Making hangars habitable

[Bill Boyd]

My hangar is a 36x48 pole barn I erected myself 25 years ago. It's been wonderful having the plane two apple-chucks from the back door and under roof. But it has not been without its shortcomings owing to the general austerity of the building itself and the budget I had to sink into it. I was able to get it built for a grand outlay of about 15k over the years - half that for concrete and the rest for lumber, trusses and siding/roofing (1990's pricing). Since then it has been what it is - holding up well but attracting bushels of grass clippings, wasp droppings and spider webs. It's lighted but not heated or insulated, has no ceiling, the wind blows easily under and around the sliding doors, a bit of rain drips through the skylight panels. In the summer I can sometimes hardly do maintenance on the plane for all the sweat pouring off my brow by 10AM. In the winter the tools can become too cold to touch without sticking to them like a kid licking a flagpole.

To make matters exponentially worse, I have now taken up woodworking as an additional hobby - and SWMBO insists that my turn in the climate controlled basement workshop (5 years building the RV-10) is now over as far as any activities that generate dust are concerned. Fair enough. Now I am embarking on a quest to make the hangar more habitable than a solitary confinement cell in a Japanese POW camp in 1943. The hangar will have to house the plane, me a lot of the time, and a slew of woodworking tools - and I want it kinda comfy, on a budget.

I'm researching ways to enclose the ceiling and insulate the walls without breaking the bank or my roof trusses. I've got lighting and electric figured out. I'll jerry-rig some way to weatherstrip the doors. Right now I am leaning toward steel roofing panels on the truss undersides (44" o.c.), batt or blown insulation on top of that, and 1.5" poly-foam and Great Stuff in between the wall purlin 2x4's. Heat looks like it would be easy to implement with an old oil burning furnace but I've had success installing a DIY mini-split in my barn-dominium and that route, while significantly more $$, would give me air conditioning as well as heat. I'm debating building a partition inside between the plane and the wood shop, or just lowering a surplus 35' parachute from the ceiling over the RV and letting the mess go where it will between sweepings.

I know the hive always teems with good ideas so I'm inviting suggestions on any aspect of this rehabilitation project. What you got?

Photo from 2022, when the hangar was also a paint booth. No extra charge for bugs and dust in the finish coat.

 

[swjohnsey]

Build an office/bachelor pad in a corner like a tiny house with heating, AC, bath and possibly kitchen, maybe 400 square feet.

 

[RV6_flyer]

Unable to offer suggestions.

My hangar is insulated with heat and air conditioning. I am able to work in it year round if I am willing to pay to heat or cool it. I run a dehumidifier 31 in the summer (24 hours a day, 7 days a week. 24+7 = 31, all summer) and during daylight hours in the winter.

Having rented a HOT hangar in the summer when I was based on the LEFT coast and a COLD hangar in the winter when based in PA, I know what you are going through. I spent some of my retirement savings to have what I now have. Figure in my twilight years, I am going to enjoy my final years in aviation.

 

[Carlos151]

My hangar is a 36x48 pole barn I erected myself 25 years ago. It's been wonderful having the plane two apple-chucks from the back door and under roof. But it has not been without its shortcomings owing to the general austerity of the building itself and the budget I had to sink into it. I was able to get it built for a grand outlay of about 15k over the years - half that for concrete and the rest for lumber, trusses and siding/roofing (1990's pricing). Since then it has been what it is - holding up well but attracting bushels of grass clippings, wasp droppings and spider webs. It's lighted but not heated or insulated, has no ceiling, the wind blows easily under and around the sliding doors, a bit of rain drips through the skylight panels. In the summer I can sometimes hardly do maintenance on the plane for all the sweat pouring off my brow by 10AM. In the winter the tools can become too cold to touch without sticking to them like a kid licking a flagpole.

To make matters exponentially worse, I have now taken up woodworking as an additional hobby - and SWMBO insists that my turn in the climate controlled basement workshop (5 years building the RV-10) is now over as far as any activities that generate dust are concerned. Fair enough. Now I am embarking on a quest to make the hangar more habitable than a solitary confinement cell in a Japanese POW camp in 1943. The hangar will have to house the plane, me a lot of the time, and a slew of woodworking tools - and I want it kinda comfy, on a budget.

I'm researching ways to enclose the ceiling and insulate the walls without breaking the bank or my roof trusses. I've got lighting and electric figured out. I'll jerry-rig some way to weatherstrip the doors. Right now I am leaning toward steel roofing panels on the truss undersides (44" o.c.), batt or blown insulation on top of that, and 1.5" poly-foam and Great Stuff in between the wall purlin 2x4's. Heat looks like it would be easy to implement with an old oil burning furnace but I've had success installing a DIY mini-split in my barn-dominium and that route, while significantly more $$, would give me air conditioning as well as heat. I'm debating building a partition inside between the plane and the wood shop, or just lowering a surplus 35' parachute from the ceiling over the RV and letting the mess go where it will between sweepings.

I know the hive always teems with good ideas so I'm inviting suggestions on any aspect of this rehabilitation project. What you got?


View attachment 55247
Photo from 2022, when the hangar was also a paint booth. No extra charge for bugs and dust in the finish coat.

The same metal siding you have on the walls you can use on the roof rafters to make a drop ceiling. Leave an access panel so you can blow insulation up top. We did our hangar and blew 6-8" up there before installing a heat pump for A/C and heat. If you install the plastic banded insulation on the walls you should not have to seal up too much at the headers. Try to have all your wiring for your indoor and outdoor lighting done before blowing the insulation.

You can use the same insulation on the hangar door.

Personally I would get rid of the skylights before you close in the ceiling. Those plastic skylights last about 8 years before they start leaking. Ask me how I know. Fairly easy task; we just replaced 6 of those on our barn over a two day period. They provided light when we didn't have power hooked so I get it but it's not a matter of if but when skylights will have to be replaced.

Once you have all your insulation in place you can make it livable with the A/C / heat. Certainly makes working on the aircraft much easier.

 

[Bill Boyd]

Build an office/bachelor pad in a corner like a tiny house with heating, AC, bath and possibly kitchen, maybe 400 square feet.

I've considered all that, Stan. No real need for a pad. I've got running water just outside the door for equipment washing, and there's no one here on the farm to see or care if I pee out the back door. But I do want habitable working conditions and if possible to keep the prodigious dust off the plane and associated hardware.

After talking with the sweet young thing, I think my budget here is in the low 4 figures. We just sank about 100 AMU's into a barn conversion that a contractor friend said would run "about 40k if you do all the work yourself " (which I pretty much did). He didn't know (nor did we, at the outset) that we would end up spending that much on cabinets, countertops and custom windows, doors and stairs.

I think I may have to do this incrementally.

Me on my death bed: "Son, don't sell the plane for what I told your mother I spent on it!"

 

[Bill Boyd]

Carlos, that interior is top tier. I love it.

 

[Carlos151]

Carlos, that interior is top tier. I love it.

Thank you Sir. That floor coating is Rust-Oleum epoxy garage floor paint straight from the Lowes aviation aisle . Most people that complain it doesn't work and peels up are the ones that didn't prep the concrete right. Don't use the liquid etching, it's pretty much worthless; spend the time to mechanically etch the concrete. 5 years on that flooring and no peel up yet. Rent a floor sander from your local equipment renter. To get to the edges of the concrete there's a concrete floor grinder blade that'll attach to your electric angle grinder. No easy way to do it, get some gel knee pads. Vacuum ALL of the dust up first then rinse ALL the dust off a couple of times. We used a pressure washer. Let it dry at least 5 days, maybe longer and then you can start painting the floor. The squares you see in the picture are 10 ft x 10 ft so one Rust-Oleum kit will do one and a half squares. I think I used 6 kits total for my 50x50 hangar.

 

[DerekS]

Since my hangar once looked a lot like yours...

I did spray foam everywhere. It went on super quickly and with little manual effort on my part - keeps the mud daubers out, but may not meet your budget friendly requirements. I did cover over my windows, which I regret. I then had to spend money on Amazon UFO led high bay lights. (which are fantastic). Cutting holes and putting in insulated windows is on my list.

Steel ceiling for the ceiling with blown in insulation over top is a popular option at my airport and I've heard no complaints from the folks that have it. If I were to do it again I'd likely do that in the roof, spray foam the walls and put steel over the spray foam. Your boards idea is likely less expensive and probably good enough

Your floor will float up and down relative to the poles less than it does now when you are heated, but you will still need to worry about that and it becomes more important when you are sealing

You will get a big temperature delta from floor to ceiling and ceiling fans pushing the warm air down will make a big difference in comfort and heating cost. At a minimum put in power boxes while doing the ceiling.

Hangars are usually kept cold when you are not working, so lots of BTUs to warm it up quickly will be appreciated. The concrete floor has a LOT of thermal mass and its likely not insulated between it and the planet below, which also has a lot of thermal mass... If you do the heat pump, you likely still want the furnace for the warm ups. Especially if the initial insulating efforts are budget constrained.

Rent, or borrow a scissor lift - done once you will never go back.

Derek

 

[Carlos151]

Totally second what Derek said about fans. I installed four 6 ft fans that are reversible by remote control since the ceiling height is 16 ft. You mentioned you have a barn so you likely have a horse/livestock trailer. We used ours, backing into the hangar, provides a nice platform to install fans or lights without having to rent a scissor lift. The fans will save you $$$ on heating and cooling. Here in middle TN I keep the hangar at 50 degrees and raise it up when I'm working in it. For summer I keep the thermostat at 78 and cool it down when needed. Just getting the humidity out makes a huge difference. The power bill has maybe increased $20 per month since we installed the heat pump. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Hotel5one2]

Clear bi-fold doors, high quality epoxy floor a 20 X 44 foot overhang and a small bathroom. The 3 best things I did while building my hanger.

 

[Hotel5one2]

doors, epoxy, doors, bathroom...that's 4 not 3. Sorry

 

[Micro151]

The same metal siding you have on the walls you can use on the roof rafters to make a drop ceiling. Leave an access panel so you can blow insulation up top. We did our hangar and blew 6-8" up there before installing a heat pump for A/C and heat. If you install the plastic banded insulation on the walls you should not have to seal up too much at the headers. Try to have all your wiring for your indoor and outdoor lighting done before blowing the insulation.

View attachment 55249

You can use the same insulation on the hangar door.

Personally I would get rid of the skylights before you close in the ceiling. Those plastic skylights last about 8 years before they start leaking. Ask me how I know. Fairly easy task; we just replaced 6 of those on our barn over a two day period. They provided light when we didn't have power hooked so I get it but it's not a matter of if but when skylights will have to be replaced.

Once you have all your insulation in place you can make it livable with the A/C / heat. Certainly makes working on the aircraft much easier.

Carlos’s hangar is really sweet so if you can emulate it I would!

 

[Draker]

Thank you Sir. That floor coating is Rust-Oleum epoxy garage floor paint straight from the Lowes aviation aisle . Most people that complain it doesn't work and peels up are the ones that didn't prep the concrete right. Don't use the liquid etching, it's pretty much worthless; spend the time to mechanically etch the concrete. 5 years on that flooring and no peel up yet. Rent a floor sander from your local equipment renter. To get to the edges of the concrete there's a concrete floor grinder blade that'll attach to your electric angle grinder. No easy way to do it, get some gel knee pads. Vacuum ALL of the dust up first then rinse ALL the dust off a couple of times. We used a pressure washer. Let it dry at least 5 days, maybe longer and then you can start painting the floor. The squares you see in the picture are 10 ft x 10 ft so one Rust-Oleum kit will do one and a half squares. I think I used 6 kits total for my 50x50 hangar.

I did the same as Karl. 1. Used an angle grinder with a diamond wheel to rough up the existing (pretty severe) cracks, 2. Filled them with Rustoleum Concrete Patch&Repair, 3. Mechanically etched the entire surface with a walk-behind diamond grinder rented from Home Depot, 4. Coated the surface with Rustoleum Epoxyshield Pro (the solvent-based product, had to buy it online), 5. Topped it off with a clear epoxy topcoat with a little silica anti-slip mixed in. Turned out great.

If your existing hangar floor was poured incorrectly (as mine was, without expansion cuts), it will eventually (re-)crack, and there's nothing you can do about it, but otherwise, the epoxy coating is a huge upgrade and totally DIY-able by anyone.

 

[Bill Boyd]

I originally acid-washed the hangar floor and coated it with water-based epoxy floor paint left over from the garage/basement. After painting the plane in there the floor is now overspray-pink. Since I painted a lot of the removable pieces in the basement to avoid bugs and summer heat, its gray epoxy floor is now pink as well. Wife not happy about it at all. Me, well... I figure the more we use these spaces the faster it will wear off and become gray again.

 

[Bill Boyd]

Hotel, I like your overhang and can imagine you get a lot of use out of it. I see no way to emulate that cantilever roof design using timber, and I'm a wood guy, not a steel worker I'll have to be content to admire it from afar.

My hangar was sized to fit my 6A back in the day, nothing wider. I had to modify the front and the sliding door extensively to shoehorn the -10 in there and even so it barely fits width-wise. At this stage in my life it is what it is - the next owner can replace it if he chooses.

 

[danny]

I've considered all that, Stan. No real need for a pad. I've got running water just outside the door for equipment washing, and there's no one here on the farm to see or care if I pee out the back door. But I do want habitable working conditions and if possible to keep the prodigious dust off the plane and associated hardware.

After talking with the sweet young thing, I think my budget here is in the low 4 figures. We just sank about 100 AMU's into a barn conversion that a contractor friend said would run "about 40k if you do all the work yourself " (which I pretty much did). He didn't know (nor did we, at the outset) that we would end up spending that much on cabinets, countertops and custom windows, doors and stairs.

I think I may have to do this incrementally.

Me on my death bed: "Son, don't sell the plane for what I told your mother I spent on it!"

I have a friend who put a small camper in his hangar complete with kitchen, shower and even a bathroom though it sounds like you have that covered.

 

[DerekS]

If you get tempted to cover the pink...

My public service announcement for anyone considering an epoxy floor. I made the mistake of using the very popular epoxy floor color of white with black flakes. Fortunately at home and not the hangar.

I can pour a box of 200 screws on the floor, and afterwards I'll only find 5 of them until next time I sweep (really not much of an exaggeration). The chips look good and are great at hiding dirt, cracks etc on the floor , but really bad if you want to find errant hardware.

 

[rockwoodrv9]

The guys have posted some really nice hangars with cool floors and everything spotless. They are great. If you are on a budget, dont look at them too closely.

For the ceiling, use metal siding. You can get cheap stuff if you check on local craigslist for manufactures near you. Im sure there are some within driving distance and often they have seconds or ordered wrong color bunches that they will sell cheap. Better than drywall and easier to install.

If you insulate the attic, make sure you do a vapor barrier under the insulation. With the truss system you have it may be easier and more effective to get 2" or more styrofoam insulation to lay between the trusses and not as attractive to pests as fiberglass.

As for the floor - epoxy is nice but if you have any moisture coming up because you didnt use enough gravel or a moisture barrier under the concrete you will have issues with the epoxy sticking to the concrete. In my opinion if you are on a budget it would be better to spend more on insulation than floor epoxy.

Doing what you can around the doors is critical to keep any heat you put in the hangar. Any wall insulation is wasted if you cant get a good seal around the doors. You might as well leave a window open if you cant seal the doors. I had a poor fitting door and used an old fire hose I cut and screwed to the door jam to make a pretty good seal but you will have to see what would work on your door.

Heating is the big expense. Electric is the most efficient using 100% of the energy for heat. Natural Gas is probably the cheapest but [ed. Removed politics discussion. dr]. If you use NG, it would be worth getting a unit that uses outside air for combustion and vents outside to avoid moisture buildup inside. The radiant heat may help keep the humidity in the hangar low.

Good luck and hope you are able to get a nice warm, hangar and not spend too much flying money!

 

[Dave S]

I am in the process of insulating my hangar as well. I have 1 wall insulated with 1.5inch foam board between the purlins, and will be working on the others as well. I used steal siding (https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...57523-01/p-1444448676857-c-5717.htm?exp=false) for the ceiling and blew in insulation. A couple of lessons learned there. First of all mark ALL of the rafters with the level of insulation you would like to include the roof. Do this before you do anything else to the ceiling. I marked what I thought was enough after the fact, and found it difficult to insure I had a constant level. I then put up a vapor barrier, and started with the steel sheets. I used scaffolding an built myself a deadman that I could jam into place to hold the sheet while I screwed it in. Other I know that had a lift, padded the sides of the lift and then raised the lift so the steel was on the rafter, and just crouched below. 1 technique I learned after the fact is to drill the screw holes through the several sheets while the are on the ground. This will help with straight screw lines, as well as helping get the sheets in place square. I used a string to try and get my screws in line. I started in the corner with my furnace hanging. I figured if I could figure out around the 4 support rods, the rest would be easy. For a cleaner, more seamless look I should have started in the opposite back corner, and worked my way to the front corner. Having helped with another project, I learned that the blow in machine from the box stores are not all equal, it may be worth looking at them before choosing which store gets your $$ for the insulation. The one I used, my wife (an angle) had to cut each bag open, break the insulation block down before she feed it to the machine. The second machine I used, you cut the blocks in half, then fed the half block into the machine. It still took some breaking down, but as you fed the block in, the plastic wrapping was cut away as you pushed it in. Hope this makes sense and help. Good Luck

 

[Oroyo]

I agree insulation is the best money spent for sure, but of course you need to goop up the roof enough so that it doesn’t leak first. With enough insulation you don’t need heating and cooling. For working in deep winter in a sealed insulated space all you need is a small radiant heater to put near you and you’re fine. In summer it will be a cool cave. Lots of led light and it will be a wonderful work space.

 

[Jjackh10]

Some really nice setups here but not super budget friendly. Sealing up air leaks is the biggest step followed by insulation. Insulation by whatever method is cheapest will be good enough. Last time I looked the old school rolls of itchy fiberglass was cheapest but that might have changed. I think the tin for ceiling and walls (if desired) is the cheapest option.

For heat a waste oil burner, wood burning stove, or converted 55gal drum, and a few hundred buck on a window mount ac will get you by, and can be replaced if funds eventually come available. Neither will maintain it in the 70's but they will take the edge off and give you something to go stand by occasionally. And their operating costs are pretty low.

Depending on your power requirements, it can actually be cheaper to run conduit on the surface. With a pawn shop hand bender and a hacksaw you also get that cool industrial look. Jacketed romex is pricey. EMT conduit, fittings, and boxes are cheap. And using a roll of #12 or #14 wire you can run multiple circuits in 1 conduit. This is how I did my last shop and saved me a few bucks.

I'm sure having recently completed another project you probably have some random building materials laying around. With a little creativity you may be able to utilize that stuff to save a couple bucks too. I think some though, price comparisons, and sweat equity along with a few thousand bucks will get you a significant improvement in livability.

 

[jeffw@sc47]

My hangar is a 36x48 pole barn I erected myself 25 years ago. It's been wonderful having the plane two apple-chucks from the back door and under roof. But it has not been without its shortcomings owing to the general austerity of the building itself and the budget I had to sink into it. I was able to get it built for a grand outlay of about 15k over the years - half that for concrete and the rest for lumber, trusses and siding/roofing (1990's pricing). Since then it has been what it is - holding up well but attracting bushels of grass clippings, wasp droppings and spider webs. It's lighted but not heated or insulated, has no ceiling, the wind blows easily under and around the sliding doors, a bit of rain drips through the skylight panels. In the summer I can sometimes hardly do maintenance on the plane for all the sweat pouring off my brow by 10AM. In the winter the tools can become too cold to touch without sticking to them like a kid licking a flagpole.

To make matters exponentially worse, I have now taken up woodworking as an additional hobby - and SWMBO insists that my turn in the climate controlled basement workshop (5 years building the RV-10) is now over as far as any activities that generate dust are concerned. Fair enough. Now I am embarking on a quest to make the hangar more habitable than a solitary confinement cell in a Japanese POW camp in 1943. The hangar will have to house the plane, me a lot of the time, and a slew of woodworking tools - and I want it kinda comfy, on a budget.

I'm researching ways to enclose the ceiling and insulate the walls without breaking the bank or my roof trusses. I've got lighting and electric figured out. I'll jerry-rig some way to weatherstrip the doors. Right now I am leaning toward steel roofing panels on the truss undersides (44" o.c.), batt or blown insulation on top of that, and 1.5" poly-foam and Great Stuff in between the wall purlin 2x4's. Heat looks like it would be easy to implement with an old oil burning furnace but I've had success installing a DIY mini-split in my barn-dominium and that route, while significantly more $$, would give me air conditioning as well as heat. I'm debating building a partition inside between the plane and the wood shop, or just lowering a surplus 35' parachute from the ceiling over the RV and letting the mess go where it will between sweepings.

I know the hive always teems with good ideas so I'm inviting suggestions on any aspect of this rehabilitation project. What you got?


View attachment 55247
Photo from 2022, when the hangar was also a paint booth. No extra charge for bugs and dust in the finish coat.

If you are seriously considering heating and cooling the space, insulation of the exterior walls and roof deck would be required unless you want to spend a lot on heating and cooling.

 

[Bill Boyd]

Well aware of the tremendous heat loss/gain when trying to heat/cool an uninsulated metal sided pole barn with drafty doors! I will be doing insulation of some sort- the question is one of budget and return on investment.

Regarding dust mitigation, I am reserarching home made sawdust collection systems/cyclone separators for all my stationary power tools. I have also looked into dust covers for the plane - 35 foot parachutes run about 200-250 shipped on Ebay. Cheaper than a frame wall to divide the hangar, and allows flexible use of the hangar floor dead space between wing and tail, but also cumbersome to drape and remove every time the plane is flown. Anybody seen a workable halyard system for raising and lowering a chute onto a plane?

 

[Jjackh10]

Well aware of the tremendous heat loss/gain when trying to heat/cool an uninsulated metal sided pole barn with drafty doors! I will be doing insulation of some sort- the question is one of budget and return on investment.

Regarding dust mitigation, I am reserarching home made sawdust collection systems/cyclone separators for all my stationary power tools. I have also looked into dust covers for the plane - 35 foot parachutes run about 200-250 shipped on Ebay. Cheaper than a frame wall to divide the hangar, and allows flexible use of the hangar floor dead space between wing and tail, but also cumbersome to drape and remove every time the plane is flown. Anybody seen a workable halyard system for raising and lowering a chute onto a plane?

I'd think 2 or 3 harbor freight tarps or a roll of visqueen would be cheaper than a parachute. Maybe a bit more cumbersome to place and remove. For sawdust collection I can't think of an economical option. Maybe re-purpose a swamp cooler blower (probably never seen one in your humid neck of the woods haha) to suck it out and spread on the farm haha. Even industrial cabinet shop systems leave a fair amount of saw dust in the shop. If i could reasonably cover the plane I personally wouldn't be to concerned with sawdust. It makes a decent sweeping compound for sweeping up everything else.

 

[msires]

Strongly recommend the mini-split over your other options - woodworking equipment has a lot of polished cast iron - table saw table, jointer table and fences, etc. and they rust almost instantly in a hot humid environment. You'll want the air in the summer to reduce the humidity as much as the cooler environment. I have an (insulated) 50x50x18 metal hangar with 3 24,000 btu mini splits. In Florida my highest bill in the Summer has been around $150 - pretty cheap hangar rent around here!

 

[Bill Boyd]

I'm limited in my power load by the buried service I installed 25 years ago from the house down to the hangar, with only lighting and air compressor loads in mind: 30A @ 240V via about 200' of wire (I'll have to open the sub panel to see what gauge I used). That's likely not going to run the recommended mini=split BTU capacity, but I'm going to have to be content with the limitation...

 

[JonJay]

Couple of things;

If you can run a mini-split, you get the added benefit of being able to run it in dehumidify mode.

For those considering a pole barn, too late for the OP, but doing “commercial” grits, running the first horizontally with blocking between, makes it a lot easier to insulate and build out later.

For the sliding barn doors, brush seals can be made to work. They are a bit pricey but not compared to changing out and engineering a sectional garage door. Jacor is one company and they have install guides for barn doors right on their web site.

For those that think metal siding is cheap, it has gone up a LOT in the last couple of years along with all steal products. In the meantime, OSB sheating has gone down.
Compare prices. Unfortunately with standard vertical girts, you don’t have much room for insulation. Poly board is great R value but really expensive. If your girts were commercial, you could use normal cheaper rock wool, but that shipped sailed 25 years ago. Sorry, not helpful…..

Again, for those considering a pole barn, do commercial girts. Your life will be much easier down the line. Also, insulate the roof while you’re installing it with metal building insulation. It will never be cheaper.

There is another product that I used on a vertical girt job, Prodex. Decent R value in a thin sheet full of bubbles. It worked well.

 

[msires]

Hopefully for 30amps it's 10 gauge. For that long a run, 8 gauge would have been better, but it's a lot more expensive than 10. That should be good for a 24,000 btu mini-split. Probably wouldn't handle the extreme days, but most days it would be adequate if you insulate/seal it well.

 

[Snowflake]

View attachment 55247

Some thoughts that come to mind looking at this.

1. I don't see studs on the walls like a conventional stick-build so if you want to have a finished inside surface that may not be an option without significant additional work.
2. That said, if you don't care about the inside surface, a spray-foam insulation layer would provide a few things in one go: It would seal any drafty overlaps in the outside panelling, it would insulate, and it would provide a vapour barrier to the inside. I'd recommend it even if you did have studs and were planning on drywalling it inside, just for those reasons. No need for a vapour barrier.
3. The roof trusses look like they're... 3' apart? That's an awkward spacing for any finishing. If it's 2' that's better as sheets of drywall or OSB would align.
4. Spray foam on the ceiling would work too, even right against the outside roof, but once done you'd have to heat that volume above the flat bottom of the roof trusses.
5. Really important to get that roof sealed before doing anything below it. Finding and sealing leaks after you have insulation and drywall in place is *not fun*TM. Maybe this should be #1 - Start at the top.
6. Door insulation is always tricky. You might be able to get good results by bonding sheets of the blue or pink rigid insulating foam to the inside of each panel. I've seen hangars with the three large sliding panels done that way and it does take the chill off.
7. Agree with previous comments about sealing drafts under, between, and around doors.
8. If the skylights are single-pane, you'll want to swap those out for double-pane e-glass nitrogen-filled if you don't want them to be sending most of your heat out to the world in winter, and letting all the heat in from the world in summer.

Overall it looks like you have a great place to start with, and lots of potential to shore it up into something even nicer... And you can do it over time.

 

[JonJay]

It’s a typical pole barn. With standard girts, like the OP, you have to build stud walls inside the structure, if you want a finished look like a normal building. There isn’t any short cut. Get a powder actuated fastener gun to secure the base plate into your slab. You don’t need a sill plate. You could use 2x3 studs if you can find a source that’s cheaper than 2x4 but I doubt it.
Last time I did this, 2018’ish, I used OSB. OSB was $10 a sheet. It then went to $50!
Now it is back down to $20 or a bit under. I re-roofed at that time and used metal building insulation. I don’t think you will have a choice but to spray foam on the underside of the roof or drop a ceiling.
As Rob mentions, if you don’t care about the look so much, get an estimate for spray foam. It still might be cheaper to build walls inside and go with rock wool.
I’d cost out all the options and prioritize what you want the finished product to look like.

 

[Bill Boyd]

The roof trusses are actually about 44" OC. Not much waste with 4x8 sheeting for a ceiling, which brings me to my next idea, courtesy of another pilot I flew to lunch with today. He heard the ideas I was bandying about, looked up at my hangar ceiling and said "Why not just get some 2 inch thick foam board and screw it to the underside of the trusses and tape the seams? Then you don't need insulation on top and you have a nice flat ceiling with no need to heat all the way up to the roofline?" It was a "you're a genius and I'm a doofus" moment. Pretty sure that's what I will end up doing.

As for electric load management, I will probably have to make sure the heat pump is cycled off before I let the compressor kick in or fire up the table saw - 30 amps is not much of a budget and I don't want a brown out to damage any motors. It's something I can live with as it would be a huge improvement over what I have, and upgrading it is more cost and work than I'm down for.

As far as finished walls, I don't have much need for stud/drywall finish (except for possibly partitioning off the RV from the wood shop area) but can put those in at my own pace, wall by wall, as Snowflake said.

I'll furnish periodic updates, and really appreciate the input from you guys!

 

[JonJay]

Most applications of poly board assume normal stud spacing. At 40”, make sure you don’t have issues down the road with sagging.
Don’t use any product with facing, like foil. It may, as happened to me, start to peel when it isn’t covered. Took about ten years and started to peel. Ugly mess.

Also, if you care, most residential codes do not allow open polystyrene walls or ceilings. They require a fire barrier like sheet rock. You may not care but good to be aware.

Personally, I wouldn’t be comfortable securing on 40” centers. But, the only experience I have is using it is under roofs or in walls that have normal stud spacing. It’s very light and rigid and may never sag, I just don’t know.
Good luck with your project.

 

[msires]

The easiest/cheapest way to deal with the truss spacing is to install 1x4's perpendicular to them at normal spacing. I prefer 16", but 24" is acceptable. Relatively inexpensive, has a nice wide surface for the where the sheets meet to fasten both sides.

 

[Bill Boyd]

Good idea on the 1-by's. I might know a guy...

Not concerned about code - it's a pole barn in the corner of a hayfield, and my homeowner's specifically does not cover it. Laissez-fairre.

 

[DanH]

Well aware of the tremendous heat loss/gain when trying to heat/cool an uninsulated metal sided pole barn with drafty doors! I will be doing insulation of some sort- the question is one of budget and return on investment.

Regarding dust mitigation, I am reserarching home made sawdust collection systems/cyclone separators for all my stationary power tools. I have also looked into dust covers for the plane - 35 foot parachutes run about 200-250 shipped on Ebay. Cheaper than a frame wall to divide the hangar, and allows flexible use of the hangar floor dead space between wing and tail, but also cumbersome to drape and remove every time the plane is flown. Anybody seen a workable halyard system for raising and lowering a chute onto a plane?

Bill, when I built the shop I installed two 24" explosion proof fans in the front corners, exhausting through blown louvers. I love 'em. Air intake is a pull down attic stair at the far end. Fiberglass dust, sanding dust, spray paint, whatever...flip the switches and go to work.

Here's a bit of sawdust...

Same spot, cleaned up for painting. Filter box is 3/4" angle, sized for eight standard furnace filters. Catches the paint overspray.

 

[JonJay]

Hey Dan - did you find your explosion proof fans for a reasonable price? I’ve searched over the years and never found a source that wasn’t really expensive.

 

[gasman]

As for electric load management, I will probably have to make sure the heat pump is cycled off before I let the compressor kick in or fire up the table saw - 30 amps is not much of a budget and I don't want a brown out to damage any motors. It's something I can live with as it would be a huge improvement over what I have, and upgrading it is more cost and work than I'm down for.

....................................................................................
I installed this https://minisplitsforless.com/colle...-230vi-o-sophia-series?variant=39538523766976 in my insulated hangar. It draws max 19 amps to cool and 17 amps to heat. It is an inverter, so the amp drew will very based on OAT.

Also, check your sub panel to make sure the ground is isolated from the neutral. The ground must terminate at the main panel This is a common mistake made with sub panels.

 

[Bill Boyd]

....................................................................................
I installed this https://minisplitsforless.com/colle...-230vi-o-sophia-series?variant=39538523766976 in my insulated hangar. It draws max 19 amps to cool and 17 amps to heat. It is an inverter, so the amp drew will very based on OAT.

Also, check your sub panel to make sure the ground is isolated from the neutral. The ground must terminate at the main panel This is a common mistake made with sub panels.

Apparently I did not know that 25 years ago - but I would not make that mistake today. A quick Look in the sub panel box reveals a single neutral bar, with grounds and neutrals all going to it. I need to get an additional bus bar and separate those out. The wiring is gray-jacketed 10/3 w/gnd, I believe it is common UF type with a 60C rating, so 30A is as high as I can go by code on the feed breaker. I will do some load tests later with a known load and see what kind of voltage drop is present, as I do not know the length of the wire run from house to hangar with any exactness.

The DIY mini-split I've installed this summer in my barn is rated at 28 MCA for the 36,000 BTU version. That seems to be cutting it very close. Their 18 or 24k models would be more of a fit for the service even if undersized for full heating and cooling. I think I can get by with less than the full recommended capacity since anything would be an improvement and I only find it unpleasant for about 6 months out of the year and even then just at certain times of day. I'll find a way to make it work.