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MGL Avionics V10 VHF transceiver update

R

Rainier Lamers

Well Known Member
The V10 first production is complete. International shipments are on hold pending FCC or equivalent certifications to come in (ongoing process, should be completed soon for U.S. FCC).

User and installation manual is available for download at:
www.MGLAvionics.co.za/VHF10.htm

Also available is a simulator for the unit that also contains a frequency database editor. The simulator is useful to find out how to operate the unit and give a basic overview over its many features.

The V10 includes two independent RS232 channels, each Garmin SL30 (comm part), SL40 (Icom A210) compatible. This allows full control from two EFIS systems at the same time (pilot/pax systems etc).
The V10 also includes the MGL binary protocol which is published in the manual. This allows full remote control down to detail level.

U.S. price based on current currency exchange rates is expected in the 650-750 USD region.

U.S. distribution is via MGL Avionics USA - www.MGLAvionics.com
Reservations essential. This product is distributed on a waiting list bases.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
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Transmit power

Thanks for posting the update, Ranier.

I noticed the transmit power is 6 watts versus 8 watts for the SL30/40. What will the impact be of having less transmit power?

It looks like a terrific unit. I like having the dual RS-232 connections.
 
Darryl,
I don't think you'll notice the difference assuming you have a good antenna. My #1 comm is a Garmin 250XL and it is 5W. No problems.
 
dhusk said:
Thanks for posting the update, Ranier.

I noticed the transmit power is 6 watts versus 8 watts for the SL30/40. What will the impact be of having less transmit power?

It looks like a terrific unit. I like having the dual RS-232 connections.
Click to expand...

You will have somewhere between 6 and 7 W of power available at the connector. The power varies slightly over the band with the peaks towards the band edges.

Range is generally a function of two items: Radiated power (actual power leaving the antenna) and radiation pattern (i.e. in what directions does your antenna throw the power).

In an ideal World, in order to get twice the distance you need 4 times the power, in real life a tad more.
This means the difference of say 20% power is almost unnoticable. You will do MUCH better by optimising your antenna.
Specifications for a VHF radio in this class call for a power level of 4W. The V10 is able to deliver this at a DC operating voltage of only 10V (low power emergency operation).

There is however one item that is often overlooked - and that makes a big difference with an AM transmitter - modulation. Roughly speaking, to get good range you also need to have good modulation. This means using as much as the available amplitude variation as possible - at least 80% but not much more or else you will start causing trouble in other channels and your radio would be illegal.
Now, here comes the clincher - many radios (most of them) don't modulate well at all. This means you have perhaps a good carrier which gives you range - but a weak modulation still means that the other side has trouble reading you.
This is one aspect we have been working real hard at - how to get 80% modulation cleanly over a wide range of microphone levels ? With some radios you have AGC or a clipper (nasty) to help - but this is usualy less than satisfactory. Enter the fact that everything right up to and including our modulator is digital and microprocessor driven. As all audio signal processing is done with software it follows that a clever system could continously modify the audio signal to air in such a way that best possible modulation is ensured without changing the quality of the voice being modulated.

Well, the result ? I have now done quite a number of flights with this radio and I get regulary "6 out of 5" as reply to a radio check - that's how well this works.
Now that does almost as much for your range than a good antenna installation.
But - my recommendation is - if you want range, forget the radio. Look at your antenna installation. This is where good power is wasted and even small changes can lead to big improvements.

Even a small handheld can give you surprising range if it is connected to a good antenna.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Rainier Lamers said:
Even a small handheld can give you surprising range if it is connected to a good antenna.
Click to expand...
Ab-so-lutely. While in college, I would occasionally hike around the Mt. Wilson summit area. I would sometimes have my coffee in my car and rag chew (chat) on 2m and 440 ham radio repeaters around the basic. You could even work the 2m box on Catalina Island, some 40+ miles away (147.09?), just using my 2.5W handheld and a 5/8 wave antenna mounted through the car roof (not mag-mount). Granted the repeater there was at the Catalina airport (about 1500MSL) and had a good antenna and front end, but still, it was cool.

Getting a good ground plane, having good connections and using good coax will help a lot more than more power, unless perhaps your name is Scotty and you work in engineering. ;)

TODR
 
Thanks!

Thanks for the informative responses everyone.

Ranier, you are consistantly on the boards with good answers and never a bad word about a competitor. In fact, usually the opposite - kind words for your competitors. It is appreciated.

Everyone else, thanks for chiming in with real world experience and advice.

The instrument panel can be the most expensive part of building. Having options can help trim the cost. MGL is providing many of those options.
 
I'll second that

dhusk said:
Ranier, you are consistantly on the boards with good answers and never a bad word about a competitor. In fact, usually the opposite - kind words for your competitors. It is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Very well stated, dittos form me also.

Same can be said of lots of folks here, Stein, AFS, BPE, GRT, and Mahlon all come to mind.

I am sure there are others, not trying to leave anyone out.

Doug, thanks to you also, for making it all possible.
 
amilder said:
Are there any plans to make one with knobs?
Click to expand...

Yes.
We have a whole host of RF products in development.
Here is a brief outline on what's cooking:

V6 - a basic 2.25" VHF transceiver using much of the V10 technology but cut to the bone to make it even cheaper (this one does not have RS232 remote control).

V20 - This is our "remote" VHF transceiver that is likely to be the next one to be released. It is a little box just larger than a box of cigarettes and it contains a 10W transmitter. This unit uses your EFIS as user interface (so no additional holes to cut). Two other EFIS makers will be using branded versions of this so far.

V30 - This is the "knobs" version of the V10. Sometime next year.

N20 - This is our "remote" NAV receiver, roughly the equivalent of the NAV portion of a SL30. Combined with a V10,V20 or V30 it is effectively compatible with the Garmin product. Should be ready early next year.

Then, lastly, we are working on a mode-s transponder (in fact I have a meeting about it this afternoon). This is however likely to be some time away, mainly due to costs so we have to save up a little (the certification process is a little daunting for a small company like ours).

There are some other, smaller projects around all this like remote control heads etc.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Rainier Lamers said:
V20 - This is our "remote" VHF transceiver that is likely to be the next one to be released. It is a little box just larger than a box of cigarettes and it contains a 10W transmitter. This unit uses your EFIS as user interface (so no additional holes to cut). Two other EFIS makers will be using branded versions of this so far.
Click to expand...

I bet you are not allowed to say names? So I guess we need open some upcoming VHF transceivers from EFIS manufacturers to find out... ;)
 
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Pirkka said:
I bet you are not allowed to say names? So I guess we need open some upcoming VHS transceivers from EFIS manufacturers to find out... ;)
Click to expand...

Well, I don't know, I suppose its best for me to allow them to say things themselves (if they want to).

They are both U.S. companies and one of them is very well known and respected in the experimental EFIS market. I think that is almost saying too much...

Rainier
 
Rainier - firstly, I echo the compliments posted by others here. Your participation, and the positive spirit embodied in it, is very much appreciated.

Now, on to the product suite...
N20 - I'm sure there are others like me who have purchased an EFIS (Dynon in my case) and would love to use it to interface to a NAV radio, but don't have panel space or budget for an SL30 or similar. If the N20 is going to provide full VOR/ILS/GS capability in a remotely-mounted package, please sign me up for one as this is exactly what I need!
 
Question on nav/com combo

Rainier,

When you have the nav box ready, will the combo of it and the com require two serial ports on the efis to get full SL30 like integration or just one?

If just one, how is this handled on the combo?

If two, would that not require a custom driver on the EFIS side?

What I am getting at, several efis makers already fully support the SL30 over the serial link and I hope your nav/com combo will imitate the SL30 with just one serial port required on the efis????
 
Wiring

Rainier


I guess it is my turn for your 20 questions.:D

I am running wire right now. I will definitely be a future customer for your remote comm and nav. Hate to ask for too much, but could you give me a best guess for how many and what gauge wires to run to my future spot so that I can put them in now?

Thanks,
 
RV8RIVETER said:
Rainier


I guess it is my turn for your 20 questions.:D

I am running wire right now. I will definitely be a future customer for your remote comm and nav. Hate to ask for too much, but could you give me a best guess for how many and what gauge wires to run to my future spot so that I can put them in now?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

22AWG is usualy a good choice for signals and also suitable for power for the NAV as it uses "peanuts" for power.
For the VHF 22AWG can be used as well for power as it draws unusualy little during transmit (we achieved over 70% efficiency for the transmitter), however it does not hurt to go to a slightly thicker wire.

I tend to recommend shielded wire for all audio and serial COM - just to be safe - nothing is more annoying than interference.

All audio and other signal connections are routed via ferrites internally in the radio so everything is pretty well protected against conducted EMI (in and out) anyway...

Rainier
 
Brantel said:
Rainier,

When you have the nav box ready, will the combo of it and the com require two serial ports on the efis to get full SL30 like integration or just one?

If just one, how is this handled on the combo?

If two, would that not require a custom driver on the EFIS side?

What I am getting at, several efis makers already fully support the SL30 over the serial link and I hope your nav/com combo will imitate the SL30 with just one serial port required on the efis????
Click to expand...

We tried to be clever with his one.

Both the VHF COM as well as the NAV have two RS232 serial ports. You simply wire for each port RX to RX and TX to TX. We made special provision on the TX to allow this.
This means that any combination of our VHF COM radios (except the V6) and the NAV will look just like a SL30 to whatever is used as EFIS.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Canadian_JOY said:
Rainier - firstly, I echo the compliments posted by others here. Your participation, and the positive spirit embodied in it, is very much appreciated.
Click to expand...

OK, guys, you are kind of making me blush here. Appreciated. Let me know if/when I stray off the right track.

Now, on to the product suite...
N20 - I'm sure there are others like me who have purchased an EFIS (Dynon in my case) and would love to use it to interface to a NAV radio, but don't have panel space or budget for an SL30 or similar. If the N20 is going to provide full VOR/ILS/GS capability in a remotely-mounted package, please sign me up for one as this is exactly what I need!
Click to expand...

The N20 gives you everything that the SL30 NAV side does but also includes a marker receiver. It is a fully digital implementation of a traditional analog NAV radio so it never ages or drifts. It really is a computer simulation of a NAV radio - but of course a good simulation behaves like the real thing !Because of this there are also no adjustments in the NAV radio so production as well overall cost is significantly less than before so it's going to be very affordable.

Rainier
 
Rainier,

Couple more questions!

How does one control the NAV part of the NAV/COM combo if he does not have an EFIS that has decided to support remote control of your units? Will the COM radio become the user interface?

Shocked to also see that your Nav will have a MB reciever! That just made my day as I can scrap the audio panel now!

Will the Nav radio have normal MB outputs to drive lights or discrete inputs to say a Dynon Hs34?
 
Rainier

Sorry if I wasn't clear, let me try again.

How many wires to the remote comm and nav location?

From your last post I assume;
1 coax ant conn (Nav has 2)
1 for power
1 for ground
1 pair shielded wires for audio in (comm only)
1 pair shielded wires for audio out
1 cable RS232 for control ( Is this a 3 wire minimal bus?? or 5 or 9)

Does this sound correct?

Thanks for your time.
 
Brantel said:
Rainier,

Couple more questions!

How does one control the NAV part of the NAV/COM combo if he does not have an EFIS that has decided to support remote control of your units? Will the COM radio become the user interface?

Shocked to also see that your Nav will have a MB reciever! That just made my day as I can scrap the audio panel now!

Will the Nav radio have normal MB outputs to drive lights or discrete inputs to say a Dynon Hs34?
Click to expand...

We are preparing a 3/5" panel mount head for it so you can fully operate it even if you do not have a compatible EFIS. Even with this it is still a huge amount cheaper than the alternative.
The head can be used at the same time as an EFIS - in case you want a backup or second control / display.

Outputs to drive lights and audio output for the morse. Probably will add a custom message to the RS232 so EFIS can pick it up and flash the whole screen at you :)

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
RV8RIVETER said:
Rainier

Sorry if I wasn't clear, let me try again.

How many wires to the remote comm and nav location?

From your last post I assume;
1 coax ant conn (Nav has 2)
1 for power
1 for ground
1 pair shielded wires for audio in (comm only)
1 pair shielded wires for audio out
1 cable RS232 for control ( Is this a 3 wire minimal bus?? or 5 or 9)

Does this sound correct?

Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's it. The RS232 is 3 pin (including ground that you can leave off to avoid ground loops).
The RS232 (in case you just use one port) will go to TX of both and RX of both.
Audio can either be routed to an audio panel so you can select COM and NAV audio as required (i.e. they remain independent) or you can route the one through the other.
Even though they may look like one unit to an EFIS they are completely independent.

In your above list you would still add wiring to the headsets (as the COMM has a really nice built in system, you may even be tempted to throw your ANR's away).

Rainier
 
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