to request the certified copies?
I need to replace my operating limitations certificate,old one is worn and torn.
or need to see a dar? thank for any reply's. lawrence
 
lawrence said:
Anyone know if you need to request the certified copies?
I need to replace my operating limitations certificate,old one is worn and torn.
or need to see a dar? thank for any reply's. lawrence
Click to expand...

Read my replies on this thread. You do it online now. There are no "certified copies" anymore. They email you the AW Certificate and Ops Limits and you print them as many times as you want.
 
Pilot135pd said:
Not that one. This one has instructions

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/aw_cert_proc

This one is the actual online tool where you enter all info

https://awc.faa.gov/AWCExternalApplicant/Splash/Index
Click to expand...

Okay, maybe we're talking about two different things. It looks like the link you provided is used to apply for an airworthiness certificate ("Airworthiness Certification (AWC) - Applicant Portal") whereas this link is merely to request copies of existing aircraft records ("Request for Copies of Aircraft Records Entry Screen"), which is what I thought the OP was seeking.

In either case, all good info.
 
Dad's RV-10 said:
Okay, maybe we're talking about two different things. It looks like the link you provided is used to apply for an airworthiness certificate ("Airworthiness Certification (AWC) - Applicant Portal") whereas this link is merely to request copies of existing aircraft records ("Request for Copies of Aircraft Records Entry Screen"), which is what I thought the OP was seeking.

In either case, all good info.
Click to expand...

You're only reading the title. You can do many things on that website including requesting a copy of your AW certificate and Ops Limits, like I did.
 
Pilot135pd said:
You're only reading the title. You can do many things on that website including requesting a copy of your AW certificate and Ops Limits, like I did.
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Thanks for the clarification. With the link I posted, anyone can request records for any aircraft, regardless of ownership (you don't have to be the registrant).

It's a great resource when shopping for an aircraft.
 
I thought OP was asking for copies of already-existing registration and AWC (26 pages, so includes OP limitations).

At https://aircraft.faa.gov/e.gov/nd/, for $5.60 ($.10/page) I got paper records. For an extra $10 you can get them as certified copies (not sure why you'd need this). For $10, you can get them on CD.
 
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MacCool said:
I thought OP was asking for copies of already-existing registration and AWC (26 pages, so includes OP limitations).

At https://aircraft.faa.gov/e.gov/nd/, for $5.60 ($.10/page) I got paper records. For an extra $10 you can get them as certified copies (not sure why you'd need this). For $10, you can get them on CD.
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The problem is the OP didn't say if his friend bought the plane from another FSDO area. If so then it's worthless to get the same Ops Limits since he'll need updated ones from the new FSDO, oh and those are free on the AWC website.
 
Pilot135pd said:
The problem is the OP didn't say if his friend bought the plane from another FSDO area. If so then it's worthless to get the same Ops Limits since he'll need updated ones from the new FSDO, oh and those are free on the AWC website.
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Explain that to me...I'm confused. I bought my plane from a completely different FSDO area too, and the previous owner bought it from the original builder in yet another FSDO, but the op limits we both flew it under were the ones that the OB got with the original AWC. Do I infer from your post that the Op limits I'm flying under as part of my AROW documents are "worthless"? Op limits are only valid in the area where the plane got its AWC?
 
MacCool said:
Explain that to me...I'm confused. I bought my plane from a completely different FSDO area too, and the previous owner bought it from the original builder in yet another FSDO, but the op limits we both flew it under were the ones that the OB got with the original AWC. Do I infer from your post that the Op limits I'm flying under as part of my AROW documents are "worthless"? Op limits are only valid in the area where the plane got its AWC?
Click to expand...

The only reason you might need new Op Lims is if you make a modification requiring returning the aircraft to Phase I flight testing or if you simply want the latest version.

For normal operations the original Op Lims are fine.
 
MacCool said:
Explain that to me...I'm confused. I bought my plane from a completely different FSDO area too, and the previous owner bought it from the original builder in yet another FSDO, but the op limits we both flew it under were the ones that the OB got with the original AWC. Do I infer from your post that the Op limits I'm flying under as part of my AROW documents are "worthless"? Op limits are only valid in the area where the plane got its AWC?
Click to expand...

I was too quick to post. The FSDO part doesn't apply to E-AB, my plane is E-Exhibition. The part about getting your Ops Limits and at the same time getting them updated if your current ones are really old, and free, still applies to the AWC website though.
 
Oh YES........

Pilot135pd said:
I was too quick to post. The FSDO part doesn't apply to E-AB, my plane is E-Exhibition. The part about getting your Ops Limits and at the same time getting them updated if your current ones are really old, and free, still applies to the AWC website though.
Click to expand...

"Exhibition" is a whole different ball game!
 
Mel said:
The only reason you might need new Op Lims is if you make a modification requiring returning the aircraft to Phase I flight testing or if you simply want the latest version.

For normal operations the original Op Lims are fine.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought....thanks for clearing that up.
 
Pilot135pd said:
Not much different anymore with the new ops limits. My first Exhibition many decades ago was tighter but now it's almost as good as E-AB.
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Meeting the yearly requirement for Exhibition category of supplying the FAA with a list of events that the airplane is to be exhibited at in the coming year, as a huge difference when compared to E-AB.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
Meeting the yearly requirement for Exhibition category of supplying the FAA with a list of events that the airplane is to be exhibited at in the coming year, as a huge difference when compared to E-AB.
Click to expand...

You make it sound complicated, it isn't. "Meeting the yearly requirement" means you email them a letter once a year and if you write it correctly never have to think about it again. I have mine for 2024 ready to send, it's practically a copy of the previous year with a new date.

I included in my letter one line to include flights every weekend to the various aviation fly-in plus donuts & pancake breakfast type gatherings where I'll show off my one of kind plane.

Also just because you listed an event in the letter doesn't mean you must attend that event plus you have all the training/maintenance/etc flights for the rest of the days of the year. Everything else is the same as E-AB, you even have Phase 1 if you make a major change too.

A simple 1 page letter is not a big deal.
 
Pilot135pd said:
You make it sound complicated, it isn't. "Meeting the yearly requirement" means you email them a letter once a year and if you write it correctly never have to think about it again. I have mine for 2024 ready to send, it's practically a copy of the previous year with a new date.

I included in my letter one line to include flights every weekend to the various aviation fly-in plus donuts & pancake breakfast type gatherings where I'll show off my one of kind plane.

Also just because you listed an event in the letter doesn't mean you must attend that event plus you have all the training/maintenance/etc flights for the rest of the days of the year. Everything else is the same as E-AB, you even have Phase 1 if you make a major change too.

A simple 1 page letter is not a big deal.
Click to expand...

I have done it for a number of aircraft with exhibition certification so I know what is involved.
My point simply was that there is a difference. Didn’t say it was difficult or laborious.
It does bring in to play the regulatory issue of flying an exhibition category airplane to places that were not listed in the annual notification letter.

Before you fire back that everyone does it, yes, I know. And the FAA seems to look the other way, but all it would take is an accident investigation after a bad accident (the one that just happened with the MiG could easily have fit that description) that determined that the airplane was at an unreported location far from home, and it would snowball in no time. If nothing else, potentially having an influence on the operating freedoms of all of the other exhibition category airplanes.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
... all it would take is an accident investigation after a bad accident ...and it would snowball in no time. If nothing else, potentially having an influence on the operating freedoms of all of the other exhibition category airplanes.
Click to expand...

As happens with all categories of aircraft, so again not much difference.

Like I said before "if you write it correctly" you won't need to fly outside of the letter and if by chance you didn't write your correctly all it takes is an email to the FSDO and away you go. I've been doing it for a while too, my first experimental was Exhibition many decades ago.
 
Why would you fly an airplane with an Experimental-Exhibition airworthiness certificate? What's the advantage?
 
MacCool said:
Why would you fly an airplane with an Experimental-Exhibition airworthiness certificate? What's the advantage?
Click to expand...

All of those ex-military planes you see flying around are practically all Experimental-Exhibition. From jets to single engine planes that were never sold for civilian use and you see them flying here in the States. They don't fit into any other category. Also any plane that might be certified in another country but can't be certified here because it won't qualify under any category here can usually be registered in the Experimental-Exhibition category. Then you have a few planes like a 172 that has a different engine and wings and other modifications, and the owner got it registered in the Experimental-Exhibition category too. He normally would have put it in the Restricted or Research category but chose Exhibition and the FAA approved it.

Pilots are so used to just seeing Standard category Cessnas & Pipers and then the LSAs and finally the Experimental-Amateur Built aircraft, that some forget that there are a lot of other FAA Special Airworthiness Certificate registration categories flying around.
 
While interesting, this thread has wandered far from RV’s and A-EAB, which is where virtually all RV’s are registered, so it’s run it’s course…..
 
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